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Old 08-27-2007, 06:44 AM   #1
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carsam?

where are you?
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:46 AM   #2
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Re: carsam?

oops double posted....

Last edited by mary09; 08-27-2007 at 10:50 AM.

 
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:47 AM   #3
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Re: carsam?

Hey D.....
I responded earlier to your threads....and didnt even see this one!!!
I rarely have threads for myself...usually just piggyback on everyone elses.
I am around.....havent been posting much anymore.....as things are much the same....so I dont have anything really different to say with regards to myself.
As I said on your thread, my mom is picking up a prescription today for AD's...so I think that's positive. Mind you, if it says anywhere on the little pamphlet that it could cause weight gain, the deal will be off. You know how she is about her weight.
Other than that, things are really busy these days D, work is very very hectic right now...and so I'm just juggling everything as best I can. To be honest, I said everything is the same, but not really. I've been feeling really anxious these past weeks....and I'm not recovering well from those last episodes with my mom. Maybe I just said "everything is the same" because I dont want to deal with things. But these days I feel like I am just "going through motions", you know? I'm on autopilot these days, doing everything for everyone, meeting everyone elses needs but my own, as Sannah would say. And I worry some days cause sometimes even when everyone around me is in an "okay" mood, I'm still not. That's different for me. I'm back to being peacemaker, peace"keeper"....all that stuff. I know it's not right...and while I cant seem to change it....I just dont post about it anymore. I'm considering asking my doctor for some anxiety meds....cause some days, I feel like I could jump out of my skin from all the "juggling"....other days I just feel blah. Today is an "okay" day.....but my days are "okay" at best.....they never quite get to "good".....
Anyways, that's it with me hon.....I'm really so very glad you're back, I've missed our little "group chats"....
Hope to hear from you soon!
Love, Caroline xo

 
Old 08-27-2007, 10:48 AM   #4
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Re: carsam?

oops triple posted!!! ARGGGHH!!!!

Last edited by mary09; 08-27-2007 at 10:56 AM.

 
Old 08-30-2007, 06:14 AM   #5
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Re: carsam?

Carolyn, I am taking this back to your thread. I think that you are actually getting through to your mom and I think it is because you are changing. You are not so willingly being the rug and it is being communicated. I think that it is very interesting how uncomfortable you were with this new attention that your mom was giving you. Any thoughts on that?

 
Old 08-30-2007, 06:20 AM   #6
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Re: carsam?

OMG Caroline, this is really you!

Sun is in 12 Degrees Cancer.
Very emotional and sensitive, you have an intuitive understanding of the "*****" around you. You tend to be quite generous, giving, loving and caring, but only when your own needs for emotional support, love and security have been met. If they are not met, you tend to withdraw into yourself and become very insecure and selfish. Your home and family (especially your mother or the person who played that role for you early on) represent security for you and thus assume a larger-than-life importance. Very sentimental, you have vivid and long- enduring memories of the past. No matter how well adjusted you are, you will always need a secret quiet place of your own in order to feel at peace. Feeding others can give you great pleasure you would enjoy being part of a large family.

Moon is in 16 Degrees Pisces.
You have strong feelings and are extremely sensitive. It would help if you had a thicker skin -- you tend to react emotionally to every situation you come across. Kind, gentle and considerate of the feelings of others, you are good at taking care of the sick, wounded and helpless. But you tend to absorb the energy of others -- so avoid those who are always negative. You have a rich, creative and lively imagination, but you should be careful not to spend all your time daydreaming. Very intuitive, you have good ESP and may be quite clairvoyant or psychic. Remember that you too have the right to get what you want from life. If you are always defensive and kowtowing to others, people will take advantage of you and exploit you.

Mercury is in 23 Degrees Gemini.
Your mind is active, quick and agile. You are very restless and you get bored easily. Unless you receive constant mental stimulation, you become extremely nervous and begin to act in an unstable manner. You are probably a good student because of your natural inquisitiveness. You also love to travel. Your learning tends to be superficial, though, because you have a relatively short attention span. Try to develop the mental discipline to finish what you start. Also, you tend to talk on at times seemingly just to fill space -- make sure that your conversation has some substance to it or others will start avoiding you.

Venus is in 27 Degrees Taurus.
You are known to be a warm and affectionate person, and you tend to form long- lasting attachments. The reverse of this is that you can also be quite possessive once you have made a commitment. The beauty, luxury and comfort of your surroundings are important to you and you will devote much time and energy to making your home just right. Beware of your tendency toward self-indulgence, especially with respect to eating incorrectly. You also need outside stimuli to get you in gear When things come too easily for you, you can be lazy and indolent.

Mars is in 01 Degrees Sagittarius.
Your every action is motivated by high moral standards and ideals. You will work very hard to improve the lot of the world at large, but you demand action about it -- you do not like to just sit around and talk about doing it in an abstract manner. You like to be where the real action is. You resist mightily any attempts to limit your freedom and you will assist anyone who feels put down and restricted. You are extremely restless by nature -- physical exercise is very important to you if you would maintain your health.

 
Old 08-30-2007, 07:37 AM   #7
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Re: carsam?

Hey Sannah!!!!
Thanks for this!!! You're right, it is very like me.....a couple of things are off....but man, that "MOON" one is dead on.

"Avoid those who are always negative"....and "you too have the right to get what you want in life".....those things really stood out for me....

And yes, you are correct, I did feel extremely uncomfortable when she did that....why is that? I just figured it's because I'm obviously not used to anyone thinking about "me" in that respect, that "I' could use some cheering up, or some support. OR maybe also that because of all the years of these "episodes" I've built her up in mind, that she just doesnt care, that I can actually have issues of my own..... I've engraved this in my brain, due to her actions and words of course, and the fact that I know she "knows" she is horrible to me, and still does it. I think she threw me off by being shall I say "thoughtful and supportive".....she definitely caught me off guard. You know, it was just the thought that meant something to me. Just the acknowledgment that my feelings "matter", it IS a big deal. And yes, it strangely made me uncomfortable....not in a bad way of course....but I was having a very "anxious" day yesterday, and honestly it couldnt have come at a better time. I dont know Sannah, what do u think?

Thanks again for the chart, very interesting!!
Love, C

 
Old 08-30-2007, 08:08 AM   #8
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Re: carsam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carsam View Post
I have this ridiculous need to keep everyone at "peace"...because I cannot stand tension. I so very much wish I could lessen this. Because in the end, nobody cares but me. All the efforts I go to, and if they want to be miserable, they will. If they want to scream and yell, they will. But I will be the one left upset at the end. So do I wish I could just "let it go"? Absolutely! Can I do it? Not likely at the moment...even though I know doing so would make things so much easier for me.

But you know what, that is part of my personality. I care too much, I take on too much responsility for other peoples happiness.....that's part of who I am. And although it's extreme, it is part of me.
Caroline, you asked how to work with parts of your personality. Above you say that you have this need to keep everyone at peace because you hate tension. So I guess here the part of your personality is the low threshold for tension? Instead of trying to beat back the tension how about escape it? I see you as this firefighter desperately trying to beat back flames in a volcano. Wouldn't it just be best to escape the volcano? If your family wants you around then they need to behave so that you will hang around. I think that your mom is perking up already. You can influence your environment you know. You can place demands on your family.

About you being uncomfortable with the attention from your mom. Do you think that it might have made you uncomfortable because this behavior sort of steps outside of the roles that you two have with each other. You are the comforter, not her. Sounds like you handled it well, though, and took the attention!

When I was a teenager I had raging cramps one day and I was in so much pain. We ran out of meds and my mom was so concerned and ran off to the store to get some meds for me. I just stared at her. "Who was this woman who was suddenly, for the first time in my memory, concerned about me".

Last edited by Sannah; 08-30-2007 at 08:10 AM.

 
Old 08-30-2007, 10:11 AM   #9
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Re: carsam?

OR maybe also that because of all the years of these "episodes" I've built her up in mind, that she just doesnt care, that I can actually have issues of my own..... I've engraved this in my brain, due to her actions and words....

wow C, that's good insight, girl!!! i think we both did this, A LOT!! and it's not REALLY that bad, or how we perceive it to "really" be, when it comes down to it. i mean, even sannah's mom did good things for her once in a while (and sahhah, by her own admission said her mom was mostly 'neglectful,' not anything else. i also think that with time, and as we age, and become mothers ourselves (although i'm not one yet), we begin to see our mothers as more than just "mothers"--maybe we start seeing them simply as other people who were/are having their own problems/issues/illnesses/disorders/dysfunctions of their own. at least that's what i experience.

but i took a different route than you did in dealing with my mom's emotional abuse--because that's what it basically was. being sensitive myself, i absolutely could not stand tension, and i could not say or do anything to diffuse it (between her and i). no matter what i said wasn't good enough, even though i had the best intentions at heart. so, instead of keeping the peace, like you're doing, i (maybe subconsciously) distanced myself from her, at first physically, by moving away, and then emotionally. this last part was as difficult as hell on earth sometimes, but again, with time, it became easier. and also with time, i saw that she started to somehow respect me more because i wasn't willing to take her crap any longer.

at first, there were accusations, such as her saying, 'you're not behaving like a daughter to her mother'; ' i can't believe a daughter would do s.thing like this to her own mother," "what did i ever do to you to deserve this," "you obviously don't care at all abuot me or your father," and so much more, to make me feel guitly for once in my life standing up to her. at the time, these words hurt so much that i cried and cried and wished i had my grandma back, so that i could talk with her like i did when i was a child. i still needed a mother, but at the same time, i couldn't take what i was being given--what she was able to give me totally contrasted with what i wanted to be given (the reassurance that my viewpoints mattered, that i mattered, that i was a "good" person, that my intentions were genuine and from my heart, and were not at all 'bad' or 'evil' the way they were interpreted).

i don't really know what changed in her, but i think she realized that "this time around" i wasn't going to "go back" anymore....to go back to take in more and more and more of her toxic darkness that she kept spewing in my direction, b/c she had nobody else to unload to. since then, she's really become nicer, more agreeable, and more respectful. although she still talks about her problems and how tired she is of it all, i've been trying, and succeeding, i may say, in not taking it to heart so much. i've heart and i've read, and sannah helped quite a lot in this, to really internalize the reality that I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HER LIFE, OR FOR HOW SHE FEELS. if she wants to make a small improvement in her life, SHE CAN, and it is all up to HER, not to me. the FACT is, that even if i wanted to, I COULD not do it. SHe is the the only one who ever could/can. i know that if she would ever try to let go a bit (she is also a control 'freak' by the way), she let go, but she doesn't think she can right now, esp. b/c of my father.

in a way, i think that my father's situation is giving her something to do, besides her work, something to live for, something to think about, something to care for...even though it makes her feel tired as hell, and has made her social life non-existant. she never takes time for herself; not that she ever did. i tried (and my sister too) to tell her to take it easier, but she wouldn't. she thinks she is the only one who can "save' my dad from an early "death" or from suffering too much. she takes it ALL upon herself, so much so that all the nurses there always wait to see what she wants to do before they actually decide what to do about my dad.

anyway, this just to tell you how i managed to "get away" from under my mother's toxic presence. and it's been good for my mental health. although, i still have times where i do miss talking to my "mother," b/c she's the only one i have in this whole world. but, what can i do. sometimes, i manage to talk to her about things; most of the times, i don't. but that's how things are. and my acceptance of it has been one way to save a bit of my sanity.

i love you very much, C, and i understand you more than you think.
D.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:42 AM   #10
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Re: carsam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannah View Post
About you being uncomfortable with the attention from your mom. Do you think that it might have made you uncomfortable because this behavior sort of steps outside of the roles that you two have with each other. You are the comforter, not her. Sounds like you handled it well, though, and took the attention!

When I was a teenager I had raging cramps one day and I was in so much pain. We ran out of meds and my mom was so concerned and ran off to the store to get some meds for me. I just stared at her. "Who was this woman who was suddenly, for the first time in my memory, concerned about me".
Sannah, this is so true!!! I do feel we stepped out of those roles for that moment in time....and it truly now when I look at it was refreshing. It was "as it should be", you know? And you're right, "I" am the comforter, I guess when we become adults, being the "comforter" can be a two way street....as Dakota says, we can see our parents as individuals, with issues, rather than just parents.....I'm used to being "there for her"....but to have her acknowledge that yesterday really was nice. I just hope that it wasnt a one-off thing. You know it's funny, I'm thinking of something Amber said, which in a different way is the same for me. She said (cant remember the exact words)....but that its sad that the worst has to happen before people listen to you, she was referring to Ken. I'm thinking the same now....I have been really low this past week, and feeling sick with migraines.....so I'm thinking....I have to be sick before she realized that I "matter" as well. I know I should be grateful for this effort on her part, and believe me I am.....but I just hope it doesnt only come when I'm not in a good place.....oh well, its something to work on eh Sannah? I'm trying hon...I really am....with all of your help....dont give up on me okay?
Love,
Caroline xo

 
Old 08-30-2007, 10:46 AM   #11
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Re: carsam?

hey C,

about your mom being on Effexor--that's what i'm on. at the begining (about ten years ago) this was my lifeline!!!!!!!! i thought the world opened up to me and i saw it in all its glory for the first time since i was about ten years old. over the years (but it's been a long time, as you can see), i've had to add another med to it, cuz it sort of lost its "power.'

anyway, as all AD's, this one's gonna take about 4-6-8 weeks to take full effect. the first two weeks are the hardest in terms of the body getting used to it. at least that's how it is for others (i don't even remember how it was for me, b/c it was sooo long ago). this one acts on two different chemical pathways in the brain (sertonin and norepinephrine), and it's an SSNRI (selective serotonin & norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor). it stops the chemicals from going back into the neurons too fast (which is one theory of what causes depression), so it's supposed to let them stay longer in between the brain nerve cells, to give us that "good" feeling. this is a very simple explanation, but i think it covers it. this med is also good for anxiety and panick disorders, and that's why my first pdoc ever put me on it (used to have debilitating panick attacks, as you know). i must say i haven't had one in years and years!!!!!!!

it's incredible that your mom relented to this!!!!! truly, it is!!
God bless, and i hope she will continue, despite those first weeks or so...and i hope she's being started with the smallest dosage (35.7 mg.) and go on from there. i wish much, much luck to her with this. it's a new direction for her, and i hope to God it will work, b/c it may lessen the burdens she;s constantly placing on you.
love ya,
D.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:53 AM   #12
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Re: carsam?

Dakota...
Thanks for your message...and taking the time to write out that story. I really appreciate you explaining your relationship with your mother, because it makes me think about things, you know?
I want to say firstly that I'm proud of you for how you've handled your relationship with her.....it has caused you alot of pain...but in the end, reading about how you feel about your mother "today"....tells me you couldnt have handled things better, for yourself, for her, for your relationship as mother and daughter. Your mom and my mom are similar too in that your mom is all about "your dad"....and my mom is all about "her family". Both will put their "centers" over themselves....and both will take their stressed and bring them on down to their daughters. Mother-daughter relationships are so very complex....they truly are.
Some days D, and more often lately when I came back from my visit to Western Canada, I wish, I wish I could relocate. With all these "episodes"...I've just been so much more "less tolerant" of it all. I dont just "move on" after they happen. I do feel like I'm making some progress in that at least I'm understanding things better, (thanks to all you guys)....I just have to put things into practice. That's the tough part. Anyways, there are days when I feel I could "do it", I could get that "distance"...but then I think of my son. My parents adore him with all their being....and vice versa. Outside of all the **** going on, their relationship is absolutely beautiful....they are so close, they spend time together all the time...and I could never cut them off from seeing each other. Some days when I get so angry, I want to, I want to never see them again....but I could not do that because of "N". I have no brothers or sisters, my husband has two sisters...that's all we have. "N" has no brothers or sisters, no cousins, poor thing, he needs all the family he can get. So for me distancing is tough.....especially when you live two doors away...it's almost all or nothing, you know? I wish I could find a way to get even a little "distance"....I know it would be so good for me and my own family unit. If you have any ideas....let me know.....I could sure use them.
I hope one day I can have the same understanding of my mom that you do with yours....I can see more and more, how you "were" at one time, where I "am"....and you really do understand. What I've learned about myself these past few months, I owe to you, Sannah and Amber.....but what I've learned about my mom I owe to you...dear friend.......
I so missed you while you were gone....and am so happy you are back D. I love you also, you have a special place in my heart...you all do......
Caroline xo

Last edited by mary09; 08-30-2007 at 10:55 AM.

 
Old 08-30-2007, 11:08 AM   #13
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Re: carsam?

Caroline, I think that you can get some emotional distance from your mom while your son still sees her.

 
Old 08-30-2007, 11:13 AM   #14
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Re: carsam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota_Skye View Post
i don't really know what changed in her, but i think she realized that "this time around" i wasn't going to "go back" anymore....to go back to take in more and more and more of her toxic darkness that she kept spewing in my direction, b/c she had nobody else to unload to. since then, she's really become nicer, more agreeable, and more respectful. although she still talks about her problems and how tired she is of it all, i've been trying, and succeeding, i may say, in not taking it to heart so much.
Dakota, you have come so far with your mother and it has been because of all of your hard work! You should really feel good about this because this is quite an accomplishment!

Yeah, it is funny how when you draw a boundary and tell them that they cannot cross it anymore how this brings respect. I have experienced this so much in my lifetime and I think that it is quite natural actually for folks to cross others boundaries. IMO when you draw that line it is self-respect and what is more respectful than that?

 
Old 08-30-2007, 11:14 AM   #15
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Re: carsam?

dear C,

well, you have your son and his rel. with your mom to think about...and if i were you, i don't know if it would've been that easy for me to do what i did either!!!! yes, i would be unfair for him not to continue to have the close bond he has with his grandma; she really loves him and grandmas are often nicer to their grandkids than to their own kids. despite her depression, her anger, and everything else, she still dotes on him; they have a good time together; he likes being with her. i would never trade my rel. with my grandma/grandparents!!! the memories i have of them will always last in my mind and soul. and nothing ever will even come close to replacing those.

so, for you dear C, there are more factors at stake in your family dynamics, than there were for me. i was basically alone--single, no kid, no anything to think about. you are more 'tangled' in there within those family 'threads.' it's not easy to put much distance in there, b/c like you said, you (like me) have a small family and your son needs to be around pple who know him and love him, especially now, while he's growing up.

but i really believe YOU CAN unburden some of that load you're carrying around for everybody. everybody's wellbeing does not depend on you. it's so much against your character to be selfish, but like i always said, just a little bit of selfishness, esp. when it comes to our sanity, could mean the difference between a breaking point, and a "making it" point. i'm sure you know this already; i don't know why i'm repeating myself. but, i want to thank you for thinking of me the way you do. thanks for making me feel i've been of some help to you re your mom and your understanding of her depression. it's weird, but i'm glad, since you did come here initially to look for some help in that respect.

you're a wonderful soul.
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