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Old 11-16-2004, 01:27 AM   #1
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jasmine j HB User
Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Hi, Can anyone tell me why i can loose a stone in two weeks on low carb( less than 40g) a day but when i try a calorie controlled diet i.e.Slim Fast for breakfast, lunch and then a calorie controlled dinner it takes me four weeks to loose only half a stone. My excercise pattern is the same and my calorie intake is much more on a low carb plan.

 
Old 11-16-2004, 06:18 AM   #2
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Applying what they say in many of the low-carb books, it could be a couple of things, or a combination.

Perhaps you are getting less protein on the calorie controlled plan. Protein revs up the metabolism. So even though you are eating fewer calories on the slimfast plan, you are also burning fewer calories, and thus losing weight more slowly.

Or perhaps the food you are eating on the calorie control plan is causing more insulin spikes, which would also contribute to slower weight loss.

 
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Old 11-16-2004, 12:00 PM   #3
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Hi Jasmine, On a low-carb plan, you deprive your body of its preferred fuel source (carbs), so your body converts other substanced into fuel - fat and lean muscle mass. This results in a fast but very temporary weight loss because the body is getting its fuel from your body rather than from the food you eat.

This is not an ideal scenario because it is disruptive to normal metabolic function - the body does not want to work like this nor was it designed to work like this - it is a forced physiological response. As soon as carbs are re-introduced back into the diet, your weight will typically return - and about 95% of all low-carb dieters regain all their weight and more.

Even though a calorie controlled diet may seem slower, it is far more effective because you are not likely disrupting normal metabolic function, but rather burning more calories than you consume to create a slight caloric deficit. This is the key to long-term success.

I am not familiar with slimfast -but it is possible that you are restricting calories too much, which will result in the inability to lose weight. If the body senses that you are starving it will shift into conserve mode - in a nutshell this means that your body will preserve fat as a defensive strategy against starvation - and you will not lose weight at all. To avoid this, you must be sure not to reduce calories more than 20% below your basal metabolic rate. You should never take in fewer than 1200 calories, and unless you are already small, you probably need much more than that.

I am happy to answer any additional questions you have

 
Old 11-16-2004, 01:25 PM   #4
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Slimfast is nothing but chemicals. Why would you want to do that to your body? You'd be better off eating fruit for breakfast, salad for lunch, and a "sensible meal" or soup for supper. I'm not a low-carb person. I'm a low-fat person, but even I would say the low-carb would definately be better than Slimfast. I agree with the previous poster on counting cal. and exercising.
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Old 11-16-2004, 03:54 PM   #5
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdimassimo
On a low-carb plan, you deprive your body of its preferred fuel source (carbs), so your body converts other substanced into fuel - fat and lean muscle mass. This results in a fast but very temporary weight loss because the body is getting its fuel from your body rather than from the food you eat.
It sounds like you are talking about ketosis here. The "preferred fuel source" of the body business is certainly arguable, and I don't agree it is carbs, or that the body is deprived by limiting them. But even at that, not all low-carb plans are ketogenic. Most (that I know of, at least) are aiming at evening insulin flows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdimassimo
This is not an ideal scenario because it is disruptive to normal metabolic function - the body does not want to work like this nor was it designed to work like this - it is a forced physiological response.
So, are you asserting that evening insulin flows is abnormal and not desirable?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdimassimo
As soon as carbs are re-introduced back into the diet, your weight will typically return - and about 95% of all low-carb dieters regain all their weight and more.
Do you think this 95 percent might be that segment of the population who regain weight after whatever weight-reduction-plan-du-jour they are following? Wonder what the figure is for calorie-restricted diets . . . bet it's even higher.

It always bears remembering that Atkins is indeed a low-carb plan, but not all low-carb plans are Atkins.

 
Old 11-17-2004, 05:52 AM   #6
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Thanks guys for all your valuable input. My low carb plan was not Atkins.I could eat up to 40g of carbs a day. This being bread,chocolate,milk...... I just wondered though does the body always burn fat and muscle when there is not enough carbs?.There are articles i have read that say that muscle is only burned when there is not enough fat storage left to burn. So in theory if you loose your excess fat and then increase your carb intake so you dont burn muscle you should do yourself no harm???

 
Old 11-17-2004, 07:36 AM   #7
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by auntjudyg
It sounds like you are talking about ketosis here. The "preferred fuel source" of the body business is certainly arguable, and I don't agree it is carbs, or that the body is deprived by limiting them. But even at that, not all low-carb plans are ketogenic. Most (that I know of, at least) are aiming at evening insulin flows.

So, are you asserting that evening insulin flows is abnormal and not desirable?

Do you think this 95 percent might be that segment of the population who regain weight after whatever weight-reduction-plan-du-jour they are following? Wonder what the figure is for calorie-restricted diets . . . bet it's even higher.

It always bears remembering that Atkins is indeed a low-carb plan, but not all low-carb plans are Atkins.
Let me clarify by saying that I define "low-carb" as any diet that takes in less than 40% of calories as carbohydrates regarless of what the diet is named. Any low-carb plan that forces the body to burn fat stores and amino acids for fuel will manufacture ketones. The common definition of dietary ketosis is simply a state in which the ketones exceed 70mg in a urine strip test. But ketones are present in the bloodstream at all times, not just when you are low-carb dieting. And it is possible to elevate ketone levels without actually being in a "defined" state of ketosis.

Carbohydrates ARE the body's preferred fuel source. You may not want this to be so, but it is fact. If there are equal amounts if carbs, protein, and fat consumed the body WILL convert the carbohydrates into glucose for fuel FIRST. When you omit (or dramatically reduce) carbohydrates from the diet, you disrupt normal metabolic function, whether or not the result is ketosis. Any time your body needs fuel for energy and glucose is not present, your body needs to manufacture it, and it does. Why do you think diabetics have high glucose levels in the morning after an 8-12 hour fast? Because the body will produce glucose even in the absence of food/carbs. Consuming carbs combined with protein at bedtime actually helps to control this. The bottom line is that insulin will be produced regarldess of the where glucose comes from... insulin is the hormone that carries glucose (from carbs, or manufactured by the body) into the cells where it is used.

Eliminating carbohydrates is actually one of the least efficient tactics in attempting to regulate glucose and insulin levels. Sure, you can reduce insulin production somewhat by trying to minimize glucose levels and one way to do this is to limit carbohydrate intake. But this is not without consequences. When you do not consume an adequate amount of carbohydrates you are by default consuming excess levels of protein and fat - which really places a toll on your body. Your vital organs (liver, kidenys, heart, etc) are dramatically hindered as they attempt to process these abnormal amounts of protein and fat. In a short-term low-carb diet this is less of a concern, but if it is a long-term plan, you will suffer for it. Unfortunately, many people are convinced that they are safe from these risks and that only other peope will be effected, but the people that have suffered will surely tell you that they never imagined it would happen to them.

If your goal is to regulate glucose and insulin levels you can accomplish this by consuming rationed amounts of carbs (40-50% of calories consumed), combined with moderate amounts of protein and fat, spread out evenly throughout the day. Most people can completely stabilize their glucose and insulin levels consuming 30-50 grams of carbs every 3-4 hours. Many diabetics find that their glucose levels stabilize without reducing daily carb intake, but rather by eating smaller amounts of carbs more often in the day. Other effecive strategies include regular excercise, improving quality of food, and focusing on optimizing liver function (which regulates the metabolism).

 
Old 11-17-2004, 07:42 AM   #8
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Jess75 HB UserJess75 HB User
Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpiezoe
Slimfast is nothing but chemicals. Why would you want to do that to your body? You'd be better off eating fruit for breakfast, salad for lunch, and a "sensible meal" or soup for supper. I'm not a low-carb person. I'm a low-fat person, but even I would say the low-carb would definately be better than Slimfast. I agree with the previous poster on counting cal. and exercising.
I'm sorry, but slimfast is NOT filled with chemicals. Maybe a little bit of preservatives but that's it. Where the heck do you get that it's nothing but chemicals?

Last edited by Jess75; 11-17-2004 at 07:50 AM.

 
Old 11-17-2004, 07:48 AM   #9
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modert HB User
Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine j
Thanks guys for all your valuable input. My low carb plan was not Atkins.I could eat up to 40g of carbs a day. This being bread,chocolate,milk...... I just wondered though does the body always burn fat and muscle when there is not enough carbs?.There are articles i have read that say that muscle is only burned when there is not enough fat storage left to burn. So in theory if you loose your excess fat and then increase your carb intake so you dont burn muscle you should do yourself no harm???
It really does not quite work this way. Your body will turn to fat stores and lean muscle mass concurrently - whichever is more readily available will be converted first. There are some theories that if you consume excessively high amounts of fat (80-90% of calories consumed) that you will have a greater chance of preserving muscle mass. But at some point you have to look at the big picture and ask yourself why you would do this to your body! We KNOW that excessive fat intake is harmful. And there is really no way to prevent the loss of lean muscle mass when dieting. All diets are catabolic in nature, whether low-carb or not. But low-carb WILL cause you to lose muscle faster in the absence of carbs.

I don't know what diet you are on, but 40 carb grams per day is considered extremely low-carb. A safe level of carb consumption should actually be based on total calories consumed, which should be determined by a number of factors. For purposes of example however, if your caloric intake is 1200 per day (the very minimum acceptable for any adult), your carb intake should not be less than 120 grams.

Last edited by modert; 11-17-2004 at 08:28 AM.

 
Old 11-17-2004, 08:24 AM   #10
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auntjudyg HB User
Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine j
So in theory if you loose your excess fat and then increase your carb intake so you dont burn muscle you should do yourself no harm???
There are many different theories floating around on this matter - just be aware of the source and possible influences on their conclusions.

It's also much more than a matter of carbs/protein/fat consumed . . . there is activity level and individual physiological differences, etc. The only way to know for sure is to get one's body mass calculated periodically throughout the process of losing weight. In the absence of that, what can one do but what seems best to them.

 
Old 11-17-2004, 08:46 AM   #11
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jasmine j HB User
Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

So,
A balanced calorie controlled diet seems the best way to go then.

 
Old 11-17-2004, 09:14 AM   #12
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Jasmine, A balanced diet that keeps your calorie intake just slightly below your calorie burn rate is by far the healthiest choice. You do not want to restrict calories too much because that will also cause problems for you.

I recommend acheiving a balance of 40-50% carb, 25-30% protein, and 25-30% fat. Most people do quite well with 50/25/25. You want to try to acheive this at every meal and snack, not just for the day.

And also remember that the calorie deficit you want to acheive is accomplished not only by reducing calories consumed, but also by optimizing your "burn rate." Strategies that help you acheive this include increasing excercise, increasing hydration, increase frequency of meals, and reducing your toxic load (by avoiding chemicals, preservatives, artificial sweeteners, alcohol, junk food, highly processed food, etc etc).

 
Old 11-18-2004, 12:11 AM   #13
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jasmine j HB User
Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Thanks for all the info.

 
Old 11-18-2004, 05:50 AM   #14
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Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Hello Jessica, Maybe I'm wrong about the chemical factor thoughts on Slim-fast. Could you post the ingedients of the product, please? It's just that it doesn't look healthy to me. What is the difference between a Slim-Fast shake and a Breakfast shake and Ensure. (The stuff a lot of senior citizens drink to keep from loosing weight.) I still can't imagine why anyone would be happier drinking some canned product instead of having a really nice meal. I enjoy chewing my food. I did try looking it up on the Internet and they wouldn't list the complete ingredients. Someone mentioned that it was filled with a lot of sugar on one site and someone said it contianed aspratame on another site. I still think you're better off doing a life style change rather than reaching for a drinkable meal. You can't stay on Slim-fast forever, but that's my personal opinion. I knew some of my coworkers were on Slim-Fast and Optifast and the diet didn't last long with them. They went off of it and gained tons of weight back. Then they tried all sorts of other fad diets. I won in the end....They are now trying to copy me.
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Old 11-18-2004, 09:01 AM   #15
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Jess75 HB UserJess75 HB User
Re: Slim Fast V Low Carb?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpiezoe
Hello Jessica, Maybe I'm wrong about the chemical factor thoughts on Slim-fast. Could you post the ingedients of the product, please? It's just that it doesn't look healthy to me. What is the difference between a Slim-Fast shake and a Breakfast shake and Ensure. (The stuff a lot of senior citizens drink to keep from loosing weight.) I still can't imagine why anyone would be happier drinking some canned product instead of having a really nice meal. I enjoy chewing my food. I did try looking it up on the Internet and they wouldn't list the complete ingredients. Someone mentioned that it was filled with a lot of sugar on one site and someone said it contianed aspratame on another site. I still think you're better off doing a life style change rather than reaching for a drinkable meal. You can't stay on Slim-fast forever, but that's my personal opinion. I knew some of my coworkers were on Slim-Fast and Optifast and the diet didn't last long with them. They went off of it and gained tons of weight back. Then they tried all sorts of other fad diets. I won in the end....They are now trying to copy me.
I don't use slim fast anymore because I learned more about diet and maintenence, like what foods to eat etc. But for people who are on the go, and have a hard time counting calories and such, I think the slim fast diet is a good alternative. I was only on the diet for 3 months, and I think this diet is way better than pills. If your read the label, the shakes are loaded with vitamins, however, there are some preservatives. Some people feel it's easier to use meal replacements "temporarily" to take the out the nagging calorie counting. I think it's a good balanced diet, cause your allowed snacks in between like fruit and veggies along with a good balanced dinner, and they tell you to not go below 1200 calories. So, it isn't a crash diet by any means. If I have extra time today, I'll look on the slim fast websit and post for ya!

Last edited by Jess75; 11-18-2004 at 09:04 AM.

 
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