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Old 03-20-2004, 03:40 PM   #1
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fruitloop HB User
Question Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Hi All,
I decided that my meds had stopped working as was advised that i could either come off them or be given more to combat this.
Well i decided to wean off and give it a go.
So 10 days ago i cut my meds from 45ml of remeron down to 30ml to see what would happen? Well first three days was sickness and headaches but then all of a sudden i felt alot better for the next two days and thought "Great" its working! Then all of a sudden the last two days i have been feeling depressed and wonder whether to carry on cutting down (i was told to cut down by 15mg every 10 days).
I also take Diazepam when needed usually 10mg in the morning and 10 about 4 pm'sh.
Is this withdrawal? at first i thought it was (headaches, sickness) but then after 2 good days the depression returned so do i carry on weaning off or is the depression telling me i need the Remeron .
Its so difficult to know which way to go? Up or Down.
Has anyone got or had the same effects on withdrawal and is the depression that returned telling me i need the drug or is it all part of the withdrawal.

Regards.

A very confused Fruitloop.

 
Old 03-20-2004, 11:20 PM   #2
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billy7772 HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitloop
Hi All,
I decided that my meds had stopped working as was advised that i could either come off them or be given more to combat this.
Well i decided to wean off and give it a go.
So 10 days ago i cut my meds from 45ml of remeron down to 30ml to see what would happen? Well first three days was sickness and headaches but then all of a sudden i felt alot better for the next two days and thought "Great" its working! Then all of a sudden the last two days i have been feeling depressed and wonder whether to carry on cutting down (i was told to cut down by 15mg every 10 days).
I also take Diazepam when needed usually 10mg in the morning and 10 about 4 pm'sh.
Is this withdrawal? at first i thought it was (headaches, sickness) but then after 2 good days the depression returned so do i carry on weaning off or is the depression telling me i need the Remeron .
Its so difficult to know which way to go? Up or Down.
Has anyone got or had the same effects on withdrawal and is the depression that returned telling me i need the drug or is it all part of the withdrawal.

Regards.

A very confused Fruitloop.
Hi Fruit-
I was on just about every med and remeron worked best for me too but made me gain weight and have to sleep a ton too. I am happy to report that I am now off of all meds thanks to Cignitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). Look into CBT as it is very effective and if you really want to get better and work at it, it also works remakably quickly. My favorite starter book on CBT is "Been There, Done That? Do This! by Sam Obitz. I don't think I ever could have weaned off meds without the skills I learned in CBT and I was weaned off at a slower pace than you are trying. Good luck

Billy
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Old 03-21-2004, 01:26 AM   #3
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lori j HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

The first reactions were withdrawal, the depression returning tells you that you probably need to stay on something for it. I knew mine quit working, I was depressed & obsessively worrying all the time, so I knew mine had stopped working. I am on other new meds now. I just cannot go without, I have been diagnosed with severe dep., some ocd with the worrying thoughts that fill my head (when not on meds) and some panic too.

 
Old 03-21-2004, 04:30 AM   #4
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fruitloop HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Thanks for the replies.
I cut down again last night to 15mg for the first time and slept for 12 hours ! and thats the most i ever slept even when i was on 45mg i only got about 6 hours.
I have started to get a big headache but i had this last time i dropped for two days.
I know what you are saying about the depression returning but why did it take 5 days and why did i have 2 days of feeling good beforhand!
It did not make sense? surely the depression would have happened almost imediately and i would not of had the 2 good ones.
Thats why i cant get it out of my head that this remeron is actually working against me and i wont really know untill its right out of my system.
I exept possibly that i need medication but i seem all mixed up at the moment as its like a roller coaster ride coming off and is not giving me a clear signal.
I have been booked in for CBT but have been put on a waiting list for 9 months and have now recieved a letter stating that they have nobody at the moment and it could take longer!
I will go and buy this book on CBT withdrawal but what is the basics of what the book is saying and how did it help.
What also bugs me is the two doctors i see also contradict each other ,one says to come off in 2 weeks and the other says in 4 !
Oh well here's hoping i am going to go for it i guess i will know soon sure enough.
Thanks for the replies.

 
Old 03-21-2004, 09:10 AM   #5
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billy7772 HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitloop
Thanks for the replies.
I cut down again last night to 15mg for the first time and slept for 12 hours ! and thats the most i ever slept even when i was on 45mg i only got about 6 hours.
I have started to get a big headache but i had this last time i dropped for two days.
I know what you are saying about the depression returning but why did it take 5 days and why did i have 2 days of feeling good beforhand!
It did not make sense? surely the depression would have happened almost imediately and i would not of had the 2 good ones.
Thats why i cant get it out of my head that this remeron is actually working against me and i wont really know untill its right out of my system.
I exept possibly that i need medication but i seem all mixed up at the moment as its like a roller coaster ride coming off and is not giving me a clear signal.
I have been booked in for CBT but have been put on a waiting list for 9 months and have now recieved a letter stating that they have nobody at the moment and it could take longer!
I will go and buy this book on CBT withdrawal but what is the basics of what the book is saying and how did it help.
What also bugs me is the two doctors i see also contradict each other ,one says to come off in 2 weeks and the other says in 4 !
Oh well here's hoping i am going to go for it i guess i will know soon sure enough.
Thanks for the replies.
Fruit-
This is just my opinion, but if I were you I think I not not be in such a rush to get off the meds just for getting off the meds sake. That's why I was encouraging you to learn CBT first. That really sucks that you are being put off so long buy your medical provider in getting started in CBT The book I recommended is an introduction to CBT and does not go into any specifics at all about weaning off of drugs so if that is what you are expecting DON'T get that book. If you want to learn CBT it is a great starter book as it is simple and talks about the whole process from a sufferer's point of view. As far as the speed of your reduction, whether you do CBT or not I think slower is always better. Good luck!

Billy
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Old 03-21-2004, 10:12 AM   #6
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dagmarharris HB User
Re: For Lori....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lori j
The first reactions were withdrawal, the depression returning tells you that you probably need to stay on something for it. I knew mine quit working, I was depressed & obsessively worrying all the time, so I knew mine had stopped working. I am on other new meds now. I just cannot go without, I have been diagnosed with severe dep., some ocd with the worrying thoughts that fill my head (when not on meds) and some panic too.
Lori, what other new med are you on for your OCD?
~dagmar

 
Old 03-21-2004, 03:30 PM   #7
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cardinal HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Hi Fruitloop, I know what you are going thru! I , too, have gone on this roller coaster with doctors and meds. They are so quick to prescribe this stuff and then deny they are addictive. I was on Paxil for 5 yrs, gained 35lbs and went thru a horrific divorce and suicide attempt. I wonder if the paxil was part of it? I went off it and weaned but had severe withdrawals, finally after 8 months of weaning got off it. 3 Yrs later after more health problems and stress started Zoloft. Every doctor I saw wanted me on it so I gave in. I am very sensitive to meds, get severe diareha, nausua and flu like symptoms from them. It just seems strange that if our bodies go thru such hell to get on them how can they be good for us? then getting off the hell it puts us thru? I have a friend who takes high doses of ad's and she is suffering vertigo and has to leave work often. Drugs are good for some and as a means to recovery but when we depend on them to live thats where the problem comes in.I just want my body to get the natural stuff it deserves and that includes vitamines , exercise and positive thinking and ridding anything bad from the body,like smoking, booze,junk food etc. Its scary when they start prescribing these pills for children, thats where it all begins, if only parents could do the proper upbringing and love none of us would be in this predicament! Thats where it needs to be resolve, as children, not with drugs but education to the care givers ! For myself, just want to get in control of ME, naturally, so what if I am not perfect, so far haven't met one person that is close to perfect!
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Old 03-22-2004, 03:34 AM   #8
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fruitloop HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

I was told when i first went on meds that they are like a bandage round a wound that once heals the bandage can come off.But i think that after a while sometimes that wound starts to heal but you may be anaware of it until you try and take the bandage of to see.
Its not that easy to see whether it has healed up because of the side effects that you get from it so you trundle of down to the docs and say this wound is not healing so he perscribes you more drugs and then more and so on and so on.........
So thats my point , its hell coming off but you must try you will soon no if you need them or not as you slowly take the bandage off.
I remember some guy on here who said he felt like **** on remeron , came off it and felt great although 3 months later he did have to go onto something else but atleast he knew!
My mother is on about five different cocktails of drugs because each one seems to stop working so instead off coming off they just topped her up with more different ones.
I am not sure yet whether my wound has healed but i have cut down from 45mg to 15 mg in 15 days and i feel no worse then i did on 45 mg mind you to be honest i only feel slightly better at the moment but atleast i know that if i can hang it out on 15mg for 10 days and then cut to nothing i will know either i will feel alot better or they can try something else .
Brave or stupid? who knows i guess i will wait and see but a cocktail of loads of pills and wondering round like a Zombie is to me not the answer.
I hope i have not offended anyone on here , i wish everyone the best of luck with this terrible disease but you must fight and not just be another machine on the doctors conveyor belt!!

Good luck everyone.

 
Old 03-22-2004, 10:05 PM   #9
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studyin HB Userstudyin HB Userstudyin HB Userstudyin HB Userstudyin HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by billy7772
My favorite starter book on CBT is "Been There, Done That? Do This! by Sam Obitz. I don't think I ever could have weaned off meds without the skills I learned in CBT and I was weaned off at a slower pace than you are trying. Good luck
Hi Billy,

Can you tell me more about this book...I am very interested and might consider ordering it. How long did it take to see results in your opinion.

Thanks.....Scott

 
Old 03-23-2004, 12:50 AM   #10
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lori j HB User
Re: For Lori....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagmarharris
Lori, what other new med are you on for your OCD?
~dagmar
I was taking Luvox for the ocd, it worked great, it even helped my depression. I felt wonderful & full of life again, but it was not to be. I reacted to the side effect of nausea really bad. It continued to get worse instead of better the longer I took it. I tried going down to half a pill & it was fine for about 2 weeks, then the nausea started every few days, then every day again. I just couldn't handle the nauseous feeling 24/7, plus another side effect is vomitting & I did my share of that on the Luvox too. I go this wednesday to see what my pdoc can or will do for me next. Been at this med change for 6 months now, really getting old.

 
Old 03-23-2004, 10:48 PM   #11
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Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Hi Billy,

Thanks for your reply. Think I will give it a go. My anxiety began last August (just woke up with it one day) with a rotten miserable virus called labyrinthitis (inner ear infection). Anyway, I've been climbing out of the hole ever since and still get these terrible days of non-stop anxiety for NO REASON....it usually starts in the night. I cannot see any thought process behind it other than the fact that I was plunged into this by the vertigo....it's like the bug spawned this anxiety illness as a secondary thing I have to deal with now. I'm sure my thoughts must have some sort of power over this to at least reduce it all. I want to try something else like CBT and not just rely on Cipramil to take the edge off. Would love to say goodbye to the drugs.

Cheers....Scott

 
Old 03-24-2004, 01:34 PM   #12
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Elana HB User
Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

I weaned off lexapro slowly and have not had any problems (knock on wood). I took my last dose in November after finishing a cbt course this past summer. I highly recommend cbt and we used the Obitz book and Mastery of your Anxiety and Panic-Third Edition by Michelle Craske and David Barlow which focusses on panic disorder in my group.

 
Old 03-26-2004, 12:11 AM   #13
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dagmarharris HB User
Re: For Lori....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lori j
I was taking Luvox for the ocd, it worked great, it even helped my depression. I felt wonderful & full of life again, but it was not to be. I reacted to the side effect of nausea really bad. It continued to get worse instead of better the longer I took it. I tried going down to half a pill & it was fine for about 2 weeks, then the nausea started every few days, then every day again. I just couldn't handle the nauseous feeling 24/7, plus another side effect is vomitting & I did my share of that on the Luvox too. I go this wednesday to see what my pdoc can or will do for me next. Been at this med change for 6 months now, really getting old.
Lori, I am on Celexa for OCD and anxiety disorder. I have never had any nauseous feelings. I do have a pretty strong stomach. Is your stomach your weaker area? I don't believe Celexa is known for stomach problems...more sleepiness at first. Sleepy is way better than nauseous in my book. The tiredness goes away in a couple weeks.
Tell us what your dr. puts you on,
~dagmar

 
Old 03-26-2004, 02:48 AM   #14
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Re: Weaning off meds how do you know..........

Hi Dagmar, saw him yesterday, he put me on maprotiline, another tricyclic. I'm not too hopeful, I read the side effects, same as the vivactil & luvox I was on.

I do not do well on ssri's at all, usually have all the side effects of those, so there are only so many tricyclics left for me to try. My very first anti-d was amitriptyline & I had NO problems with it for 7 years til it quit working, now that's all I am having is problems with each med they try.

Is celexa an SSRI? I think it is, most of the newer meds are. Maybe I'll have to go thru each one of them to find something that works if the tricyclics don't. This is just wearing me out, one after another, then the withdrawals. UGH.
I'll let you & everyone here (lol) know if this one does not work~! I'm sure my screaming will be heard thru out the boards...

 
Old 03-26-2004, 08:42 AM   #15
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fruitloop HB User
Update!

Well i have been on the 15mg of remeron now for a week and it was exactly the same pattern as when i reduced from 45mg-30mg, that is first 2 days headaches and then 3 good days(hooray its working!) but the its depression again for the following days. Its a complete roller-coaster ride.
It was exactly the same pattern for both reductions, but i feel no worse than when was on 45mg!! but only slightly better.
So its crossroads time! 15mg-nothing and see or stick with it ? but i am definately not increasing.
My doc is none the wiser either but atleast if i can come off and i still get the swings then i can try anything on the other hand it might be a complete cure.
Who knows?
But i have come to the conclusion that remeron had stopped working a long time ago which was what my original question was about How do you no?
I feel i have wasted at least 3 months on this drug when weaning off was the answer not loading me up with another at the same time which is what originaly the doc wanted to do.
Wish me luck.
And the best of luck to all of you.

 
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