II'm sure my fear of his anger stem from my child hood...as my mom had a horrible anger management issue, and my dad was very angry, when he wasn't strung out. So in saying this, I've always had that fear of confrontation.
Now, he's usually a great guy in between stressful situations, and goes back to that loving, gentle and kind man that I married, but when the stress rises, he does a 360. And even before, it would scare me, but these days, it seems as he gets older, the more stressful situations we go through, it gets worse, and worse. These last few months have been nothing but stress... I'm sure he'd want to know if something he was doing was making me uncomfortable...I do give him that...it's just how he deals with it that makes me shut down.
This past week, Sannah, I was trying to discuss our moving situation, and I said that "we need to sit down, and come up with a plan", or something to that affect. His response was "You lost your opportunity to have a say in things when you left us". I was speachless Sannah...what do I say to that?
Sannah, but I don't have the energy to work on our marriage right now.
Amber, what do you say to that "No, I do have a say in our life....". I know you are trying Amber and the way that I see stuff like this is that it is gradual. First you recognize the problem, study it, know it well and then start to try to change it. I think that what you are doing to deal with this problem is perfect for you. You are trying to deal with it and when Ken doesn't cooperate you avoid him. Sounds like a good plan to me.
For me to stop the past fears from interfering with my present I had to tell myself when it was happening that my fears were coming from the past and that they were not appropriate for the present. It really worked for me. I told myself these messages while it was happening and afterwards too.
From my perspective I do not see Ken as this monster. I see him with a coping mechanism which has gotten stronger through-out the years because it wasn't challenged and actually cooperated with. Again Amber, you have always done the best that you could....
First off...I just wanted to clarify...that I'm not trying to make Ken out to be a monster. I hope that's not what it sounded like. He is a good man...and I'm sure others out there look at our situation and can sit back and think "what the hell is the big deal", but I'm not at that point yet. I realize that this is the way he copes...as you said, a coping mechanism. It doesn't make it any easier, still. I guess with time, and lots of practice. I think I've been evaluating my life these last few days...and I've realized that my life is surrounded by fear, Sannah. I wake up in fear, I go to bed in fear, I'm woken up in the middle of the night with fear...my life is nothing but fear these days. I am trying Sannaah, but no matter how hard I try, I'm not making much progress. And each day that goes by where another letter comes in the mail, or another phone call is made...that fear just rises. This really isn't a way to live...but what other choice do I have? Again, I'm rambling...my mind is going in every direction today..sorry.
Amber
Amber, I never thought that you were making Ken out as a monster. I guess it was reflexive thinking on my part because many woman do jump to this conclusion quickly with "men issues" (I guess I was thinking of whoever was reading it maybe?). I think that your issues with Ken are a very big deal. I see them as your empowerment. If you can get your power with Ken this will benefit you immensely in all areas of your life.
Fear - someone told me once that I was motivated by fear (before I dealt with these issues), but of course what you fear is at a totally different level.
Amber, you say that you aren't making progress but I see that you are. I see you as doing an inventory of your life right now and really SEEING what is going on. Identifying the problems is the first step. You are also taking care of yourself by staying at the hotel. This is huge - taking care of your own needs!
I guess the statement about being motivated by fear is true...because everything I do, Sannah, is because of that fear right now. The other day I made a comment to someone...that at that moment, (this is around the time the calls started) that I wasn't feeling fear...I just wanted it to end, no matter what that ending meant. But in looking back, it was still surrounded by fear...fear to keep going, and to keep going through this. Anyway, just another realization, I guess...that even when I didn't feel like I was scared, deep inside I still was...just for another reason.
I hope you're right Sannah...I hope I'm at least heading in the right direction. I'm trying, I really am...yesterday was actually an "okay" day...better than the day before at least, and then last night hit, and even more B/S...and again, it just brings me to my knees. So today, I feel like I'm further down the "progress" ladder than I was weeks ago. I'm still in this take two steps forward, ten steps back pattern. If I could just get these asses out of my life...for even a little while, I think I could maybe make some steps and actually get a head...but dammit, they're always there...in one form or another. You see, I can work on getting my power and self worth back with Ken, but these guys...I don't know Sannah...I don't know if I'll ever even have a chance with them.
It's just so constant...and so draining.
I hear you Amber.... Make some progress where you can..... I actually see you as taking 1 step forward and then maybe a few back but YOU made that step forward and the steps backward seem to be not in your hands/control. That step forward that you made with yourself is priceless and once you have learned something about yourself it can never be taken away from you. Any progress that you make with self-awareness, etc. helps you cope with things that aren't in your hands.
..... I actually see you as taking 1 step forward and then maybe a few back but YOU made that step forward and the steps backward seem to be not in your hands/control. That step forward that you made with yourself is priceless and once you have learned something about yourself it can never be taken away from you.
Hey Amber,
I agree with Sannah...you really are.....you're trying so damn hard, but are being held back. But as she said you need to remember how much effort you are making, and although people around you are pulling you back, that does not take away from how hard you are trying.
I hope and pray when you get some distance from these people that you can have more "okay" days.....and then your steps forward will be all about you. Because I believe if you were allowed...you could make it through this. I know that because I know you! You are one of the bravest women I've ever met Amber....if you had come home from that hospital...to no uncle, no slashed tires, no calls or letters......you'd be able to try and process some of this pain...instead of having to relive it. I hate that you have to keep going through more of it. I just hope when you guys leave...it will be over...I truly hope so Amber.
Thank you Sannah and Caroline. You guys are so good to me...I really appreciate your encouragement. I'm glad that you see progress...it's still out of "my" view.
So Sannah, I know that you said you've delt with Anxiety. Did you have anxiety attacks, or did you just feel anxious a lot? If you had anxiety attacks...what did you do to get through them?
I've had two full blown anxiety attacks today...before anything even happened. It's been sort of a crappy day on the emotional side...but nothing really happened before they came on. I'm wondering if it's from all the **** of the week just getting the best of me...but, this is the first time in years, that I've had the "full" chest and muscle tightening, hard to breath, heart racing, fearful anxiety attacks...and damn, it scared the hell out of me. And then a little while later, it happened again. And I've been feeling very on edge, irritated, exhausted, emotional, angry, weepy since. (Guess I didn't have to list all the "typical" feelings...sorry) I just want to crawl into a hole tonight, and hibernate for a while...but I know damn well my problems will still be there when I wake up. Sigh. Anyway, any suggestions on the anxiety attacks...other than taking a deep breath?? (I get that advice a lot...for everything...and for some reason, I can't figure out how to make that work!)
Thanks again guys, I do appreciate you being there for me so much. Have a good weekend ladies.
Amber
Amber, your self-awareness is really growing and this is huge progress!!!!! IMO no one can get better without self-awareness.
I am going to barge in here...sorry!
Sannah has made a very good point above. I have great respect for Sannah and her words are always right on target.
Self awareness is the big part. I never realized how much the fear of males in my life defined who I was...took years and one attempt at suicide to discovered what drove me and my life. I have lived with fear with three male relationships, one of which will be with me for life, but is much, much better than it ever has been.
My father...who at age 85, still scares me just by being in the same room with him
My husband...who abandoned me with an out of control son
My son...who terrorized my family home...he is dealing with his issues now, including his childhood and is in the Army.
Fear of anyone is not a nice place to be...I hoped when I married I had left that kind of fear behind me. But, I discovered that I just took it with me into other relationships, as did both my sisters. I have a very hard time with male relationships of any kind. I have spent the past 7 years finding common ground with one of my son-in-laws, who has a very strong personality, just his demeanor invoked fear in me until about 18 months ago when I finally began to find common ground with him. I have been in and out of counseling since I was about 15 yrs old...my mother finally kicked my father out...years too late.
Do either of you receive any kind of psychological counseling? If so, can you obtain counseling? Sounds like you both would benefit from counseling.
Amber, my anxiety never went to anxiety attacks. Let me think about this for awhile and see if I can put myself into this position in my mind. I am also sure that this info is elsewhere on the web or on this website. I think that there is a section here for panic attacks. This is new for you?
Hey Orchardlady! Haven't talked to you in awhile but I have been reading your posts. You are not butting in BTW!
Amber, I thought about this a bit yesterday. IMO anxiety attacks come when you don't feel safe. I guess you have a lot to not feel safe about but at least for a few years James is in prison. What do you think brought on the attacks over these last few days? Did you get to a point in your issues where now you are vulnerable to these attacks? I was also wondering if these attacks were from flashbacks? What I have learned over on the PTSD board is that when this happens just ground yourself in the present and pull yourself out of the flashback (the past). Remind yourself that you are safe now, etc. Maybe you should post this over on the PTSD board (maybe you have already, I haven't been there yet this AM). Hope you are okay.
Thinking about it, I think it could be part of this growing "self awareness" that you all keep talking about.
I think my self awareness is growing, which you all say is a good thing, but I'm not liking what I'm becoming aware of.
I've realized these last few weeks Sannah, that I have lost so much control over my life...and the control has been lying with all these men, including Ken.
I'm in a constant "fight/flight" mode, although, these days, the "flight" part takes the majority. Someone pointed out the other day that so much crap has happened in the last two months, that even on a day where nothing is going on...I'm still bracing for it.
I don't know, Sannah, I've been on this down-ward spiral for a while now. My days are either "okay", "bad" or "terrible", and the "okay" days seem to be getting fewer and fewer. It's been so long since there was a "good" day.
James is in jail, you would think things would start getting easier, but they haven't Sannah. I'm still running, the harassment continues, the threats continue, the actions continue, the letters, the phone calls, it's just too much.
Anyway, don't know if I'm making any sense here, I feel like I'm just rambling. My mind, it's going so fast these days, that I'm finding it hard to focus on anything. Sigh. Sorry.
Talk to you soon,
Amber
Thinking about it, I think it could be part of this growing "self awareness" that you all keep talking about.
I think my self awareness is growing, which you all say is a good thing, but I'm not liking what I'm becoming aware of.
I've realized these last few weeks Sannah, that I have lost so much control over my life...and the control has been lying with all these men, including Ken.
Sounds like ignorance is bliss... Yes, I could see how a growing self-awareness could make you feel more insecure. (Thinking back now I think this is what happened to me. My anxiety was the last issue that I worked on and I do think that my anxiety increased as I took more control over my life - very interesting!). You say that you have lost so much control over your life. Do you think that you ever really had control over your life and that now you are just aware of it? Awareness is the first step to gaining control. I know that many things you are not in control of but there are many things that you can be in control of and if you can learn this it will benefit you immensely.
Do you think that you ever really had control over your life and that now you are just aware of it?
Good question, Sannah. I feel that I've had more control than I do now...or, maybe like you said, maybe I was ignorant to the fact that I didn't have any control. Maybe I had "choices"...which I still have, but one choice over the other, isn't a good one or a safe one at this point...so maybe I chose to hand over my control? I don't know Sannah.
I chose to go back home, and stay in the RV. And my uncle caused that whole ordeal...and so I chose to stay in the hotel.
But the things that I've realized about the control, and it being in thier hands...are things like the rape, the pregnancy, the slashed tires, the letters, the phone calls things like that that I have no say in. Sure, I can rip the phone out of the wall, I can shred the letters, but they are still coming.
Last week, Ken was very irritated, because the baby had kept him up the night before. He called and said to let security know that he was coming up. Five minutes later, he's at my door, dropping the baby off, because he wasn't going to be kept up another night. At that point, I had been up for over 30 hours. The next day was Tuesday, when I had my therapy appointment...this was also the first time I had left the floor since the calls started...and of course, my son was with me, and I was a damn nervous wreck. I get to the car, load him up, get in, and then realize my car key is not on the key ring. So, we go back to the hotel, search for the key, and it's no where to be found. I call Ken on his cell to see if he had moved it for some strange reason, and his answer was "yes". Like no big deal. I ask him where he put it, and he said it's here with me, that I don't need to be driving around...especially with his son. What the hell is that?? So he just up and takes my car key...simply because he's mad at me for still being here in the hotel. And so it made me realize that I don't have control, even when I do my damndest to take control. I tried separating myself from the hell that's going on, and yet, it's followed me. I'm tired of running Sannah, I'm so damn tired of it.
I look at my relationship with Ken, and the more **** that he pulls, the less I can see working through it. The less I even want to put into working through it. He keeps using my kids and my "mental condition", etc against me. I'm just done, I'm done fighting.
Sigh.
Amber
Hi Amber....
Just wanted to say that I really think Ken should be in these therapy sessions with you sometimes. It seems like nothing short of a brick thrown at his head is going to make him realize the impact of his behaviour. Certainly, you have tried, with no success. Its amazing how people in our lives will listen to strangers more than us. You said in the past he is not keen on the idea of going...I would do anything, even "trick" him into going.......tell him the therapist wants to see him, anything.....because once he gets in there, maybe she can say something to make him wake up and understand whats going on, and his part in things. He really just wants to bury his head in the sand and pretend nothing has happened. That man who came to talk to us, is not the one I am hearing about now. I know he's in there, but he needs a big wake up call.
I am sorry his behaviour Amber is making things worse for you.....and sadly although I thought before that you were not able to deal with him first and foremost, now it's almost as if he's giving you no choice. He had no right to take your keys, or to drop off your son unexpectedly like that, at a hotel, when you werent prepared for it...he's not thinking rationally, and his coping mechanisms leave alot to be desired right now. I only say this Amber, Ken is looking out for his needs right now. So you need to do the same. He thinks if he stomps his feet long enough, you'll come back and go back to normal, like its something you can control. But it doesnt work that way. And he has no idea that each time he does something, he's chipping away pieces of your love for him. I'm sorry, I shouldnt be so harsh...but its frustrating when I see that there is so much he could be doing for you...and is just doing the opposite. Sigh.......
Do you have a therapy appointment tomorrow?
Hang in there hon....
Caroline xo
Hi Caroline,
I agree 1000% that he should come to counseling with me. I wish he would. I really do. I think, if not to even talk, but to just listen...and get a better idea of what I'm feeling and going through.
We did have a good conversation today, though. It's about damn time. We did a lot of talking, in a coffee shop here at the hotel. It was a very emotional conversation, and we both cried for most of it. Last night during our daily "argument", we were talking about where we were going to move, and I said that "I wasn't going anywhere with him that I couldn't get away". That comment, really shook him up...and I think realized how much of an *** he's really been. He said that what I said was probably the most "hurtful thing that he could have heard from me" because he didn't realize that his anger was affecting me in such a way. So, we talked for a long time, and I was very honest with him about everything that was on my mind. I'm hoping Caroline, I'm hoping things will change. This was the best conversation we've had in a long time...maybe, he'll get it.
So, I switched rooms today, and so far, no phone calls. I feel that today, although started out ******, I at least hopefully made some progress. Hopefully, tonight will just be quite, and stress free.
