The following is the steps that I have taken to get "healthy" again
- Asked for help to find a therapist through CHMA on Monday
- Sent an application/referral in to the local Mood and Anxiety group today
- Underwent a volunteer hospilization for a major med change recently... mind you the fact I was off the scale on a risk factor basis sped up my admission from a month to two hours
- Spent two months in the hospital the first time which accomplished nothing but put me on a med program which damn near destroyed my body - Effexor, Wellbutrin, Lithium, Remeron, Trazadone, Zyprexa all on a daily basis by the end I had gained over sixty pounds and could barely get down the stairs because of muscles flying any which way they choose - weight was Zyprexa fault - bad body mechanics was Lithiums doing
- Following a strict MAOI diet
- Lost over sixty pounds
- Wrote out my life history and gave it to my pdoc - not complete details but lets say he now understands a whole lot more - oh I paid for this with some of the most brutal nightmare/flashback for what seemed day on end and I basicly wrote out a suicide note gave it to a nurse then decided I was too angry to follow through so I destroyed my body instead
- Seeked out advice on this sites and similar ones
- Undergone ECT for a total of six sessions - no longer an option
- Been on damn near every med in the book - Effexor, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Remeron, Temazapam, Seroquel, Klonapin, Ativan, Lithium, Trazadone, Xanax, Nardil, Celexa and many more in the last two years
- Tried out three plus therapists who never made it past the third sessions...apparently I am overwhelming, difficult, prone to self harm, unstable and far from being a "simple" client so they gave up
- Stuck out with every side effect in the book to make sure the med had the proper chance to work...except for Paxil which sent me right to the psych ward in under a week
- Done all of the research and came up with the "perfect" treatment plan for myself its just to bad the Canadian Mental Health System is too tied up to help me implement it even though my doctor completly agrees its the only course of action I may have left as I am almost "untreatable"
Doctors and other so called professionals keep saying I am responsible for my own well being but I have done everything they have told me to do yet not a whole lot has changed in two years. What is there left to do? All the medical community sees are the list of diagnoses: severe MDD, PTSD, BPD, GAD and the scars that cover my body they forgot underneath that garbage there is a real person here
I swear the only reason I get up, besides the obvious which is my son, is to come to sites like this and attempt to help others how to find their way even though I am so completely lost in my own world. Keep believing maybe if I assist enough people it will finaly be my turn to go down the path to stability.
Maybe it time to switch the plan from getting healthy and stable to how to survive long term in this hell I call life. I am running out of options here.
I meant this post to be positive based but it took a funny turn along the way. Here are some positives I am stronger then ever, refuse to quit and still very much capable of helping others just apparently not myself.
Meds just kicked in and the room is starting to spin
take care
trg247
Last edited by trg247; 11-12-2007 at 12:02 AM.
Reason: hit the wrong button
I swear the only reason I get up, besides the obvious which is my son, is to come to sites like this and attempt to help others how to find their way even though I am so completely lost in my own world. Keep believing maybe if I assist enough people it will finaly be my turn to go down the path to stability.
Beside the group of regular posters here that post to you, I am sure you have helped THOUSANDS of people. It only takes a new reader reading one or two of your self-disclosing posts to realize you're someone special.
What is your treatment plan you mentioned? What if there was some creative way to get someone to get you the treatment/plan you want? Maybe not in Canada, as it sounds like mental health care isn't what it could be, but somewhere... would you go for it?
The Following User Says Thank You to lv2srf For This Useful Post: Belly864 (09-09-2012)
The treatment plan basicaly said, my doctor kept it, I need long term counseling in a setting where the staff and people around me are qualified to deal with the many issues I have at hand so they can respond appropriately to keep me from resorting to my old ways of thinking and behavior.
Right now any positive step I try to make with the depression the borderline aspect steps in and screws it up...... kind of I know I need to have comple disclosure with my therapist but she/he looked at me funny so they can't be trusted, two many inner rules/boundaries that are set in concrete
He thought it was a great idea but there was no chance it could be pulled off. The majority of available treatment centers available through out the province have a strict criteria on the "type" of patients they accept and even fewer have beds that are available to someone on long term disability. At this point I would travel anywhere in the province heck maybe the country to get the proper help required but money is a major factor as the disability budget does not cover longterm private facility care, I would need to win the lottery before even considering going into the states.
I don't know if your familiar with AA's 12 step program or not. But the 12'th step is to help other addicts. I think by helping others, it makes you feel better about your self. In other words, helping others, helps you!
Perhaps a 12 step program for mental health......it may have already been done....
trg247 - I really feel your pain and can totally relate.... I am much like you... I try to get on here and help others and in turn maybe it will help me. Like you, I have been on every med there is for BP and was told 2 weeks ago by my shrink, I think your meds are keeping you to depressed, let's add wellbutrin. I said no way, it makes me mean. He said okay, well I need to get you off what you are on, it will take 2 weeks, before I can start something else. So tonight is the big night. I am sitting here thinking, what are the side effects going to be, is it going to work, how long before it works. On top of that, I am on 3 other meds from him, meds for migraines and meds for fibromyaligia. Its just wonderful... I have to stay strong because one day, we both will have our days where we will find that drug that works. I have been fighting this war for over 25 years and I refuse to give up.
I have seen many of your post and I know that you have helped many people on many different threads so you have done alot of good. You should be very proud of yourself and keep fighting for yourself. Don't ever give up.
I know about the anger, the sadness, the heartache, the lonliness, the hurt and all the other things. However, someday, there will be a rainbow waiting for both of us at the end of the tunnel.
I am sending my angels to watch over you. Please don't hurt yourself. When you feel sad or need to vent, please come here, we will be here for you. Jenn
The treatment plan basicaly said, my doctor kept it, I need long term counseling in a setting where the staff and people around me are qualified to deal with the many issues I have at hand so they can respond appropriately to keep me from resorting to my old ways of thinking and behavior.
Right now any positive step I try to make with the depression the borderline aspect steps in and screws it up...... kind of I know I need to have comple disclosure with my therapist but she/he looked at me funny so they can't be trusted, two many inner rules/boundaries that are set in concrete
He thought it was a great idea but there was no chance it could be pulled off. The majority of available treatment centers available through out the province have a strict criteria on the "type" of patients they accept and even fewer have beds that are available to someone on long term disability. At this point I would travel anywhere in the province heck maybe the country to get the proper help required but money is a major factor as the disability budget does not cover longterm private facility care, I would need to win the lottery before even considering going into the states.
take care
trg247
trg.....
No Doc...unless they are borderline, is qualified to treat you.....
I think you would have way more success with a "consumer" as the system calls us.
You don't have to live in hell, but you do have to let someone in.
I know about the nightmares, where you end up at the foot of the bed, and the sheets all over the place. I even know why you end up at the end of the bed. Do you know why?
You are going to have to let it hurt, to heal....I know I sound cruel, but it is true. You know that, don't you?
You have a lot of fans, rooting for you here....let's give 'er a go, ok?
Last nights nightmare I woke up sideways, blankets all over the place, physically felt like I had been run over by a big rig and talking to myself. Then once awake it takes awhile to get my head somewhat cleared. Sure takes the fun out of sleeping
The people around here are very supportive and kind, always have been for the most part but the decision to "dig deep" can't take place in this format the risk factor is way too high.
take care
trg247
__________________
Major Depressive Disorder With Psychotic Features
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
The fights with Freddie Krueger....result from the depression, and feeling like you are bad, from the nightmares.....yes?
I once read in a book that John Lennon tied himself to a chair so that he wouldn't smoke.....
When I would feel like taking the big dive into the next world, I would spin around in my computer chair, put my hands over my ears, and say " la la la la la la la la la" as loud as I could. The feeling would pass...and then it started passing faster...and faster.
I know....I hear them coming now....but it worked.
How to tell I an urge: I talk very quickly, I cover all available easily accessible skin (arms), I sit on my hands until it passes or the med kicks in or I surround myself with people (which doesn't work very well considering the hours I keep). So far so good as I am mark free for November
The nightmares come from periods where I had very little control and being reminded about it from past events. The only real guilt I have in my life including my past is not been in a better mental position to be a better father to my child. My past for the most part I can't justify for I know it had nothing to do with how well I behaved or acted ....... the sometimes bad things happen to good people does not work for a 17 year time frame
My life is about staying in control and keeping myself safe. For a long time self harm was used to keep myself in check..... now I am trying to figure out how to do it in a healthy manner
take care
trg247
__________________
Major Depressive Disorder With Psychotic Features
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Hi:
The treatment plan basicaly said, my doctor kept it, I need long term counseling in a setting where the staff and people around me are qualified to deal with the many issues I have at hand so they can respond appropriately to keep me from resorting to my old ways of thinking and behavior.
Right now any positive step I try to make with the depression the borderline aspect steps in and screws it up...... kind of I know I need to have comple disclosure with my therapist but she/he looked at me funny so they can't be trusted, two many inner rules/boundaries that are set in concrete
Sheeeeeesh, well, that seems like a good plan... and the sheeeesh goes to the lack of chance of getting that, there or the US, really. I was thinking something along the lines of write to Dr. Phil or Montel (or some show on Discovery Health). I'd say Oprah, and maybe that would work, but she doesn't really seem to "get" even regular depression. It might be a chance equal to that of winning the lottery, but eh, why not, you know?
I thought the difficulty with borderline was a lack of solid boundaries? Maybe that's too simplistic. I guess there's a whole tossed salad of stuff contributing to being you.
Gotta say, you know yourself well, and your "limits". Probably Dr. Phil or Montel wouldn't be especially safe choices either.
<group-head-banging-on-the-wall-in-frustration-for-you> You deserve so much.
What you don't realize, is that you are in control. You aren't the frightened child any longer. You don't need anyone to protect you. You can protect yourself.
You are protecting the child from shadows from the past. It's no longer necessary. You have free will, and can say "NO" to anything you want. I know that logically you know this....but you have to let the child go. Let him rest in peace......
Not all of humanity is like your torturers...there are some people who can be trusted. Who are interested in your well being. Unfortunately, the ones closest to you may not be those people.
You are pulling at me when you talk about your son. I was told at age 40 that my Dad had a lot of guilt about me, and it contributed to his depression. I went to bed for two years, and didn't get up. Please don't feel guilty about your son....just be the best Dad that you can be for him. You don't have to be perfect...to him, you'll just be Dad. My Dad was my hero....no matter what. If you do nothing else, you need to pull a rabbit out of your hat for him.
So, can you try to put the skeletons back in the closet, and lock them in? They will never go away....but you can kick their butts back in that closet, and slam the door behind them.
Some of us humans are nice humans....we have our moments, because we are humans, but it's momentary....it doesn't mean the whole game is over, and we are back at square one. We come back for round two, and three, and four. And sometimes, we make progress along the way. This is what you call "normal". You and I don't know about that....we've never experienced it. I'm learning more about it as I go along....it's different, that's for sure. One day, I went to my therapist, thinking I was manic. We did a behaviour check...impulsive spending...nope....racing thoughts....not really....increased sex drive...don't think so....he congratulated me. He said "you feel normal" I said "huh?" He said, "you're not manic...your behaviour says you aren't...you are feeling 'normal'....you're not used to it, so you don't understand it." It's actually kinda cool.
Please stop letting your past ruin your future....don't let them win. You deserve way more than what you have gotten so far. I can tell that you are a good, sensitive man, who has an awful past. Please become that man.
To my knowledge borderline consists of concrete boundaries there is just no leeway. Its either yes or no, black or white with very little in between. There is a lot more to it then that but when it comes to limits and boundaries they can make things rather difficult
example: I thought a nurse gave me a funny look (looking back I think she had something in her eye) so I took it as a sign of disrespect which triggered the "safety" issue so I walked away and refused to have anything to do with her. On a good day I can catch myself before I react ... when I am on this site I can reread something before I respond so it makes it easier.
When I decided to write out my life history for the doctor it was easier for I was just relaying information when I am talking about it I am looking for a reaction for him and the smallest thing could either stop the conversation all together or I will switch gears and try to play it off depending on what I deem the risk factor to me. Took me over two years and then I had to write it down on paper before I was able to even start to go into detail about my past and even still he only knows half the story and I made it very clear on my discharge writing thats all he will ever know even though I know he is just trying to help\
With a therapist its more then being open with that person, I have to be able to trust and feel safe with this person which is constantly being tested. One bad sessions and I will find a way to make sure its the last one no matter of the potential benifits because at that moment its all about keeping myself safe and thats the only thing that matters ........ of course I pay for it in the long run but thats something to deal with later
I have relationships with people that can be healthy and wonderfull but the second I no longer think I can trust the person (and there are some dumb reasons I have used) I turn around and walk away and I don't look back. 99/100 once I end the relationship there is no going back and the person basically disappears from my life completely almost like I never met them in the first point. I can't go back and fix it because all that is going through my head is how they "messed up" in the first place.
As for the Dr.Phil and Montel type enviroment it would never happen as there is no way I could be open. I can get pretty open here because I know if we passed on the street you wouldn't have a clue who I am which makes people here safe for the most part ...... that and the edit button.
sorry for the rant
take care
trg247
__________________
Major Depressive Disorder With Psychotic Features
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Your post showed up while I was writing mine. So it was not a response to you.
take care
trg247
__________________
Major Depressive Disorder With Psychotic Features
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Hi Trg, you are definitely taking control of your life and fighting like a prize fighter. Your posts have definitely changed since you have started coming here. I understand so much more about you now and I am assuming that you understand more about yourself too. These three attributes - self-empowerment, the will to fight, and self-understanding are the top skills for getting better......
I agree with you on people looking at you like you are your diagnoses. You know how I feel about diagnoses. If they would just interact with you as a person it would help a lot. When you described yourself with the "borderline boundaries" I understood you perfectly. Actually, just describing the boundaries made me understand. In the previous posts with just the title "borderline boundaries" I didn't understand. So to me the borderline title wasn't of much use, you had to tell me what it meant to you, as a real person, for me to understand.
I guess the problem is that I have always know to some degree what was taking place in my head and yet I still do it. There is no such thing as a simple decision. I created my treatment/discharge plan in a matter of minutes and even if I was surrounded by the "perfect" health team and enviroment I severely doubt I would be able to pay it off yet I know it would work in the long term. Everything seems like a contradiction ........... I know whats best long term for my well term and I have to take this specific plan but every step of the way my "other side" would come up with a reason not to follow it and eventually I would listen, then start all over again. I am not making a lot of sense here.
The Plan to tell the therapist everything of my past so I can once and for all put it to rest.
Factors that come into play: this person is not taking me seriously, how many people will find out about this, The information will be used against me, well aware of the hell I went through the first time and unsure if I can go through it again so I need to protect myself from myself, my self image is fragile at best and it can't take too many more beatings, people tend to treat me differently when they start to learn about my past, what will happen if the therapist leaves me in the middle of it, the nightmares/flashbacks are already terrible I can't handle much worse, will the end result be worth the torture, etc
each factor is pretty easy to deal with at a one on one basis but they all come at once and don't take me much to jump back to where I think I am safe. Everytime I think someone is getting to close to the imaginary but very real line where I think for whatever reason they are becoming a threat to my well being I guess I reevaluate them and if the threat light comes up the so called journey ends right there. I have long term relationships that just comes to an end and when friends or family ask about them the answer is always the same "She had to go" which means is my language she got to close to the line so I completely cut her out of my life.
Depression or PTSD or GAD are not individually the monster or not even collectively but the monster is my other side who will do whatever it takes to keep himself safe to ensure no one even gets an attempt to hurt him in anyway...................even though by doing so it is destroying me. My doctor said there is no real reason why your depression should not have been dealt with and put behind you a long time ago except the fact the harder you fight against the depresssion the harder you fight against youself.
take care
trg247
__________________
Major Depressive Disorder With Psychotic Features
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
I'm gonna tell you my "guilt" and "expectations" theory, and I want to know what you think of it. I have described it to people before, but I don't think they understood what I was saying.
People, will often try to lay guilt on me...Aunt....you never come to see me, nobody comes to see me, we're always here alone.
Expectation...Aunt babysat Grandma, until she died. Now that she's old, she "expects" me to babysit her 'til she dies.
Not happening....not accepting the guilt, not fulfilling the expectation. She "chose" to babysit Grandma....nothing anywhere says I have to do the same, or feel guilty about it.
She was shocked when I said this to her. It was totally foreign, that I didn't jump when she told me to jump.
I only fulfill one person's expectations.....mine. If you don't like the way I conduct business....carry on......no exclusions.
Guilt....I had to come up with this plan after what was said to me at 40 years old, when my Dad had died when I was 18. I blamed myself for his death, and wallowed in guilt for 2 years after I was told that I contributed to his depression. I blamed my Mom for not letting me see him. I blamed myself for not telling my Mom to .......whatever, I blamed myself for his death. If I had been there he wouldn't have done it.
With tons of therapy.....I realized, that my Dad made the decision to kill himself. Would it not have happened if I had been there? Possible...but why speculate...it didn't happen that way. The truth is, my Dad made the decision to kill himself. He could have called me...he could have written me...but he chose to kill himself. His decision.
Expectations...I don't really care what anybody thinks of me....they are judging me, by their own personal standards, and beliefs...if mine are different, does that make mine wrong? No. Does that make me any less of a person...No. Should people look at me funny, because I have mental illnesses.....when they walk for 1 hour in my shoes, and come back and look at me funny, I'll take it seriously.....until then...No.
There are no ifs, ands or buts to this theory....because it is what keeps me sane.
I have no idea what I just said...gonna be interesting to read it...
This post has turned into a lesson on the way the "borderline" brain works but hopefully it will help someone.
I don't care what others think about me but it is important to maintain my own self image including how others see me.
Guilt ties into this .... kind of. It is hard to make me feel guilty over something I had no control over. I didn't tell that person to say or do whatever they did so I don't get why it should effect me so I don't think about it. That person chose to do what they did to satisfy their needs not mine, its great that person X did whatever to help that other person but what they did makes no difference in my life nor do I take a lot of stock in it so to me it doesn't matter what they did.
If it effects my family or my friends that involves there safety in whatever form including slander I take it very seriously and as a personal attack but the decisions they make regarding their own lives is there own perogative and I will not interfere unless I don't believe I have a choice in the matter or its going to effect my life in some way. My world requires almost all of attention all of the time to keep it in some sort of order.
I can sit here and reply to a hundred posts a day with what I hope is sound direction but as it has no effect on my life its not something I give a whole lot of thought too I just see it as helping not to serve some personal agenda. This is personality number three that is mostly based on education, experience and healthy options ......... I refer to this as switching over to "work" mode as thats how I seperated my own life to the people I was trying to help when I was working. My past comes into play but no obvious events will be shown just whats needed to best provide direction
I have an odd feeling I have strayed off track again. Your theory makes perfect sense to me but I know why others don't get it. A lot of people respond from an emotional place in them where BPD is just about the facts and the best way to complete the task at hand ......... maybe.
take care
trg247
__________________
Major Depressive Disorder With Psychotic Features
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
To my knowledge borderline consists of concrete boundaries there is just no leeway. Its either yes or no, black or white with very little in between. There is a lot more to it then that but when it comes to limits and boundaries they can make things rather difficult
example: I thought a nurse gave me a funny look (looking back I think she had something in her eye) so I took it as a sign of disrespect which triggered the "safety" issue so I walked away and refused to have anything to do with her. On a good day I can catch myself before I react ... when I am on this site I can reread something before I respond so it makes it easier.
Like Sannah mentioned too, you give a clearer explanation of how boundaries work for borderline than anything else I have read. It reminds me again of that friend of mine and how and why things with him are the way they are (you'd written stuff that clicked, in that old journal thread). It really helped me to understand it wasn't my fault and that I was not crazy. I think his household and yours might run head-to-head for "difficulty level" and he's a Vietnam vet.
Anyway, how do you feel about what your doc said about your depression and no reason to have it still other than having pushed it down all this time? He doesn't consider there was a reason to keep it all down? How did you manage while you were going to school and at work after that? What about before you chose to go back to school--it wasn't straight from high school, right? Maybe I'm being too nosey. How about doing something like the Jerod "crazy" guy--I think you know who--from your own perspective? Ack, all I've done is question, question, question. Sorry. You're amazing just the way you are.
At the moment I am waiting for all of my meds to kick in so I have no idea how much sense this is going to make and I can't remember what I posted on this thread and on another board that is basically going the same way.
Depression before 2002/2003 I just buried it completly along with the past. I was never really happy but I managed to exist and everything was packaged away neatly way back in my head. My Dad died in Jan 2002, my Grandfather died Mar 2002, I graduated college in April 2002, started grouphome work June 2002, Married July 2002. About six months later I had problems keeping my past behind it and things started to come out. Very few people know a lot of details about my past because it keeps things easier to me so any questions were answered with very brief answers "It wasn't good" kind of thing. When the depression started to gain speed the borderline end came out with a vengence as I guess its main purpose is to keep me safe. I have always thought out answers before speaking, rehearsing conversations and very aware of what the consequences were of a specific action and how to get where "I" needed to go just not to the degree it is right now. Before I was fighting just to maintain a sense of normalcy now I am fighting for my life so the borderline trg takes the smallest thing a lot more seriously then in the past. (I don't think that made any sense what I just wrote but I am too tired to go through it)
School and work are or were easy as there is no emotion involved.... don't get me wrong with work there was a tone of empathy involved and I would give body parts to save some of them ..... but it was a mental switch where I focused soley on the other person or task at hand and my world does not come into play. School there was a question and then there was an answer with very little in between which is the same way I think so it makes sense plus for whatever the reason the material I was studying came very easy to me 3.99 gpa (79% in an english class) or a 97% average. With work a friend of mine and I took over the house and revamped the house in a borderline fashion ........ you do this and this is what happens period ........... on the emotional level when dealing with the kids is I figure out the root problem then come out with the answer and then help them to get there all based on a purely logical level (Its effecting the kids life not mine so there was no reason for me to emotional react past a certain line)
I took a year and a half off after high school then went to college for a hospitality type field and all I remember is I lived with a woman for almost six months and the day school ended I packed my bags and left. I was extremely impulsive and spent the next five years in an assortment of jobs, careers and different cities until I met my exwife who I then moved with to go back to school to get into the field I was in before I got sick. My exwife is a very smart woman with a honors degree in psychology so she figured out how to communicate with me where others before her just gave up and how she lasted for so many years. The mistake she made was to keep pushing at my past as she was trying to help but it sent up my walls instead. Finally when I was right in the deep end she pushed for the first hospitalization in 2005 so I went in for her sake and within a couple of months after my discharge ( I completely manipulated a floater doctor to sign the papers) she no longer felt I was safe enough to be around my son and her so she left which is a decision that I agree with looking back to some degree but on the borderline side what she proved to me was she was not safe and for that reason I will never try to repair it for the right reasons, I love my exwife still but she is a threat and safety comes first. If my son was not involved I would not have said a single word to her since she did leave.
How is that for a messed up reply. Speaking of my little one he is due to arrive at two so I should get to bed ......... it has been around a month since I have seen him ......... I have been talking with him over the phone during that period.
sorry if I missed read your post. Is Jared the subway guy? Too tired to think.
take care
trg247
__________________
Major Depressive Disorder With Psychotic Features
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
