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Old 12-29-2003, 08:55 AM   #1
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Atkins Lies

* Note:
Many statements on this thread are inaccurate, however, I am leaving the thread for those of you who like the argument. Only you may not add to it.
This thread is now ended.

This website is a support forum, not a place to put others down for their choices, or to argue against them. Give support or else MOVE ON to other posts you agree with.

Anyone found to be posting for the purpose of running down the diet methods others choose will, from now on, be permanently banned.

Do so at your own risk.





Since so many people here believe in Atkins, I thought I'd dispel some of the hype and point out the misleading statements that are often said about Atkins.

1) Atkins doesnít work.

It depends on what your definition is. If all you're worried about is quick weight loss, then Atkins does work. But if you're like most people and want permanent fat loss, then Atkins fails. Atkins dieters are no different than other dieters. They lose weight in the short term, but gain it in the long term.

2) Thereís a ton of research that proves Atkins works.

All these studies conclude is that Atkins is just as good at losing weight in the short term as any other diet. But they all end by saying something like "the results are very preliminary" or "further study is needed." You also have to keep in mind that in all of these studies, Atkins is being compared to the traditional food pyramid. Well if the pyramid is wrong, then of course Atkins will look good.

3) Atkins doesnít raise your cholesterol.

In some of the studies, people didn't follow the Atkins Diet exactly and they didn't enter ketosis. And in some of the studies, drugs were used to lower cholesterol. And in some other studies, people actually showed an increase in cholesterol. And some people lower their cholesterol just by losing weight regardless of how they lost it. So you can't be sure Atkins didn't raise their cholesterol since it was also being lowered when they lost weight. The bottom line is we still don't know for sure that Atkins doesn't raise cholesterol.

4) Atkins will help you keep fat off permanently.

In general, the more extreme a diet and the faster the weight loss, the harder it is to maintain. All of the studies lasted no more than a year. Until people do 5 or 10 year studies, how can we know Atkins really keeps the fat off?

5) Calories donít count on Atkins.

Anybody who thinks you can eat as much as you want and still lose weight is kidding themselves. One reason why Atkins followers don't have to pay attention to calories is because the diet is high in fat which makes their appetite go down because they feel fuller sooner. That makes it more likely they won't overeat. So they end up taking in less calories than they need. They may not be counting them, but calories still do matter.

6) Atkins gives you a metabolic advantage so you can eat as much as you want.

Not quite. Certain foods require more calories just to digest them and absorb them. This is called the thermic effect of food. So the net effect is you don't take in all the calories that are in the food. This is misleading cause it makes it look like you can eat excess calories.

7) Atkins causes faster and greater fat loss than conventional diets.

Low carbing definitely causes greater weight loss, but this is mostly due to a drop in water weight and glycogen.

8) Carbs make you fat.

What makes you fat is eating too many calories. What's also true is that not all carbs are the same. There are good carbs and bad carbs. The bad carbs are the refined ones. The good carbs are the natural carbs.

9) Ketosis makes you feel better and doesnít affect your performance.

Carbs are the bodyís preferred and most efficient fuel source for strength training and physical activity. Many low carbers think fat is a better energy source than carbohydrates, but this is not true. Fat isn't more efficient. It's just more concentrated. Muscular contraction is powered by carbs (glycogen). This is why a high fat, low carb diet is bad if you plan on doing any serious physical activity. What's also true is people on low carb diets often feel moody and tired.

10) Very low carb diets are the secret to fat loss.

If permanent fat loss were as simple as removing carbohydrates from your diet, then why has obesity surged to an all-new high in 2003 and why are there so many Atkins failures?

Last edited by Administrator; 01-23-2004 at 04:54 PM.

 
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Old 12-29-2003, 05:35 PM   #2
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Re: Atkins Lies

Very good information... Thanks for pointing all that out.

I've never been a fan of Atkins diet or any other low carb fad diet. There is so much hype over it, ppl just follow the trend without thinking for themselves. It's not a safe diet - Just like ALL diets aren't safe, you can lose weight fast but at a cost, plus you will gain it all back.

It's nice to see someone else talking a different look at Atkins.

 
Old 12-29-2003, 07:47 PM   #3
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Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amby
Very good information... Thanks for pointing all that out.

I've never been a fan of Atkins diet or any other low carb fad diet. There is so much hype over it, ppl just follow the trend without thinking for themselves. It's not a safe diet - Just like ALL diets aren't safe, you can lose weight fast but at a cost, plus you will gain it all back.

It's nice to see someone else talking a different look at Atkins.


I've never tried Adkins because I need serotonin and without carbs you can run into some big problems with your serotonin running low. It is frustrating though when I see everyone in my family is at there lowest weight in ten years because of the Adkins or South Beach diet. Almost all of my family was thinner this year than they've ever been with an average weight loss of 25 lbs...... It makes me so mad because I'm going to the gym and I'm trying to eat less and eat healthy. I guess my weight loss will just take more time. My mom didnt do any gimmicky weight loss plan just 20 minutes on the treadmill a day for a year and shes down from a size 12/14 to a 6/8.

 
Old 12-29-2003, 08:21 PM   #4
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Re: Atkins Lies

Excellent post! About time someone exposes the high fat frauds like Atkins.

 
Old 12-29-2003, 08:56 PM   #5
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Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonutsNCoffee
Since so many people here believe in Atkins, I thought I'd dispel some of the hype and point out the misleading statements that are often said about Atkins.

1) Atkins doesnít work.

It depends on what your definition is. If all you're worried about is quick weight loss, then Atkins does work. But if you're like most people and want permanent fat loss, then Atkins fails. Atkins dieters are no different than other dieters. They lose weight in the short term, but gain it in the long term.

2) Thereís a ton of research that proves Atkins works.

All these studies conclude is that Atkins is just as good at losing weight in the short term as any other diet. But they all end by saying something like "the results are very preliminary" or "further study is needed." You also have to keep in mind that in all of these studies, Atkins is being compared to the traditional food pyramid. Well if the pyramid is wrong, then of course Atkins will look good.

3) Atkins doesnít raise your cholesterol.

In some of the studies, people didn't follow the Atkins Diet exactly and they didn't enter ketosis. And in some of the studies, drugs were used to lower cholesterol. And in some other studies, people actually showed an increase in cholesterol. And some people lower their cholesterol just by losing weight regardless of how they lost it. So you can't be sure Atkins didn't raise their cholesterol since it was also being lowered when they lost weight. The bottom line is we still don't know for sure that Atkins doesn't raise cholesterol.

4) Atkins will help you keep fat off permanently.

In general, the more extreme a diet and the faster the weight loss, the harder it is to maintain. All of the studies lasted no more than a year. Until people do 5 or 10 year studies, how can we know Atkins really keeps the fat off?

5) Calories donít count on Atkins.

Anybody who thinks you can eat as much as you want and still lose weight is kidding themselves. One reason why Atkins followers don't have to pay attention to calories is because the diet is high in fat which makes their appetite go down because they feel fuller sooner. That makes it more likely they won't overeat. So they end up taking in less calories than they need. They may not be counting them, but calories still do matter.

6) Atkins gives you a metabolic advantage so you can eat as much as you want.

Not quite. Certain foods require more calories just to digest them and absorb them. This is called the thermic effect of food. So the net effect is you don't take in all the calories that are in the food. This is misleading cause it makes it look like you can eat excess calories.

7) Atkins causes faster and greater fat loss than conventional diets.

Low carbing definitely causes greater weight loss, but this is mostly due to a drop in water weight and glycogen.

8) Carbs make you fat.

What makes you fat is eating too many calories. What's also true is that not all carbs are the same. There are good carbs and bad carbs. The bad carbs are the refined ones. The good carbs are the natural carbs.

9) Ketosis makes you feel better and doesnít affect your performance.

Carbs are the bodyís preferred and most efficient fuel source for strength training and physical activity. Many low carbers think fat is a better energy source than carbohydrates, but this is not true. Fat isn't more efficient. It's just more concentrated. Muscular contraction is powered by carbs (glycogen). This is why a high fat, low carb diet is bad if you plan on doing any serious physical activity. What's also true is people on low carb diets often feel moody and tired.

10) Very low carb diets are the secret to fat loss.

If permanent fat loss were as simple as removing carbohydrates from your diet, then why has obesity surged to an all-new high in 2003 and why are there so many Atkins failures?
Atkins is a lifestyle change not just a diet. Maybe Atkins is not for everyone, but I feel it has helped me alot since I'm always tired, I have alot of water retention, unexplained swollen ankles, my stomach was hugh due to the water retention. I looked like I was 3 or 4 months pregnant. For the first time in five years, I'm almost at my pre-pregnancy weight before my 2nd and 3rd child. I couldn't do that with exercise or other weight loss methods. Now my stomach is just about flat (still some baby fat) and I have energy. I'm sure that if I started back eating the breads, pasta, ice cream and etc, I will gain it all back that's why it's a change in what your eat not just a diet. It doesn't work for everyone, it's hard to stop the soda, chips, cookies and so on. But I will give it all up for the way I look and feel now.


Last edited by rmainor; 12-29-2003 at 09:35 PM.

 
Old 12-29-2003, 11:38 PM   #6
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Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonutsNCoffee
1) Atkins doesnít work.
It depends on what your definition is. If all you're worried about is quick weight loss, then Atkins does work. But if you're like most people and want permanent fat loss, then Atkins fails. Atkins dieters are no different than other dieters. They lose weight in the short term, but gain it in the long term.
typical weight loss may be up to 10% the first 2 weeks on atkins, after that, usual average is about 2 lbs a week and sometimes more, all depends on the start and goal weight ...the more weight loss you are in need of, the faster you will lose, in the first few months, but then it will also slow down...so not a quick weight loss plan...any weight loss plan will result in weight gain once you return to the former eating and activity levels

2) Thereís a ton of research that proves Atkins works.
But they all end by saying something like "the results are very preliminary" or "further study is needed." same as any other weight loss plan, i believe that only 10% of dieters who lose weight, regardless of the plan they are on, will keep it off for 5 years, unless they make the weight loss plan a way of eating for the remainder of their lifetime

3) Atkins doesnít raise your cholesterol.
followers of atkins do report a lowering of their cholesterol levels after 6 months, specifically the triglycerides...the triglycerides are more of a marker for cardiac probs than cholesterol levels....triglycerides are produced during the manufacture of body fat....the eades' protein power book explains this in greater detail than atkins.

4) Atkins will help you keep fat off permanently.
atkins, protein power, and other low carbs diets are nothing new...the basis of these plans have been around since the late 1800's...there is currently a long term study being conducted on the benefits of low carbing, funded by the govt as well as by the atkins center (foundation)

5) Calories donít count on Atkins.
another misnomer about atkins....atkins and protein power both state that although one doesn't count calories, calories do count.

6) Atkins gives you a metabolic advantage so you can eat as much as you want.
once again, this is wrong...one does not eat as much as they want, they only eat until they are satisfied...this is not a stuff your face weight loss plan but one that involves portion control....the metabolic advantage with atkins is the use of dietary fats.

7) Atkins causes faster and greater fat loss than conventional diets.
same answer as #1...the body is comprised of a vast amount of water, so when one loses body fat they also lose water, and yes the glycogen storage does carry weight as well.


8) Carbs make you fat.
excess carbs as well as excess proteins are converted to glycogen....glycogen is stored for energy....what is not used for energy is transported back through the body and is converted to body fat...the best way to burn body fat is to have a low glycogen reserve, in the absence of this energy for fuel, the body will the turn to the burning of body fat for energy, thus the weightloss....most people can continue to lose while consuming 60 grams of carbs a day, maintain at 80-120 or more a day.


9) Ketosis makes you feel better and doesnít affect your performance.
due to the stabilization of blood sugar levels most people experience improved mental health (after the first 2 weeks of induction) as well as being able to decrease or eliminate the need for antidepressants and ther psychotropic meds...studies have published which reflected that there is no need to up one carbs simply because of endurance training or other exercises....increasing the fats rather than engaging in a carb overload will actually improve the endurance

10) Very low carb diets are the secret to fat loss.
If permanent fat loss were as simple as removing carbohydrates from your diet, then why has obesity surged to an all-new high in 2003 and why are there so many Atkins failures?
once agin, atkins is not about removing carbs from one's diet, but limiting the ones that our bodies are not designed to eat to begin with, takes up to 10,000 years for our bodies to make the adapation to the changes in environment...obesity is a national epidemic that has nothing to do with atkins, more with the food pyramid and the low fat propaganda that we have been fed for years...there are probably as many atkins failures as there are on any weight loss plan, exercise plan, diet pill plans, blah blah blah

the best way to spread "lies" about atkins is through postings like this where the info is presented as incorrect to begin with based on the teaching of atkins...i also find use of the word "lies" to be very offensive to me as an avid follower of atkins....but then again, you are not a cardiologist who have transformed so many lives, just a poster...i will no longer respond to such ramblings from you...

 
Old 12-30-2003, 12:09 AM   #7
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Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonutsNCoffee
1) Atkins doesn’t work.

It depends on what your definition is. If all you're worried about is quick weight loss, then Atkins does work. But if you're like most people and want permanent fat loss, then Atkins fails. Atkins dieters are no different than other dieters. They lose weight in the short term, but gain it in the long term.
I guess it really does depend on what your definition is. Atkins didn't fail for me based on what I consider works. I've been following Dr. Atkins low carb diet for over 4 years now and have easily maintained my weightloss and improved my overall health significantly based on lower bloodpressure, improved blood lipid levels, and virtually every other measure available. Even my 70 year old mother lost weight and improved her health following this way of eating - and she has been at it for well over 2 years now. It works for me and my family. That is all that I can say with 100% certainty.
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Old 12-30-2003, 06:10 AM   #8
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Re: Atkins Lies

I haven't been to the weight loss section of healthboards in a while. Due to being pregnant. But I can say without a doubt that Atkins does work. I totally agree that it is a life change. I quit due to being pregnant. A lot of people do it during pregnancy and have found it to be totally safe. I guess I just wanted that last chance to eat.
You know they say that the majority of people who say Atkins is false or doesn't work are either the people who have never tried it or who do not have the will power to stay with it. I dropped 50 pds on Atkins and am going back on it next month after I have my baby. So truthfully I really think that what you wrote was offensive and wrong. Everyone is due there opinion all though I feel that you could possible hurt someone who is really trying to lose weight. Good Luck with what you try as for me it's only Atkins.

 
Old 12-30-2003, 09:15 AM   #9
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Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
typical weight loss may be up to 10% the first 2 weeks on atkins, after that, usual average is about 2 lbs a week and sometimes more, all depends on the start and goal weight ...the more weight loss you are in need of, the faster you will lose, in the first few months, but then it will also slow down...so not a quick weight loss plan...any weight loss plan will result in weight gain once you return to the former eating and activity levels.
The issue isn't how fast a person can lose weight following Atkins. The issue is whether it's a good long term plan or just another short-term solution. Of course a person will regain the weight if they go back to their original habits. But let's assume a person sticks to Atkins for 20 or 30 years. Then what? This is my whole problem with Atkins and the people who swear by it. They're convinced this is the proper way to eat for life and yet there are no real studies about the long-term impact.

Quote:
i believe that only 10% of dieters who lose weight, regardless of the plan they are on, will keep it off for 5 years, unless they make the weight loss plan a way of eating for the remainder of their lifetime.
Which again raises the question of whether Atkins is healthy in the long run. There's no question you can lose weight on Atkins, but there haven't been studies showing that this is a healthy way to eat for life. Atkins has been around for 2 decades. A study showing the 10 and 20-year affects of Atkins would be more valuable than a 6-month or 1-year study, which seem to be the only kinds of studies that are done to support Atkins. That's like buying stock in a company after you've only seen a 6-month chart. Smart investors would look at the long-term trend first.

Quote:
followers of atkins do report a lowering of their cholesterol levels after 6 months
Cholesterol decreases when people lose weight, regardless of what eating plan they follow. In order to know the true impact on cholesterol levels, all other changes need to be controlled including weight. For all we know, Atkins raised cholesterol but the weight loss decreased it by a greater amount so the net result was a decrease. A study that followed people on the Atkins plan who MAINTAINED their weight would be valuable cause then we'd truly be able to see what happens to cholesterol.

Quote:
another misnomer about atkins....atkins and protein power both state that although one doesn't count calories, calories do count.
Yes, but Atkins claims a person doesn't have to do the actual counting and that they can have faith that by following the plan, they'll be taking in less calories than they need. I just think that's foolish.

Quote:
once again, this is wrong...one does not eat as much as they want, they only eat until they are satisfied...this is not a stuff your face weight loss plan but one that involves portion control....the metabolic advantage with atkins is the use of dietary fats.
And that's what I have a problem with. The Atkins plan asks you to put too much faith in the idea that dietary fats will control your appetite to the point where you don't have to pay attention to how much you're eating and that fat will kill your appetite long before you eat too much.

Quote:
the body is comprised of a vast amount of water, so when one loses body fat they also lose water, and yes the glycogen storage does carry weight as well.
Which means the weight loss is misleading. Water will eventually be replenished. When you lose weight, you want to be sure that the loss you're seeing is actually fat, not water or glycogen or muscle. Losing glycogen isn't good either. If your glycogen is low and your blood sugar is also low, your muscles will be starving for energy which increases the chances of your body breaking down muscle for energy.

Quote:
the best way to burn body fat is to have a low glycogen reserve, in the absence of this energy for fuel, the body will the turn to the burning of body fat for energy, thus the weightloss....most people can continue to lose while consuming 60 grams of carbs a day, maintain at 80-120 or more a day.
This is an oversimplification. The body will not automatically burn fat if glycogen is low. It can also resort to breaking down muscle. Low glycogen is good if you plan to do cardio, but what if you're weight training? Your workouts will suffer if glycogen is low.

Quote:
due to the stabilization of blood sugar levels most people experience improved mental health (after the first 2 weeks of induction) as well as being able to decrease or eliminate the need for antidepressants and ther psychotropic meds...studies have published which reflected that there is no need to up one carbs simply because of endurance training or other exercises....increasing the fats rather than engaging in a carb overload will actually improve the endurance.
Glycogen is always the preferred energy source for high intensity exercise, whether it be endurance cardio or weight training. Carbs are also necessary to trigger an insulin response. Fats don't trigger insulin and insulin is necessary to move amino acids into muscles. This is why increasing the fats won't help people doing high intensity exercise. They won't have enough glycogen to power their workouts and they won't have enough amino acids entering the muscles for growth and repair.

Quote:
once agin, atkins is not about removing carbs from one's diet, but limiting the ones that our bodies are not designed to eat to begin with
It is about cutting carbs too much. I'm all for cutting processed carbs and being aware of how carbs impact insulin levels, but Atkins has made people carb paranoid. The plan doesn't take into account the value of carbs and why they're needed for high intensity exercise and for getting amino acids into muscles.

Quote:
obesity is a national epidemic that has nothing to do with atkins, more with the food pyramid and the low fat propaganda that we have been fed for years.
I never said Atkins was responsible for the obesity epidemic so I don't know why you're bringing this up. My point is that it's not a good long-term solution to the problem.

Quote:
the best way to spread "lies" about atkins is through postings like this where the info is presented as incorrect to begin with based on the teaching of atkins...i also find use of the word "lies" to be very offensive to me as an avid follower of atkins....but then again, you are not a cardiologist who have transformed so many lives, just a poster...i will no longer respond to such ramblings from you.
What I find interesting is how defensive Atkins followers get. Some of the responses to this thread have focused on the weight lost by following the Atkins plan. That's all find and dandy, but that was never the issue. The issue is whether someone can eat like this for life. Also the information I presented is correct and taken from the Atkins book. I'm sorry you're offended by the word "lies", but it's entirely appropriate. False statements are lies and that describes many of the Atkins promises and principles. And as for Atkins being a cardiologist, I find that gives him little credibility given that the majority of cadiologists out there disagree with him. What separates Atkins from other cardiologists is he's trying to make money by selling books while they're out practicing medicine. And as for no longer responding to "ramblings" from me, that's also typical of too many Atkins followers. They won't engage in a debate about the Atkins plan. I wonder what that says about the strength of their position. This post was designed to clear up some of the confusion about Atkins. I'm sick of coming to this board and seeing so many people mislead. They hear all the good things about Atkins, but none of the bad. What I find offensive is people who promote an unhealthy way of eating and refuse to address its shortcomings.

 
Old 12-30-2003, 10:13 AM   #10
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Re: Atkins Lies

"And as for no longer responding to "ramblings" from me, that's also typical of too many Atkins followers. They won't engage in a debate about the Atkins plan."

Well, that may be true because some of us, I for one, don't care about debating whatever diet plan we're trying. Lots of plans are out there, some work for some, some work for others. If it doesn't work for you, or you don't like it, then for heaven's sake, do something else. But the debates are silly. I mean really, no matter what position you have on any issue, you can find "documentation" to back you up. Tell me, for example, how you arrived at your conclusion that "most cardiologists" don't think the Atkins plan is a good idea? Was there some sort of survey conducted among the world's zillions of cardiologists? Who collected the data? Where is it? See what I mean? Different plans appeal to different people. I am not a very big person, and I could eat a well balanced diet of 1500 calories and not lose an ounce. This, however, is working, slowly but surely. So that's really all the "debate" I need.

 
Old 12-30-2003, 11:42 AM   #11
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Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonutsNCoffee
...But let's assume a person sticks to Atkins for 20 or 30 years. Then what?
Then you keep going at it for the next 20 or 30 years and so on and so on. What is the problem with that? The maintenance phase of the Dr. Atkins diet is quite easy to live with in my opinion. Most people that are so against the diet get hung up on the 2 week induction phase and forget about the maintenance phase (or are they even aware of it?).

Quote:
They're convinced this is the proper way to eat for life and yet there are no real studies about the long-term impact. Which again raises the question of whether Atkins is healthy in the long run. There's no question you can lose weight on Atkins, but there haven't been studies showing that this is a healthy way to eat for life. Atkins has been around for 2 decades. A study showing the 10 and 20-year affects of Atkins would be more valuable than a 6-month or 1-year study, which seem to be the only kinds of studies that are done to support Atkins.
Have there been any long term studies on the effectivness and health effects of the government recommended low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet? or even low calorie diets? or even lifestyles that revolve around high intensity exercise? I think not. So why are you singling out the Atkins diet here in this regard? What is recommended by Dr. Atkins and most other low carbo advocates is that you monitor your progress with routine health exams to see how it is affecting YOU. People are so genetically different that there is no one single diet that will work for everyone.

Quote:
Cholesterol decreases when people lose weight, regardless of what eating plan they follow.
Not always and their lipid ratios often DO NOT improve. Low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets often lead to elevated triglycerides and lower HDL levels - both of which increase your risk of heart disease. This particularly happens in individuals that are genetically susceptable to metabolic syndrome X.

Quote:
In order to know the true impact on cholesterol levels, all other changes need to be controlled including weight. For all we know, Atkins raised cholesterol but the weight loss decreased it by a greater amount so the net result was a decrease. A study that followed people on the Atkins plan who MAINTAINED their weight would be valuable cause then we'd truly be able to see what happens to cholesterol.
What difference does it make? The net result is that many people improve their health by following the Atkins diet by every measure available today (i.e. less bodyfat - that's a good thing isn't it?, lower cholesterol levels including triglycerides and higher HDL levels- that's a positive health indicator isn't it?, lower bloodpressure levels - anything wrong with that?, and improved energy levels and outlook on life - something wrong with that?, and liver and kidney functions improve based on CBC results).

Quote:
Yes, but Atkins claims a person doesn't have to do the actual counting and that they can have faith that by following the plan, they'll be taking in less calories than they need. I just think that's foolish.
Again, what difference does it make? If you are able to eat until satsified and still lose excess body fat or maintain the fat loss, then what is the benefit of concerning yourself with how many calories are being consumed. It is just one less thing you have to worry about when you follow this diet.

Quote:
And that's what I have a problem with. The Atkins plan asks you to put too much faith in the idea that dietary fats will control your appetite to the point where you don't have to pay attention to how much you're eating and that fat will kill your appetite long before you eat too much.
He doesn't require any faith at all. His books are well referenced and there are numersous scientific references and studies to support his conclusions listed on his website. Again, what difference does it make? Try the diet, get the medical exam before and after like he recommends, and if it works then great. If not, then move on to something else.

Quote:
The body will not automatically burn fat if glycogen is low. It can also resort to breaking down muscle.
Huh? That is the whole premise behind the diet. Lower the bloodsugar and glycogen levels (and as a result, the insulin levels which blocks fat metabolism when elevated) and the body shifts to fat as its primary fuel source - this is the way our bodies evolved to function prior to the widespread adoption of agricultural practices ~10,000 years ago. And muscle breakdown is spared if adequate dietary protein is consumed which is recommend. Numerous studies have shown that low carbohydrate diets result in less muscle loss and more fat loss than traditional low calorie diets.

Quote:
Carbs are also necessary to trigger an insulin response. Fats don't trigger insulin and insulin is necessary to move amino acids into muscles. This is why increasing the fats won't help people doing high intensity exercise. They won't have enough glycogen to power their workouts and they won't have enough amino acids entering the muscles for growth and repair.
You forgot to mention (or did you even know?) that protein also triggers an insulin response. That will get those amino acids into the muscles.

Quote:
It is about cutting carbs too much. I'm all for cutting processed carbs and being aware of how carbs impact insulin levels, but Atkins has made people carb paranoid. The plan doesn't take into account the value of carbs and why they're needed for high intensity exercise and for getting amino acids into muscles.
If you don't eat all of those carbs, which provide energy and little else, then you don't need that high intensity exercise to burn them off. Three 15 minute sessions of resistance exercises (weights, pull-ups, push-ups, etc.) and a brisk walk or two per week is adequate exercise for most people in good health. Of course, if you want to be a gym rat, then you may want to increase your carbohydrate intake. But I have better things to do than spend hour upon hour running around in circles in a gym or on a stationary bike so that I can burn off that bread or pasta I ate for lunch.

Quote:
I never said Atkins was responsible for the obesity epidemic so I don't know why you're bringing this up.
But you implied it by referring to the ongoing obesity epedimic and mentioning that the Atkins diet has been around for years in the same sentence.

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What I find interesting is how defensive Atkins followers get.
It is because of the rubish like you posted above. Not one reference, not one bit of scientific evidence to support your statements.

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The issue is whether someone can eat like this for life.
Why not eat like this for life? I see no reason that I cannot eat this way for life. I like eating this way and honestly can't even imagine eating differently after following a low carb diet for so long.

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Also the information I presented is correct and taken from the Atkins book. I'm sorry you're offended by the word "lies", but it's entirely appropriate. False statements are lies and that describes many of the Atkins promises and principles.
Sorry, but I wholeheartedly disagree. If you are going to call someone a lier, I would at least expect you to provide some hard evidence, which you have not.

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And as for Atkins being a cardiologist, I find that gives him little credibility given that the majority of cadiologists out there disagree with him.
Again, what is the basis for your statement that the majority of cardiologist out there disagree with him (it may be true, I don't have a clue since I have polled all cardiologists out there, but the point is if you make statements like that as fact, then it would be nice to have some supporting evidence). This is what irks me the most - making unsupported claims.

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They won't engage in a debate about the Atkins plan. I wonder what that says about the strength of their position.
I'm here and I'm ready. When you post something worthy of debating we can go at it. All I've seen you post so far is opinions. Everyone has those, but they are hard to debate without something more substantial thrown in to hinge the dabate on.

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I'm sick of coming to this board and seeing so many people mislead. They hear all the good things about Atkins, but none of the bad. What I find offensive is people who promote an unhealthy way of eating and refuse to address its shortcomings.
When you have some shortcomings to the Atkins diet that are more than just in your head or pulled off a website without any scientific basis, please come back and post them. Also please post the reference to where you found the shortcoming or at least provide a sound biological theory as to why it is a problem.

Alan
__________________
The tragedy of science is the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. T H Huxley

 
Old 12-30-2003, 12:00 PM   #12
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DonutsNCoffee HB User
Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by wearesiamese
some of us, I for one, don't care about debating whatever diet plan we're trying...the debates are silly.
Not wanting to debate the plan you're on is silly and foolish. This is your health that's at risk. If you don't question the plan you're on, then how will you know if it's wrong? Imagine if no one debated about the conventional food pyramid. Then we'd all still be following it.

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This, however, is working, slowly but surely. So that's really all the "debate" I need.
Once again, people have missed the point of this thread. The issue is not whether Atkins will help you lose weight. It's whether it's healthy for you in the long run.

 
Old 12-30-2003, 01:38 PM   #13
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DonutsNCoffee HB User
Re: Atkins Lies

Quote:
Then you keep going at it for the next 20 or 30 years and so on and so on. What is the problem with that?
The problem is you don't know what the long-term effects are. Sure it may cause you to lose weight and may even keep it off if you stick to the plan, but at what cost. Will you develop heart disease? Will you develop kidney problems? Will you develop osteoporosis? All of these are possible long-term effects of a diet that's high in protein and saturated fat. Personally I think it's foolish to follow a plan when you have no idea what the long-term impact of that plan will be. I think it makes more sense to wait until more research has been done.

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Have there been any long term studies on the effectiveness and health effects of the government recommended low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet? or even low calorie diets? or even lifestyles that revolve around high intensity exercise? I think not. So why are you singling out the Atkins diet here in this regard?
I'm singling out Atkins cause that's the subject of this thread. Whether there have been long-term studies of other diets is irrelevant.

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Not always and their lipid ratios often DO NOT improve. Low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets often lead to elevated triglycerides and lower HDL levels - both of which increase your risk of heart disease.
Not always, but it does happen which means that any study that follows the cholesterol levels of people losing weight on the Atkins plan is flawed because it's letting two variables change at the same time. Also I'm not sure why you yet again mention the low-fat/high carb diet. This seems to be a favorite argument of Atkins followers. Instead of arguing the merits of their plan, they argue the shortcomings of another plan. Whether low-fat/high carb diets are good or bad is irrelevant. Just because one plan is bad doesn't necessarily mean the other is good.

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What difference does it make? The net result is that many people improve their health by following the Atkins diet by every measure available today (i.e. less bodyfat - that's a good thing isn't it?, lower cholesterol levels including triglycerides and higher HDL levels- that's a positive health indicator isn't it?, lower bloodpressure levels - anything wrong with that?, and improved energy levels and outlook on life - something wrong with that?, and liver and kidney functions improve based on CBC results).
It makes a huge difference. What if all these results could've been achieved without the possible long-term side effects? By the way, not all Atkins followers have lower cholesterol levels and many have lower energy levels.

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Again, what difference does it make? If you are able to eat until satsified and still lose excess body fat or maintain the fat loss, then what is the benefit of concerning yourself with how many calories are being consumed. It is just one less thing you have to worry about when you follow this diet.
Cause it encourages less responsibility which is a big reason why he have an obesity epidemic in the first place. Telling someone to eat until they're satisfied is too arbitrary. What if "satisfied" means until they're bored or they've finished everything on their plate? At least if you count calories, you'll be sure when you've eaten too much. The Atkins approach doesn't have that safeguard.

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Huh? That is the whole premise behind the diet. Lower the bloodsugar and glycogen levels (and as a result, the insulin levels which blocks fat metabolism when elevated) and the body shifts to fat as its primary fuel source
His premise is flawed. He assumes the body will automatically switch to fat when blood sugar and glycogen are low. But what if you're doing high intensity exercise like hard running or weight lifting? During these activities, the mechanisms for mobilizing fat are blocked. Instead the body will want to use glucose. But there isn't any. I'm not saying low protein diets are good either. The traditional recommendation of 20% is great for couch potatoes, but insufficient for people who exercise regularly. But there's such a thing as too much protein which I feel is one of the problems with the Atkins diet. A diet should be balanced and not lean so heavily towards one nutrient.

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You forgot to mention (or did you even know?) that protein also triggers an insulin response. That will get those amino acids into the muscles.
Not to the extent that glucose does which means a greater risk of insufficient amino acids entering muscles. Also, saturated fat decreases insulin sensitivity. That means in the long run, the body will release more insulin to lower blood sugar and move amino acids into muscles and high insulin levels is precisely what the Atkin diet wants to avoid. It's a self-defeating plan in the long run since it worsens the very problem it's trying to deal with which is insulin control.

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If you don't eat all of those carbs, which provide energy and little else, then you don't need that high intensity exercise to burn them off. Three 15 minute sessions of resistance exercises (weights, pull-ups, push-ups, etc.) and a brisk walk or two per week is adequate exercise for most people in good health. Of course, if you want to be a gym rat, then you may want to increase your carbohydrate intake. But I have better things to do than spend hour upon hour running around in circles in a gym or on a stationary bike so that I can burn off that bread or pasta I ate for lunch.
Here we arrive at the real reason so many people follow Atkins. Too many of them are afraid to do any serious exercise. They view exercise as little more than a way to burn fat forgetting all the other health benefits. It's always better to burn the excess fat off through exercise than to rely on diet manipulation. But being a nation of shortcut seekers, naturally more people prefer to eat beef and eggs than go jogging or swimming. Three 15-minute weight training sessions and 2 brisk walks per week is a joke. Atkins followers keep talking about how evolution created humans to eat certain foods. Well it also created humans who were meant to move. Everyone should be getting an hour of vigorous exercise per day (not including sex). And anyone who calls that being a gym rat is just lazy. A 15 minute weight training session does very little for long-term health. A weight training session should last 45 minutes if you plan to work your muscles enough.

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But you implied it by referring to the ongoing obesity epedimic and mentioning that the Atkins diet has been around for years in the same sentence.
So mentioning Atkins and obesity in the same sentence means I'm connecting the two? Wow. You Atkins followers really are hypersensitive. The point I was getting across is that if Atkins were really effective at combatting obesity, then why is obesity still on the rise?

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It is because of the rubish like you posted above.
It's rubbish to you cause you like so many Atkins followers don't have an open mind. At least I'm open minded enough to concede the things that Atkins plan does right. Atkins followers on other hand refuse to admit that there are flaws in their plan.

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Why not eat like this for life? I see no reason that I cannot eat this way for life. I like eating this way and honestly can't even imagine eating differently after following a low carb diet for so long.
I feel sorry for you. You're only thinking of what you enjoy rather than the long-term consequences. I wonder if you'll feel this way in 20 years if and when you have heart disease, osteoporosis, and kidney problems.

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Sorry, but I wholeheartedly disagree. If you are going to call someone a lier, I would at least expect you to provide some hard evidence, which you have not.
If you really want to go through tons of journals, I'll collect the references and post them. It's been my experience that the people who demand references won't read them with an open mind anyway.

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Again, what is the basis for your statement that the majority of cardiologist out there disagree with him (it may be true, I don't have a clue since I have polled all cardiologists out there, but the point is if you make statements like that as fact, then it would be nice to have some supporting evidence). This is what irks me the most - making unsupported claims.
Well I have spoken to cardiologists. I have doctors in the family and some of their friends are cardiologists. I have friends who are in medical school. They all say the same thing about Atkins. It's based on flawed studies. Instead of reading the studies Atkins relies on, why don't you read what other cardiologists have to say?

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I'm here and I'm ready. When you post something worthy of debating we can go at it.
I've posted plenty of things worth debating. But so far, all you've done is tell me I'm wrong and demanded evidence while posting none of you're own. What you have done is change the subject by pointing out the flaws in the high carb/low fat diet as if that automatically proves Atkins is a good plan. That kind of debating is typical of people who can't support their position.

 
Old 12-30-2003, 02:16 PM   #14
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Posts: 167
wearesiamese HB User
Re: Atkins Lies

[QUOTE=DonutsNCoffee]Not wanting to debate the plan you're on is silly and foolish. This is your health that's at risk. If you don't question the plan you're on, then how will you know if it's wrong? Imagine if no one debated about the conventional food pyramid. Then we'd all still be following it.


Sorry, I don't think I'm "missing the point." I am quite comfortable with my health while on this plan. I disagree that the plan is a risk to my health. Before I investigated the plan, I thought it did sound like a bad idea. Only *after* I read Dr. Atkin's book, cover to cover, and did further research, did I feel that the plan would be, in fact, beneficial to my health. Too many critics of the plan assume that people who participate in it eat nothing but protein and fat for the rest of our lives. If you read the whole book, you would see that this is not so. Critics of the plan continue to insist that it is dangerous and a health risk. For every bit of "evidence" of this, you can find further "evidence" to refute it. I think that the people who insist that the Atkins plan is unhealthy really don't understand what it is in its entirety.

 
Old 12-30-2003, 02:24 PM   #15
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Join Date: Jul 2001
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wearesiamese HB User
Re: Atkins Lies

"Well I have spoken to cardiologists. I have doctors in the family and some of their friends are cardiologists. I have friends who are in medical school. They all say the same thing about Atkins. It's based on flawed studies. Instead of reading the studies Atkins relies on, why don't you read what other cardiologists have to say?"

Interesting. My mom, who was not overweight, and who ate a very "balanced" diet, and had no family history of heart disease, had a heart attack. Her cardiologist, very well-respected in his field, put her on a low fat diet and had her using a treadmill every day. Within the year she had another, this time fatal, heart attack. Her "well balanced diet" did nothing to help her prevent heart disease. Meanwhile, several of her friends had been doing Atkins and reporting lowered cholesterol and blood pressure. Could it be that cardiologists don't know everything? They certainly didn't help her. Perhaps cardiologists and others could be "more open minded" to other ways of promoting heart health.

 
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