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Old 01-16-2004, 08:40 PM   #1
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xMorningGloryx HB User
I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Here's my story, about 2 months ago I was getting into a trend with drinking the Nestle instant breakfasts made from complete milk protiens and all the other good vitamins you need with them. About 3 weeks into that, I started doing research on milk and other growth hormones in meat and everything else for a speech I had to do in school. I've always thought about going vegetarian and after reading about all the things in milks protiens and the IGH's(Insulin like Growth Hormones) that are in milk, I basically stopped drinking those and haven't really been getting enough of the vitamins and minerals I need.

I'm not really sure on what to do now... i've been trying to get non meat products from the grocery stores, but I have no idea on what to get! My parents aren't really supportive of it, i'm 16, but i'm damn sure it's the way to go with my diet because with all of the problems in wildlife today and what we're eating, it's just not right... My question is, what should I eat? On a side note, a year ago I used to take vitamin supplements from the local vegetarian type grocery store, had all the protien and iron you needed in it, and I used to be super healthy from that... but, I happened to get panic attacks and now i'm a huge hypochondriac on taking those, thinking I will get an allergic reaction or something crazy like that. But, i'm really steering towards those again because if anything happens, it'll probally be better. Another thing, since this passed 2 months, my weight used to be around 130 and 135, flucuating, but now i'm at 122lbs. That pretty much set a trigger off in my mind somethings wrong, but i've been feeling REALLY good lately. Just wondering if that too, is a common thing with vegetarians after knocking off poultry, dairy and meats off your diets... thanks a ton for reading this if you do and answering!

 
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:14 PM   #2
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Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

hey there. i've been vegetarian for almost 12 years, since age 12, and vegan for the last three of those. when i was (ovo lacto) vegetarian, i wasn't very health conscious, basically i'd given up meat because i didn't like the idea of animals being killed to feed me when it wasn't necessary for me to eat them to survive. recently though, i have become very interested in nutrition, specifically for a completely vegetarian diet.

i feel absolutely great! i have a lot more energy, my cholesterol level is good, i've reached my goal weight, i don't get the earaches i used to have all the time, my skin has cleared up and things are better than ever for me. i hope that if you decide to take the vegetarian 'plunge', or just tend that way more of the time it benefits you as much as it has me.

if you don't want to drink milk anymore, fortified soymilk can be a good substitute. silk brand has as much calcium and vitamin d as dairy milk, and about 50 percent of the daily recommended intake of B12, plus other vitamins and minerals, so you're really not missing out on anything.

if you do a search on 'vegan outreach', you'll find some good straightforward nutritional information. also google 'vegan basics'. i'm not allowed to post the websites, but there is a really comprehensive compilation of tons of great healthy vegetarian food, and you'll find it if you poke around. definitely worth the search.

my diet includes lots of plant protein (tofu, peanutbutter, nuts & seeds, beans, fake meats, brown rice, etc), complex carbohydrates, fruits and vegetables, non-dairy yogurt, ice cream, milk, cheese, etc etc...

i am lucky to live near a bunch of health food stores, and i know not everyone is, but i have to say, for me this diet is really easy and i eat a more varied and interesting diet than most people i know (non-vegetarian friends are always wanting me to cook vegan for them).

so i'd say just be open to trying new foods and have a good time with it!
if your parents are concerned, you could have them look at some books on vegetarian diets at the library- that would reassure them. also, taking a multivitamin probably isn't completely necessary, but it's not a bad idea. as long as you're not taking mega doses of anything, it won't hurt you.

good luck!
if you have other specific questions, i'd be happy to take a crack.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xMorningGloryx
Here's my story, about 2 months ago I was getting into a trend with drinking the Nestle instant breakfasts made from complete milk protiens and all the other good vitamins you need with them. About 3 weeks into that, I started doing research on milk and other growth hormones in meat and everything else for a speech I had to do in school. I've always thought about going vegetarian and after reading about all the things in milks protiens and the IGH's(Insulin like Growth Hormones) that are in milk, I basically stopped drinking those and haven't really been getting enough of the vitamins and minerals I need.

I'm not really sure on what to do now... i've been trying to get non meat products from the grocery stores, but I have no idea on what to get! My parents aren't really supportive of it, i'm 16, but i'm damn sure it's the way to go with my diet because with all of the problems in wildlife today and what we're eating, it's just not right... My question is, what should I eat? On a side note, a year ago I used to take vitamin supplements from the local vegetarian type grocery store, had all the protien and iron you needed in it, and I used to be super healthy from that... but, I happened to get panic attacks and now i'm a huge hypochondriac on taking those, thinking I will get an allergic reaction or something crazy like that. But, i'm really steering towards those again because if anything happens, it'll probally be better. Another thing, since this passed 2 months, my weight used to be around 130 and 135, flucuating, but now i'm at 122lbs. That pretty much set a trigger off in my mind somethings wrong, but i've been feeling REALLY good lately. Just wondering if that too, is a common thing with vegetarians after knocking off poultry, dairy and meats off your diets... thanks a ton for reading this if you do and answering!

 
Old 01-17-2004, 07:54 AM   #3
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wearesiamese HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Until you really get into it and get the hang of it, there are some pretty nice prepared foods you can start with. Boca burgers are great, and your parents would approve because they have as much protein as meat. Also, go to the organic area of the freezer section... there is a brand called Amy's that makes some very tasty vegan food.

 
Old 01-17-2004, 08:42 AM   #4
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xMorningGloryx HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Thanks a ton for the info! Does the weight thing seem like a problem at all?

 
Old 01-17-2004, 08:55 AM   #5
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junkbondtrader HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Weight shouldn't be a problem. If you're concerned and don't want to lose any more, try including foods with more good fats like walnuts and other nuts, peanutbutter(without hydrogenated oils), olive oil and other plant oils, avocados, olives, etc. Also, tofu, soymilk, non-dairy margarine (again, try to find one without hydrogenated oils) and many prepared foods have a significant amount of fat. (fats have nine calories per gram, whereas protein and carbohydrates have four...) If you add some of these to your routine, you should have no problem maintaining your weight.



Quote:
Originally Posted by xMorningGloryx
Thanks a ton for the info! Does the weight thing seem like a problem at all?

 
Old 01-17-2004, 05:12 PM   #6
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cricketchicket HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

The same thing is happening to me. Although, I began my vegetarianism about 2.5 weeks ago. Already, my boyfriend has noticed that I've lost some weight, and I can feel my clothes getting looser. However, I think that I gained some weight over Christmas, and as I am an elementary school teacher now back at work after the holidays and constantly running around my classroom/walking to work & back each day, I think the weight is just naturally coming off again. However, time will tell! I would not mind loosing a teeny bit of weight after those holiday treats!

Good luck to you.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 09:49 AM   #7
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nenofury HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Morning Glory, as a teenager you will do much harm to your body by not eating animal products. Animal proteins are the ONLY source of certain essential amino acids that are REQUIRED for proper growth. Please, please, please do not venture down this path until at least age 21. Even then it is not recommended, but at least you wouldn't have stunted your mental and physical growth.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 12:16 PM   #8
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junkbondtrader HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nenofury
Morning Glory, as a teenager you will do much harm to your body by not eating animal products. Animal proteins are the ONLY source of certain essential amino acids that are REQUIRED for proper growth. Please, please, please do not venture down this path until at least age 21. Even then it is not recommended, but at least you wouldn't have stunted your mental and physical growth.
No offense, but that statement is utterly ridiculous.

I know people who have been vegan from the time they were weaned and are not "stunted" in any way shape or form. I have also been a vegetarian since I was a pre-teen and have been active in sports (basketball, softball, cross country, hiking) for years, developed completely normally, and graduated in the top five percent of my class. In what sense would you call that "stunted"?

It is COMPLETELY possible to get ALL of the essential amino acids (ones which your body cannot produce on its own) from non-animal sources. Do your research before you make alarmist (and incorrect) statements like these.

Last edited by junkbondtrader; 01-22-2004 at 12:17 PM.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 01:21 PM   #9
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nenofury HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkbondtrader
No offense, but that statement is utterly ridiculous.

I know people who have been vegan from the time they were weaned and are not "stunted" in any way shape or form. I have also been a vegetarian since I was a pre-teen and have been active in sports (basketball, softball, cross country, hiking) for years, developed completely normally, and graduated in the top five percent of my class. In what sense would you call that "stunted"?

It is COMPLETELY possible to get ALL of the essential amino acids (ones which your body cannot produce on its own) from non-animal sources. Do your research before you make alarmist (and incorrect) statements like these.

You are wrong. Lysine, methionine, threonine and tryptophan are only available from animal sources. The synthetics are garbage. No credible doctor, nutritionist, or endocrinologist would recommend a vegan diet over one that includes animal products. If you don't want to eat animals, then fine. But do not lie to someone to bring them on your side. A vegan diet has slight mental, but definite physical consequences such as lower bone density and decreased muscle mass. A person who is still growing should NEVER attempt this type of dietary restriction. Shame on you for suggesting otherwise.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 01:51 PM   #10
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junkbondtrader HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nenofury
You are wrong. Lysine, methionine, threonine and tryptophan are only available from animal sources. The synthetics are garbage. No credible doctor, nutritionist, or endocrinologist would recommend a vegan diet over one that includes animal products. If you don't want to eat animals, then fine. But do not lie to someone to bring them on your side. A vegan diet has slight mental, but definite physical consequences such as lower bone density and decreased muscle mass. A person who is still growing should NEVER attempt this type of dietary restriction. Shame on you for suggesting otherwise.

Oh please.
Stop making ***** up as you go along. There are non-animal sources of each of the amino acids you mentioned. I'm not "lying to bring someone to my side". You are the one giving misinformation. Maybe this will clear it up for you.

LYSINE- Apples, apricots, grapes, papayas, pears, alfalfa, beets, carrots, celery, cucumber, dandelion greens, parsley, spinach, turnip greens.

METHIONINE- Apples, pineapples, Brazil nuts, filberts, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, chives, dock (sorrel), garlic, horseradish, kale, watercress.

THRENOINE- Papayas, alfalfa sprouts, carrots, green leafy vegetables such as celery, collards, kale, and lettuce (especially iceberg), lima beans, laver (Nori -- a sea vegetable).

TRYPTOPHAN-Alfalfa, brussel sprouts, carrots, celery, chives, dandelion greens, endive, fennel, snap beans, spinach, turnips, nutritional yeast.

Foods listed below are considered complete proteins, meaning they contain all of the essential amino acids :
Nuts, Soy foods, such as tofu, tempeh, miso, and soy milk, Sprouted seeds, Grains, especially amaranth and quinoa, are highest in protein and are high-quality proteins, Beans and legumes, especially when eaten raw,
Spirulina and chorella (blue-green algae), which are over 60 percent protein.


Also, my bone density has gone up since giving up dairy and eggs, and was plenty normal to begin with thankyouverylittle, and my muscle mass is just fine. So don't you worry about it.

Here are just a handful of the many credible doctors and nutritionists who do recommend a vegan diet: Dean Ornish, Brenda Davis, Michael Greger, Neal Barnard, Jack Norris, Nanci Grayson, Virginia Messina, and the list goes on...

I notice you don't even attempt to back up any of your claims...

Last edited by junkbondtrader; 01-22-2004 at 10:52 PM.

 
Old 01-22-2004, 07:02 PM   #11
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xMorningGloryx HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

I eat a majority of those foods whenever I can, so I guess i'm alright... and after checking my weight just now, i'm still at 120, which is awesome since it's not fluctuating when I thought it was and to those comments about no meats, i've felt pretty good the passed couple of weeks physically, but mentally is a whole different story

 
Old 01-23-2004, 06:11 AM   #12
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nenofury HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkbondtrader
Oh please.
Stop making ***** up as you go along. There are non-animal sources of each of the amino acids you mentioned. I'm not "lying to bring someone to my side". You are the one giving misinformation. Maybe this will clear it up for you.

LYSINE- Apples, apricots, grapes, papayas, pears, alfalfa, beets, carrots, celery, cucumber, dandelion greens, parsley, spinach, turnip greens.

METHIONINE- Apples, pineapples, Brazil nuts, filberts, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, chives, dock (sorrel), garlic, horseradish, kale, watercress.

THRENOINE- Papayas, alfalfa sprouts, carrots, green leafy vegetables such as celery, collards, kale, and lettuce (especially iceberg), lima beans, laver (Nori -- a sea vegetable).

TRYPTOPHAN-Alfalfa, brussel sprouts, carrots, celery, chives, dandelion greens, endive, fennel, snap beans, spinach, turnips, nutritional yeast.

Foods listed below are considered complete proteins, meaning they contain all of the essential amino acids :
Nuts, Soy foods, such as tofu, tempeh, miso, and soy milk, Sprouted seeds, Grains, especially amaranth and quinoa, are highest in protein and are high-quality proteins, Beans and legumes, especially when eaten raw,
Spirulina and chorella (blue-green algae), which are over 60 percent protein.


Also, my bone density has gone up since giving up dairy and eggs, and was plenty normal to begin with thankyouverylittle, and my muscle mass is just fine. So don't you worry about it.

Here are just a handful of the many credible doctors and nutritionists who do recommend a vegan diet: Dean Ornish, Brenda Davis, Michael Greger, Neal Barnard, Jack Norris, Nanci Grayson, Virginia Messina, and the list goes on...

I notice you don't even attempt to back up any of your claims...
You would have to eat close to 6,000 calories of these foods per day to get the required nutrients. Go ahead and do that, be my guest. You will be hugely fat and unhealty if you aren't already. Even if you aren't large, I guarentee with a carb only diet you are at least 25% bodyfat. If you aren't going to believe the science then just believe your eyes. Ever notice that vegans are always flabby and weak?? Maybe a few are skinny and weak?? And as far as sources go....open up the yellow pages under Internist and Endocrinologist. ALL of them will agree with me. You name a few crackpot hippies and call it proof??? Hah. The only reason to eat vegan is if you can't possibly stomach the thought of eating an animal. If you are simply looking for a healty diet, then forget about it....and eat meat.

 
Old 01-23-2004, 07:38 AM   #13
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wearesiamese HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Even though I am a meat eater, I agree with Junkbondtrader. There are lots of ways to get what you need without animal protein.

 
Old 01-23-2004, 07:49 AM   #14
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nenofury HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wearesiamese
Even though I am a meat eater, I agree with Junkbondtrader. There are lots of ways to get what you need without animal protein.
Wrong. You are reading a biased source. Only vegans or people that advocate for them such as PETA will spout that nonsense. Why do you think we have incisors, cuspids, bicuspids, and molars??? You can eat mostly vegetables, but for optimal health you have to consume some animal proteins. A vegan diet is incomplete and should only be attempted for ethical reasons. There are no health benefits to it, just consequences.

 
Old 01-23-2004, 07:52 AM   #15
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wearesiamese HB User
Re: I need some info from you vegetarians + vegans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nenofury
Wrong. You are reading a biased source. Only vegans or people that advocate for them such as PETA will spout that nonsense. Why do you think we have incisors, cuspids, bicuspids, and molars??? You can eat mostly vegetables, but for optimal health you have to consume some animal proteins. A vegan diet is incomplete and should only be attempted for ethical reasons. There are no health benefits to it, just consequences.

Like I mentioned, I eat meat. Every day, actually. But I have always strived to know a lot about health, food, etc. I do think a vegetarian diet can be complete. Why wouldn't soy protein do the job?

 
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