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Old 12-08-2006, 08:45 AM   #1
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Lenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB User
Implants

I'm looking into one or more implants...one almost necessary for an upper bicuspid that is doomed and really beyond root canalling without "root lengthening", a cute but ugly euphemism for gum removal..
I'm concerned about the mechanics and saffety of the implant.

As we know, REAL teeth have gums attached to the teeth with stong tiny tendons making a continuous connection /seal between teeth and gums making the jawbone very much an internal structure.

As I understand it an implant uses a screwed in bolt that protrudes through the gum and is connected to a post and the eventual crown, the visible "tooth!"
So the net effect is that you are left with a rod of titanium/stainless/ or some mixture of these connecting the jawbone with the "outer world." I see this as an easy conduit for bacteria, viruses, or food from infecting the jawbone. I know that SCRUPULOUS cleaning with irrigation from water-pick like devices can keep the gross FOODS out but what of bacteria; the mouth is FULL of them?
I can't conceive of the gums making a bond with the titanium post to effect any kind of seal?

What keeps the jawbone sterile if one has implants? After all, an infected jawbone could mean the loss of MANY teeth.

Any thoughts?

 
Old 12-08-2006, 01:30 PM   #2
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Thelma-Louise HB UserThelma-Louise HB UserThelma-Louise HB User
Re: Implants

I had implants for 15 yrs - and had them removed for reasons I will mention later but when I did them the bolt was placed in the bone and the gum tissue stiched up over that and removed a week later and then I waited 9 months during which time the bone fused around the bolt and afterwards the post and bridge was attached. The reason infection did not occur is simialr to that of natural teeth - the bone and gum tissue stay snuggly against the post - obviously rigorous oral hygeine routine at home and frequent professional cleanings are a must. Also I believe it is the type of metal used that allows the bone to fuse to it - this metal is often used for hip replacements, spinal injuries requiring rods, etc. - its not usually rejected by the body as being foreign. However just like natural teeth - once bacteria starts to continuously invade the space what follows is similar to that of natural teeth - pockets, infection, gum recession, etc. Ill fitting prosthestics such as crowns and bridges usually are the cause b/c they can make it difficult to keep the area clean despite the use of floss threaders and proxy brushes. If even the dentist can not get to areas around a crown or bridge the likelyhood of an infection and eventual bone loss is greater. Many dentists now recommend that crowns and bridges be kept above the gum line leaving the implant post exposed to ensure it is easy to clean.

Personally I think implants are great depending on what they are being used for and the dentist doing them - obviously sterile conditions during the surgery are important. One or two implants are probably better than having 6-7 however. There are several studies about the strength or force an implant can generate on the jaw itself - some indicating that the angle of the implant bolt and its post can adversely cause an imbalance of the jaw - which generates a lot of force on its own - add to it something even stronger - and it was suggested this would cause permanent physcial changes to the jaw structure, altering function - causing tmj. This primarily occured when upper and lower implants were directly above and below one another - like in doing upper and lower front teeth.

I had my implants removed due to tmj - it was suggested by several dentists that the angle of the implants (very hard to control or determine during the planting) was causing a deep overbite - not to mention making it difficult to fit bridges over them. When they were removed the OS told me the lower ones (3) were fully infected right down to the bone but the upper 3 were very well integrated with the bone making it hard to get them out. But its over now so I'm not really questioning my descion to have them removed - but I must say they did provide a false sense of security in terms of tooth replacement.

If you are talking one tooth I would defintely say go for if you can afford it - find a good dentist or practice that does it where you can get the implant and temp done in the same office so you are not trapsing back and forth between one dr for the implant and another for the temp and perm prosthetic.

Sorry for the long post.

 
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Old 12-09-2006, 04:38 AM   #3
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Re: Implants

Thanks TL,

Quote:
When they were removed the OS told me the lower ones (3) were fully infected right down to the bone but the upper 3 were very well integrated with the bone making it hard to get them out.
Oh, that line made me weak kneed, if not weak bowelled.

I can understand the concept of the jawbone integrating to the implant blade for a tight fit but I STILL can;t grasp any possibility of the gum attaching to the post with anything appproaching the tight seal of gum to real teeth roots and real crowns <not "cap-crowns.">

Quote:
If you are talking one tooth I would defintely say go for if you can afford it - find a good dentist or practice that does it where you can get the implant and temp done in the same office so you are not trapsing back and forth between one dr for the implant and another for the temp and perm prosthetic.
Your discussion convinced me that I WILL be
Your discussion convinced me that I will limit my trial to ONE upper tooth rather than the one upper andd 3 lower molars...I'll use a detachable bridge on the bottom unless I SO love the work on top I can't resist..
I'm going to a dental school and LOVE their work so far. AND, hold your hat, they have a program where they are charging, get ready, $500 per implant including tooth removal, implant screw and then when ready, post AND crown. THat is 1/3 the cost for a root-canal post and crown. I was so startled at that price I almost fell out of the chair. I guess they need people (guinea pigs) to train students in what will be the NEW technology.
<Shhh, don't tell anyone :>

All the work involves extremely close supervision by teacher-dentists and the student are FAR more meticulous as a result...I imagine they are being graded on every move they make.


Now if I could ONLY rationalize WHY bacteria don't stream down along that post into the jawbone! I have a couple surgical steel implants in my ears and one im my right coronary artery but none of them stick out into the open air!

Last edited by Lenin; 12-09-2006 at 04:42 AM.

 
Old 12-09-2006, 10:42 AM   #4
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Re: Implants

This will probably be discouraging.

I'm 20 years old, and I had 2 implants put into my upper mouth at the end of June. (Not the actual tooth, just the titanium base.) I was brushing my teeth today, and one of them just completely fell out. What fun.

 
Old 12-09-2006, 09:38 PM   #5
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Thelma-Louise HB UserThelma-Louise HB UserThelma-Louise HB User
Re: Implants

Lenin - I tried to keep my response "real" both in terms of pros and cons - sorry if I was too graphic. My sister and I were just talking about this today b/c she is losing an upper back molar and feels the same way you do - if she is losing a tooth b/c of bone loss why would she be able to keep an implant in place - and if she does a bone graft - what will keep that from being eventually lost as well? Its a gamble. But the price you have is fantastic. I have a friend that went to a dental school in my area for a full mouth restoration with implants and removable dentures which could have cost $60K and only cost her $12K. I wish you the best of luck. PS - once you get one and the post is attached before the dentist puts the tooth on ask to look at it so you can see how the gum tissue has grown around the base or bolt. Also, fyi - after a year or so I developed an over growth of gum tissue around the implant - the dentist said this is common and a good sign of how well integrated the bolt and post had become. But it has to be trimmed a bit if this happens to allow for better cleaning and so pockets don't form.

Zapp7 - at this point the suregon should have been able to tell the implants were not intergrating. What I don't understand though is why it was exposed to begin with? Mine were covered by a fixed temp bridge and the dentist took an xray every other month or so to check their progress. Hopefully the dentist will be able to explain what happened - you don't get charged again to do another - do you?

 
Old 12-10-2006, 11:49 AM   #6
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Re: Implants

It was a false alarm. It's not my implant that fell out, it was just the healing cap. (I thought the healing cap was the entire implant)

 
Old 12-10-2006, 03:20 PM   #7
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Re: Implants

I have implants upper and lower and have had no problems with them. They are wonderful and secure. I think it depends on the person and the professional you choose. Implants have been around for 30+ years and the success rate is very high.

I believe that not all will have the problems that Thelma-Louise has had. Her case is very sad. I feel for her but no to offend her but I hope that you do not be frightened about implants because this failure is usually rare.

As for the poster who got implants in June and they fell out. Whew I'd be getting in touch with the professional who put them in. They did something wrong!
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Old 12-17-2006, 02:11 PM   #8
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Re: Implants

Thelma- I hope you don't mind if I ask you what caused the implants to need to be removed? I know you mentioned some were infected...you had all of these for 15 years? I really wish we were more like a solid 50 years or more into assessing the implants. I seem to find posts where people have only had them a few years...15 years is one of the longest time periods and I'm sorry to see yours did not hold up for you.

Last edited by noodles3; 12-17-2006 at 02:12 PM.

 
Old 12-17-2006, 05:06 PM   #9
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Re: Implants

I'm curious to know If people with implants are destined to have trouble with them at some point in time. I'm thinking about them too, but not If It means having them removed 10 to 15 years, or less, In the future.

 
Old 12-17-2006, 07:41 PM   #10
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Re: Implants

I believe the lower ones failed b/c of a poor prosthetics - bridges. My inital bridges which were done at the time of the implants chipped after about 8 yrs, my perio insisted I go to a different dentist then the one who did the first set and referred me to a prothedontist to have them replaced, they didn't fit that well and cleaning the area around the implants was very difficult - even the perio had problems doing it. After 1-2 yrs infections or abcesses started to develop, would get treated by perio and would return - this went on for almost 5 yrs and then bone loss started. Then I developed sever tmj and in an effort to eliminate some of the tmj pain decided to pull the lower implants despite many drs telling me they looked fine on xrays. Once the lower ones were out the OS told me how bad the infection was and put me on antibiotics for a full month. I chose to have the upper ones out feeling that this may eventually happen to them as well - the OS told me after he removed them they were fine but he understood why I did it. It didn't help with the tmj pain though. I paid just as much to have them removed as I did to have them put in.

I still think implants are great - again a lot has to do with the state of your gums and bones to begin with, the fitting of the prosthetics in allowing the area to be cleaned regularly and the dentist doing them - that he uses the right kind for you since there are different types available, that he is able to position them correctly (especially front teeth). When all factors are good chances are you won't have any problems. I did this when I was 30 yrs old and would probably do it all over again regardless of how it turned it out later on. I was told back then they would last until I died - if the bridges hadn't been replaced maybe they would have - I don't know. But 15 yrs wasn't too bad either. Keep in mind they don't even make the kind I had anymore - at one point the dentist had to track down the maker of them to get replacement posts and by chance found them in Germany.

I have been told by my tmj dr that I can have a newer type put back in once
we resolve the tmj problem - but I think I have spent enough money on my mouth to last my lifetime.

 
Old 01-01-2007, 12:07 PM   #11
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Re: Implants

I have 9 dental inplants. They were all done at different times. They are wonderful and I never have to worry about cavities. I did have two failed inplants done in Costa Rica. The teeth were missing for many years and there was not much bone in that area. I have since had my local oral surgeon in the US give me 2 bone grafts and he even put in a membrane in the area to support the two implants that I lost. I did have 2 successful dental implants done in Costa Rica, but there was hardly any bone loss and they were probably successful because of that situation. It is soooooooooo expensive to have implants done, but if you don't want to wear false teeth it is worth it.

 
Old 01-03-2007, 03:58 PM   #12
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Re: Implants

joyandpain- what is the oldest implant you have that's held up?

 
Old 01-04-2007, 09:56 AM   #13
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Re: Implants

I live in FT. Lauderdale, and there is a university called NOVA Southeastern...they have an amazing dental dept...they quoted me 1000.00 per implant..boy you are getting one heck of a deal...and you are right, there every move is watched and you cannot leave without a PROFESSOR..checking you out first to make sure the student did every single step.

 
Old 01-05-2007, 12:27 PM   #14
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Re: Implants

I just called the UOP Implant center out here in CA. It's a lot of red tape involved to get implants through them, and the cost is $1965.00 per implant, including crown. You had to be accepted as a training case (after an evaluation). If you were not accepted, you would be referred elsewhere. Have to go sign up at a certain time and wait for an assignment.

I'm supposed to get four maxilla and three mandible implants for overdentures and was hoping the dental school route would allow me to consider fixed bridges instead. I was so put off by their recorded announcement ("Do not mention dental implants when you sign up for an appointment") and cost that isn't all that much less than what I was quoted that I arranged a consultation with a prosthetic specialist elsewhere.

 
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