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Old 03-20-2004, 06:08 AM   #1
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Paine HB User
Living but not living

Anybody else feel this way? My depression has gotten so bad I live my life almost completely disattached to myself.

I know the board says that if you're suicidal you shouldn't talk about it and just talk to a professional, but from my experience, that only makes things worse.

I've been with at least 4 different therapists, and they all did more harm than good. They all just sighed and said almost in a huffy way, "You just need to change your attitude." And they didn't say anything more helpful than that afterwards either.

If I mentioned my suicidal feelings to them, they'd immediately suggest I go into a suicidal watch center. All I wanted was to talk about it (which I think would help more than any center), but apparently, I'm not allowed to talk to my therapists about my suicidal feelings. So I just say, nevermind I guess I'm not feeling suicidal then. And they say ok, and that's that. From my experience, therapists do more harm than good. They don't take you seriously at all. I desperately want to talk to somebody, but I don't know who to turn to.

My depression has gotten so bad it has overwhelmed my life and put me into a standstill. I stopped going to work, stopped going to school, and even stopped talking to my friends. This all happened about 3 years ago. So now I still have no job, I'm still not going to school, and I'm still not talking to my friends. I have nobody. I just feel everything is getting worse. Is there anything you guys can suggest besides talking to therapists?

Oh, and before you suggest it, I cannot turn to my family bc they are all really ****** at me for being such a loser right now (no job, not going to school, etc), and even though I am clinically depressed, they do not believe me at all. They just think it's all an excuse. So honestly, I have NOBODY in the world to turn to at this point. Nobody cares if I live or die. Is there anything I can do?

 
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Old 03-20-2004, 07:26 AM   #2
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Rick7799 HB User
Re: Living but not living

I have had a problem with therapists to. You are right, they don't help. I tried several so it's not like I gave up easily. I feel the same about my family, they just don't understand.

You don't say anything about antidepressants. Try going to your family doctor and get on an antidepressant. If the first one don't work try another. Unfortunately this is a trial and error thing.

People here do care about you. Yes, it's very disconnected but I have got more help here than anywhere else. We are in this together. People here understand the true meaning of depression.

In the meantime, stay on this board. Post back and let us know how you are doing.

 
Old 03-20-2004, 11:28 PM   #3
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Re: Living but not living

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paine
Anybody else feel this way? My depression has gotten so bad I live my life almost completely disattached to myself.

I know the board says that if you're suicidal you shouldn't talk about it and just talk to a professional, but from my experience, that only makes things worse.

I've been with at least 4 different therapists, and they all did more harm than good. They all just sighed and said almost in a huffy way, "You just need to change your attitude." And they didn't say anything more helpful than that afterwards either.

If I mentioned my suicidal feelings to them, they'd immediately suggest I go into a suicidal watch center. All I wanted was to talk about it (which I think would help more than any center), but apparently, I'm not allowed to talk to my therapists about my suicidal feelings. So I just say, nevermind I guess I'm not feeling suicidal then. And they say ok, and that's that. From my experience, therapists do more harm than good. They don't take you seriously at all. I desperately want to talk to somebody, but I don't know who to turn to.

My depression has gotten so bad it has overwhelmed my life and put me into a standstill. I stopped going to work, stopped going to school, and even stopped talking to my friends. This all happened about 3 years ago. So now I still have no job, I'm still not going to school, and I'm still not talking to my friends. I have nobody. I just feel everything is getting worse. Is there anything you guys can suggest besides talking to therapists?

Oh, and before you suggest it, I cannot turn to my family bc they are all really ****** at me for being such a loser right now (no job, not going to school, etc), and even though I am clinically depressed, they do not believe me at all. They just think it's all an excuse. So honestly, I have NOBODY in the world to turn to at this point. Nobody cares if I live or die. Is there anything I can do?
The answer for me was Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). I was on meds for many years before I found CBT and it cured me and got me off meds in a remarkably short period of time. CBT is not like other talk therapy. A good CBT therapist does not care much about your past or why you think you feel the way you do etc. A good CBT therapist knows they cannot change what's already happened to you but they can help you change how you deal with what happens in your life from here on out. It's all about using the tools to learn to think more clearly and accurately about things and once you do your anxiety and depression will miraculously begin to lift before your eyes. My favorite starter book on CBT is "Been There, Done That? Do This! by Sam Obitz. It is written from a sufferer's point of view and talks about how useless many therapists are talks about surviving life rather than living life them tells you how to change using the CBT tools. Many universities offer CBT groups for little or no charge as well

Billy
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Don't expect anyone to help you, if you won't help yourself!

 
Old 03-21-2004, 01:32 AM   #4
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Re: Living but not living

You mention therapy, but have you been on any meds for your dep? I know for many therapy is wonderful, but if you have severe dep. and it is chemical imbalance, like mine, I do need the meds. I have also learned many coping skills, but without the meds I get to right where you are right now. I feel hopeless, see no point in this life, cannot enjoy anything in life, well, you know all the feelings. The meds have been what's helped me for the last 7 years, before that I lived my life controlled by dep. I am so thankful for the meds, they have given me freedom from the prison of my own mind. There are plenty people here to talk to, plus we are all annonymous, no one has to feel funny saying anything. Many of us have times where we just don't see a point in living, which is not the same as having a suicide plan, but rather no motivation to keep struggling.

 
Old 03-21-2004, 02:54 AM   #5
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Re: Living but not living

Paine, I appreciate your post. I can really relate to what you're going through. Therapy didn't do much for me, either. As soon as you mention suicide, if they think you're serious, right away they want to stick you in a hospital with a thorazine drip. I'm not having any of that. I even tried prozac once because they really pushed for it, and I took one pill and got so unbelievably sick, so they said well, let's try celexa, and if that doesn't work, lexapro, and if that doesn't work, blah blah. I wasn't interested. I know pills aren't may answer. I think everyone who deals with depression deals with it for different reasons. For me, it really hit bad when I lost the only boyfriend I've ever had. Soon after I lost my best friend and my dog (to cancer). The last year I found out my ex had married a woman who had many of the qualities he swore he would never want and who had many of the things in her life he claimed he left me over because I didn't judge people who had them, even though I didn't myself!! I've been knocked flat ever since. I think I could take all the pills and therapy in the world, it won't help, because what I really want is love. I just want someone to care about me, to want to be my friend, but of course you can't walk around begging people "please love me, please be my friend!" So what do you do? I don't know the answer, but maybe cognative therapy is the answer. I haven't tried it yet, but maybe it could work for you. Just wanted you to know that there are others going through what you're experiencing, and you're not alone. Let us know how you're doing.

 
Old 03-21-2004, 09:13 PM   #6
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Man Apart HB User
Re: Living but not living

Paine. I hear your cries. And I definitely feel your paine. I can relate to everything almost to a tee. I feel awful that you have to live with this. Having your life put on hold. Ive been depressed for around 11 years, been through therapy, medication, group counselling, etc. My only advice to you. Is try everything. Even the irrational. Be aggressive and let these people your dealing with know your hanging by a thread. God I would be so furious if a therapist sighed at me and jus said "you need to change your attitude." Like, oooh ok, Oh I havent tried that, thanks genius. And what kind of therapist doesnt allow you to talk about suicidal feelings. Changed therapist right away. Depression is such a complex and delicate problem and this person is doing you MAJOR harm.

But anyway, your going to have to get intensive help. Cos it seems like youve been sinking much too long. I didnt hear you mention medication, so right now I think thats the next step. When talking to your doctor and therapist be thorough about what your going through so they can assess you as accurately as they can.

Im sorry your family isnt as understanding as they should be. I know you feel abandoned and dissapointed. Noone can really understand. Its not cos they do not love you its just theyre very much ignorant to what depression is and how it affects people. You would be surprised about the dumb stuff my mother tells me about how to deal with it.

Talk with us. There are people here on this board understands and can help. Im always around. I dont have all the answers. I cant sit here and know what your exactly feelings. Im in the same boat in alot of ways. And I feel like im at a point of no return. But you have a oppurtunity to stop the darkness before it spreads too deep. I know darkness seems to spreads faster than light. But you have to keep the the little light you have on. It will eventually get brighter.

 
Old 03-22-2004, 01:08 PM   #7
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Genabeena HB User
Re: Living but not living

Everybody out there seems to want to pass the buck on the topic of suicide. In here, my philosophy is, "if not us, then who?" I don't like the thought of my friends considering such an option, but on the other hand, if they are considering it, I want them to get it out in the open where we can address that.

I once met a young man who was the same age as me (at the time we were around 20). His family knew he was suicidal. His uncle, a friend of our family, wanted him to meet me. I wasn't sure what the idea was. I guess he just wanted to try whatever he could... in the hopes that some friendship would develop or something.

I was totally open to it. He was a really nice guy with severe emotional damage from his mother. But he didn't seem really interested in making friends. I'm not the pushy or outgoing sort. I thought, "he'll probably be o.k."

He wasn't o.k., you catch my drift? Oh! if only I could turn back the clock! If only I had known how close to the edge he really was. I would say, "Hey, I'm not used to being so forward, but will you go out with me sometime?" Anything, just to try to alter that outcome. Just to reach out in any way.

That incident changed me forever. People don't suggest it unless there really is something wrong. If we don't start taking responsibility for one another, who will?

You can count me in amongst the people who are saying, "yes, I care. You can talk to me about it."

 
Old 03-22-2004, 01:32 PM   #8
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Ninispjc HB User
Re: Living but not living

Gena, what a nice, supportive post. I'm sure lots of people here appreciate it. I'm so sorry you live with the feeling of losing someone and thinking maybe you could have done something about it, but believe me, it wasn't your fault. Lots of people think that the one last time someone reached out and someone was too busy, then that's why they committed suicide, but it isn't. It's years and years of feeling worthless and unloved and all that stuff. It takes a looonnngg time for it to build up to the point where someone wants to end it. Chances are he would have anyway, even if you had befriended him.
But here's my question, and maybe someone might even have an answer. We live in a society where most people adamantly approve of taking someone's life if they tick us off enough. If someone does something we consider intolerable enough, we put them in a chamber and fill it with poisonous gas, or we strap them to a chair and charge them with electrical current, or we strap them to a table and pump poison in their blood until they die. My question is, if we have the right to decide when someone else has forfeited their right to continue living in this world, if someone goes through life trying to be nice and helpful and a hard worker and a good friend, but just ends up irritating and annoying everyone, and no one really wants to be around that person, and everyone seems so much happier when that person goes away, then why doesn't that person have the right to decide that he's done all he can to be a benefit to this world, and the pain of having failed makes him so miserable, and in turn makes him make everyone around him so miserable, that he feels the benefit of going away permanently from the planet would outweigh the sadness or loss his death would cause? If we have the right to decide when another person has forfeited his right to live, why don't we have the right to decide for ourself when we are no longer capable of bringing anything but annoyance and unhappiness to everyone around us and therefore could best serve ourselves and other around us by just going home?

 
Old 03-22-2004, 02:44 PM   #9
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Re: Living but not living

Nini, thank you for your comforting words. You're right. I shouldn't feel resposible for the young man's passing, but somehow, I can't help feeling that I could have, should have done more. It was truly a deep deep shame. No maybe not so much my own personal shame, but in general, a shame it had to happen. I just can't adopt the philosophy that it would have happened anyway, because that's just my nature. But, thank you, none-the-less for offering such kind words.

I think your question falls in the category of euthanasia vs. right to life. Kind of a dark topic, but o.k.. I think that in the case of people who are maybe depressed, but otherwise healthy and think that they have nothing to contribute/ or no reason to go on, most people find the ending it option quite objectionable because even people who think they have no friends or family who care are usually victims of flawed perception. There almost always are people who are deeply affected. What if your friend or loved one just decided, "that's it, I've had enough, nobody loves me," and then just pushed a button and were gone?

There are some cases where I do wish we had better euthanasia options, but only in extreme torturred, terminal cases. For example, my husband had a friend who was a highly successful (world renowned, actually) accomplished musician. He was a husband, a father, and a grandfather too. He discovered he had a terminal case of prostate cancer. In order to avoid putting himself and his family through all the stages, and because it was so far progressed that there was literally no chance for recovery, he did end it himself. I think he should not have had to go that way. There should have been a better option available.

So do I think there is never any situation ever where someone should have the option of assisted suicide? No. I think it should be available in some cases.

Do I think that people should just be able to leave this world whenever they feel like it, by assisted suicide? No way.

 
Old 03-22-2004, 07:34 PM   #10
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Re: Living but not living

I don't think I'm talking about euthanisia v. right to life. I don't think you can separate out the issue of human life and whether each one has value or not. I don't think there's any difference between the death row convict, or the kid on the playground that all the other kids hit and beat and throw things at while the teachers pretend not to notice or an adult who can't connect with the human race. I mean, who gets to judge when a human life becomes no longer valid? A jury? A judge? I find it sort of silly argue against suicide when we support the death penalty so strongly. What it boils down to is human life can lose its value. The question is, do you have to actually commit a heinous murder for your life to lose value? No. I saw a crime documentary on a man who was executed for ****** a mentally challenged young woman. Is a matter of age? No. I saw on the same documentary about a 14 year old boy in GA that was too small to sit in the electric chair. They had to put him on a phone book before they fried him. But who gets to decide when a life no longer has value? Are we expected to go through an entire lifetime meeting people who say "well, someday someone will want to be your friend or love you. Not me, but someday someone, somewhere, etc etc etc." IU don't know, that seems ridiculous to me.

 
Old 03-23-2004, 07:06 AM   #11
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Man Apart HB User
Re: Living but not living

This is issue is very thought provoking matter I cringe to get into just because of its sensitivity and delicacy. And also how much of it applies to me. Nini, Im curious to know whether alot of what you are saying is basically relating to you and your situation. Nini is right Gena, you should not feel guilty that you werent able to save someone who you feel was reaching out. You cannot erase all the things that lead that person to that point.

Ill admit, when I ingested pills back in october alot of the motivation behind it was not being able to have alot of support and understanding from my family and doctors. But even if I did it wouldnt have prevented me for making that attempt. I would have reached that boiling point reguardless.

The issue between death penalty and euthansia. I think its two seperate issues. If someone kills a mass of people or is a threat to the lives of others that individual's existence loses value without question. The kid on the playground like I was when I was young getting rocks thrown at me like I was a animal, that kid isnt a threat to the lives of others. Now, I dont think there should be a local Dr. Kevorkian in every city. But i definitely do not look down upon anyone who makes the ultimate choice if their life becomes unbearable. People say its the "easy way out" no, thats the hardest decision to ever make.

I have never heard of a 14 year old being electricuted. I must have missed that but how I dont know.

Nini your right. I know ill spend a lifetime hearing people tell me, someday, someone, somewhere, sometimes, be patient. Ive been hearing that for 10 years. And there still is no day, noone, nowhere, no time, and Ive lost every ounce of patience i had. I cant help feeling chained to a intolerable existence. The only sense of relief I get is that if it does become too painful and severe, I have a choice. I have a option. A way out. Imagine if you didnt, omg. lol. Im not cynical about death as alot of people may be. Im appaulled with murderers and terrorist that kill senselessly. They devalue their own existence. But to someone who is suffering massively, mentally or physically. Death can be a gift. It should be a punishment to some. It should be a favor to others.

Like in my case, I cant help but to feel its more or less inevitable. Whereas a prolonge life isnt necessarily better, a prolonge death is much much worst. I just feel im prolonging a life that has perhaps already ended. But, I think with most people who have those thoughts its not nearly as severe. Suicide is the most sincere and intimate form of self criticism. It often can just be subsided with that individual changing his or her opinion of themselves. Or just being exposed to a new experience and perspective of life. But for me and many that opinion can and may never be able to change. Cos their life is and reality is constantly reminding them, they are worthless

 
Old 03-23-2004, 09:08 AM   #12
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Genabeena HB User
Re: Living but not living

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Apart
You cannot erase all the things that lead that person to that point.
No, you can't. But you can help them envision a brighter future ahead of them if you care enough.

In the words of Jim Henson:

"Life's like a movie,
Write your own ending,
Keep believing,
Keep pretending,
We've done just what we set out to do,
Thanks to the lovers, the dreamers, and you."

-an excerpt from, The Rainbow Connection.

-Sorry to be sappy, I just cry whenever I hear that part of the song.

 
Old 03-23-2004, 09:10 AM   #13
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Re: Living but not living

Ultimately it is your decision. Whether to die or to continue to go on fighting. There is not really, actually a lot we can do to stop someone who is determined to end their life. But, different people play different roles in life. Some contribute to unhappiness and people feeling abused and defeated. Others contribute to people gaining a sense of self-worth and dignity and try to make that fight easier. Some help, others hurt.

I am, have always been, and will always be, on the helping side of that. I have accepted my role as a nuturer in this world and my efforts will always go in the direction of encouraging people to have hope. But I don't believe in stopping there. As you two have pointed out, it can be more like a punishment to repeatedly be told, "someday, someday..." I strongly believe we have to do more than that, as a society, to help people who have been less fortunate develop a brand new sense of empowerment- to finally learn the skills, the coping strategies, and habitual behaviors needed to actually change the course of their lives.

I'm a teacher. It's my job to believe in the importance of environment and the potential of the human spirit to be healed. I have to believe that people can learn and grow throughout their whole lives, or else I wouldn't be a very good teacher.

I've witnessed these so-called adults you speak of who turn a blind eye to the victimization of an innocent child. I would much sooner get rid of the adult in that scenario than the child. We need to look those people dead in the face and say, "Wake Up! There is a child being harmed here." When I worked at the early childhood level, I earned a reputation in the area of conflict resolution and playground fairness. I was very vigilant. And I have to tell you that when you see relationships amongst a group of kids deteriorating, and one child in the center of it being victimized, and you do step in, and you show the group a new way of relating to that child, it can be extremely effective at improving that child's self-perception, their self-esteem, and their general outlook. It can change a person's future.

I know we have a tendency in this world to not catch it early enough. I know that sometimes, some people are never helped. But I will never say that a person's life is worthless because the world has failed to provide them with safety and caring. It will always be my place and my nature to say, "there is hope. Let's try to make it better."

It's totally, totally, totally, totally different than the death penalty for people who commit violent crimes. As Mannely pointed out, those people have been deemed a threat to society. Ideally it would only be used in the most extreme cases. In fact, it's my position that we should be working on finding proven effective ways of reforming all criminals instead of having a death penalty, although the death penalty is probably neccesary until there is another viable option in place. Anyways, that's an whole other topic in my opinion.

This is a very sensitive and complicated topic. But, if you're asking do I think we as a society should just give up on people who are sick of waiting for their lives to get better, I say absolutely not. We should be doing a whole heck of a lot more than we are now to help empower them as individuals and improve their lives in actuality. That's just my view. That's who I am.

 
Old 03-23-2004, 10:40 AM   #14
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kbell HB User
Re: Living but not living

I have done something so stupid to the one person who has supported me through 3 + months worth of depression. I accused him of cheating on me. I know I am being totally irrational and that I may lose or have already lost the one person who has seen me through some of the roughest times of my life. What can I do to show that I am willing to do what it takes to get better? I am with a new therapist and have started taking lexapro (waiting/hoping/praying) in hopes that it will work better than the wellbutrin did. I signed 2 pacts agreeing not to hurt myself. I still feel like I'm going through the motions of living. I've alienated someone I love very much who has been there for me when he had every right to bail. this situation seems impossible. I'm so scared but still hopeful. how long does lexapro generally take to kick in? a week? 4? I'm tired of being afraid and sick. I want to feel better but don't know how.

 
Old 03-24-2004, 04:14 PM   #15
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Genabeena HB User
Re: Living but not living

Nevermind......mistake.

Last edited by Genabeena; 03-24-2004 at 04:18 PM.

 
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