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Old 01-03-2004, 09:27 AM   #1
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Question Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Ok, since I have started with my vegetarian lifestyle, I am also trying to phase out some dairy products. I use cow's milk only occasionally (i.e. when I am drinking coffee) or when it is in a recipe. I used to drink vast amounts of soy beverage, but I don't want to do that anymore. I've used rice and almond "milks" in the past, which I enjoy but I find they are very, very sweet and loaded with unwanted extras. I want to switch to some type of "milk" that is not cow or soy based, and does not use a lot of extra chemicals or sweeteners (ideally a rice or almond milk without the additives). Does anyone know of a good brand to buy? I live in Canada...which may or may not limit or add to my options. Ideas?

 
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:58 AM   #2
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

rice dream has a lot of additives but it's definitely not sweet. I like it but I don't drink too much. I'd also be interested in looking for rice milk that doesn't have so many additives.

 
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Old 01-04-2004, 06:12 AM   #3
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

You can make almond and rice milks yourself with NO additives, and also you can decide how sweet you'd like them to be (if at all)! These recipes are both VERY simple and quick.

RICE MILK:
2 cups cooked rice
2 cups hot water
maple syrup (to taste)
vanilla extract (to taste)

In a blender or food processor, blend all ingredients until smooth. This will be quite thick and gets thicker as it sets. Thin the mixture with more water if necessary, strain any lumps, and chill. Makes 2 cups.

ALMOND MILK:
1/2 cup raw almonds
2 cups water
2 dates, pitted (less for a less sweet taste)

In a blender or food processor, blend raw almonds until they become an even meal. Add water and dates and blend again. Strain any lumps annd chill. Makes 2 cups.

You can also make your own soymilk, oatmilk, etc.

 
Old 01-04-2004, 07:39 AM   #4
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Thumbs up Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Very good ideas...

Question: How do you "strain" a mixture like that, once it is blended?

Thanks!

 
Old 01-04-2004, 11:33 AM   #5
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Hi,

If you are looking for a milk or soy substitute with anything like the nutritional value of either, rice milk is not a real option. It is white and tastes okay, but it has almost no protein and very little calcium or the many other nutrients of either soy or dairy products.

Almond milk seems like it has the possibility of being a bit better, as almonds are a nutritious food even including a bit of protein and calcium even if not quite like milk, and any way of consuming almonds is probably good for you. However, how much of those goodies come through probably depends on you NOT straining too much of the raw almond out. Or, you should blend it so fine as to virtually liquify the nuts. This would probably help digestion, anyway, which sometimes is a problem with nuts.

My opinion, anyway.

For what it's worth, if you have a good reason to avoid dairy, so be it, but please be forewarned that population studies of bone loss and dairy intake suggest it is hard to find a good substitute. In the reserach on this issue, only people--women especially--who eat either dairy or sardines and similar small fish that are commonly eaten with the bones in manage to escape the scourge of bone thinning.

At the very least, you should up your intake of vitamin D--hope you don't object to cod liver oil, even in capsules--and search hard for every possible veggie source of calcium and protein--both of which are necessary for bone density. Constructing a balanced, healthy vegetarian diet is difficult enough even with dairy included. Without it, your challenges are increased.


sean

 
Old 01-04-2004, 04:32 PM   #6
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Quote:
Constructing a balanced, healthy vegetarian diet is difficult enough even with dairy included. Without it, your challenges are increased.
i have to offer a different perspective here.

i've been vegetarian for 12 years (since i was 12 years old) and vegan for 3. my family has a history of osteoporosis, and part of the reason i went vegan was in order to safeguard myself from this. (look up studies on soy isoflavones, lower protein diets and resulting decreased calcium needs, and bone density...)
my health as of my physical 3 days ago, is "better than it has ever been", my bone density is actually higher than it was before i gave up dairy, my cholesterol is lower, i've lost weight, my bp is normal, i'm no longer having chronic ear and sinus infections, and i feel great. and it's not hard at all to get a balanced diet that's vegetarian, even one without dairy, and i can say this from experience. and trust me, i'm a student taking eighteen credits and working 30 hours a week, so i don't have time to micromanage and worry about my diet all the time, and it works out fine.

i know this is one person's individual story, so you could dismiss it as circumstantial, but i do know dozens of other vegetarians and vegans who don't feel "challenged" at all by the lifestyle they've chosen day to day either. i think the "god, it's so difficult, it's risky, etc. etc." line of reasoning is complete myth.

 
Old 01-05-2004, 07:51 AM   #7
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkbondtrader
my bone density is actually higher than it was before i gave up dairy,
Out of curiosity (not totally innocent, admittedly), but even considering a history of osteoporosis, what prompted not just ONE but TWO bone density exams in someone under 30 so that you know your bone density is higher?

And most of the people I know under 30 don't even know their cholesterol numbers . . . much less whether they are higher or lower than some earlier point in time.

Well, you seem well monitored by doctors.

 
Old 01-05-2004, 09:12 AM   #8
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by auntjudyg
Out of curiosity (not totally innocent, admittedly), but even considering a history of osteoporosis, what prompted not just ONE but TWO bone density exams in someone under 30 so that you know your bone density is higher?

And most of the people I know under 30 don't even know their cholesterol numbers . . . much less whether they are higher or lower than some earlier point in time.

Well, you seem well monitored by doctors.
I have a congenital hip defect (mild dysplasia in both hips), and my hips, especially the right, have given me pain since childhood. it comes and goes, and some times are worse than others, but since the joint is slightly mallformed (ball is small and flat), it rubs at the socket and i have mild osteoarthritis. my grandmother had 6 hip replacement surgeries, and my mother has the beginnings of osteoporosis already, so i had my bone density checked initially to get a baseline, so that i could keep track of where i started if things decline as i get older. that was about 5 years ago, and i had it retested recently along with another hip x-ray after my hip had been really bothering me (thought i might have incurred some injury on top of it from strenuous hiking). my bone density wasn't low to begin with, however given my family history, my doctor wanted to see how things had progressed or changed if at all, since i had changed my diet and also stopped growing. both tests were covered by my school insurance, which will expire in 5 months, so we went ahead and did both.

 
Old 01-05-2004, 10:50 AM   #9
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Hello, There is goat's milk, if it's just the cow's milk you're trying to avoid. If it's all animal milk and you don't like soy milk, you might want to look up the nutritional value of various vegetables since certain vegetables like broccoli contain calcium. There's also various types of calcium supplement, but make sure you buy one that includes vitamin D. Oh, I almost forgot...There's cashew milk, which doesn't taste too bad. You can get fresh unsweetened soy milk in many Chinese grocery stores also.
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Old 01-05-2004, 12:06 PM   #10
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkbondtrader
I have a congenital hip defect . . .
Did you/your family consider raw/unhomogenized dairy products somewhere along the way? Do you have a fair intake of good fat (presuming you agree which the school of thought that vitamin D [fat soluble] is vital in bone formation, and many vegans don't get much fat)? Have you ever looked into Sally Fallon/Weston Price Foundation ideas about nutrition/health?

 
Old 01-06-2004, 07:45 AM   #11
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

I won't eat dairy of any kind, although my family does in limited amounts. But I do eat nuts, seeds, soy products, olive oil, flax oil, avocado, etc... so I've got the omega 3's and 6's covered.

I'm interested in the weston price foundation ideas. thanks for the thought, i'll check that out next time i'm at the library.

 
Old 01-06-2004, 05:32 PM   #12
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Thanks for the replies...

I am actually lactose intolerant, although I do drink small amounts of milk on occasion and live with the consequences. I used to drink soy milk, but don't want to anymore. I've tried goat's milk and hated it!! I'm not sure if it is an acquired taste or perhaps it was the location where I bought it from, but it tasted nasty....if mildew had a taste, that's what it would be. So, I am looking for healthy alternatives. I still eat yogurt, pressed cottage cheese and other hard cheeses that are low in lactose so I am not at a loss for calcium at this point. Really, I am just looking for a healthy(ish) alternative to cow's milk and soy beverage.

 
Old 01-07-2004, 07:01 AM   #13
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkbondtrader
so I've got the omega 3's and 6's covered.
Even the likes of Dean Ornish recommends a fish oil supplement because evidently only a small fraction of the omega 3s in plant sources are assimilated.

 
Old 01-07-2004, 10:35 PM   #14
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

well, for now, using plant sources like flax & nuts i'm doing fine. i'm on average probably taking in more than the rda, so even if some of it's not as readily absorbed as from fish, i guess i must still be getting enough.

 
Old 01-08-2004, 01:52 PM   #15
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Re: Don't want to drink cow's milk, soy "milk" or artificially sweetened "milk".Options?

junkbondtrader, And I'm sure you will continue to feel fine more many years . . . even most of those on the SAD don't start to feel the effects until their 40s.

* * * * *

But I would encourage anyone thinking they get all their omega3s from flaxseed to look into the matter. I don't know why it is not more widely discussed, but I seem to recall one figure saying something in the neighborhood of 1/70th is absorbed. And, to repeat, even Dean Ornish, who otherwise encourages a vegetarian diet, recommends fish oil supplements because of the omega3 issue.

 
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