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Old 12-04-2004, 01:51 AM   #1
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Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Hi guys,

The background to this post is that I've been wresting with myself over whether I should abandon regular milk for soy milk. I am convinced that regular milk, whilst it does have some important nutrients, is detrimental to overall health. This leads me to consider soy milk as an alternative.

Soy is said to contain phytochemicals which bring with them their own problems, such as an increase in the chances of getting alzheimers disease and thyroid problems amongst other things.

Of course there are benefits of soy, but do you think the benefits outweigh the risks?

Cheers,
AA
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Last edited by AccutaneAvenger; 12-04-2004 at 12:59 PM.

 
Old 12-04-2004, 05:21 AM   #2
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

I think the benefits outweigh the risks certainly for the part of the population that is lactose sensitive in any way.
It's nearly the same calories as 2% fat milk but I think the unsaturates of soy are safer. I agree with you that milk is a rotten food except for calves!
I really, really HATE the taste of soy milk (don't care too much for the cow variety either, though!)

I think the phytoestrogen thing might be overblown...and remember the cow milk has PLENTY of hormones for high milk production (even, in the PAST I hope, DES!)

Honestly, since you have reservations about both types of "milk" why not forego them both...neither is really necessary to your health.

 
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Old 12-04-2004, 06:48 AM   #3
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

If you aren't allergic to milk, then fat free organic milk is fine. It's pretty difficult to get in the daily requirement for calcium and milk has all the necessary amino acids in it for good bone health. Lack of magnesium in the diet is the problem when it comes to not absorbing enough calcium. Google FAT FREE MILK or SKIM MILK and see how DASH recommends you to drink it without the fat for good health. The fat, hormones, and antibiotics are the culprit. IMHO, and from doing tons of research, fat free ORGANIC milk is fine. You'll come accross some articles of people bashing milk, but most of them are either allergic to it, or come from the animal rights group. You'll also come accross many artcles about the soy, google "dangers of soy" and you'll see. However, some people are allergic to milk, and if that's the case switch. I was in the same boat as you in making a decision between what milk to choose. I came across a website about how one cup of soy milk a day is enough to affect the thyroid. And all this contraversey about the photestrogens in it just made me reluctant in switching to soy milk. I just use fat free orgainic milk in my cereal or shakes, and I'm just fine.

Last edited by Jess75; 12-04-2004 at 06:57 AM.

 
Old 12-04-2004, 12:22 PM   #4
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AccutaneAvenger
Soy is said to contain phytochemicals which bring with them their own problems, such as an increase in the chances of getting alzheimers disease amongst other things.

I have never heard of soy being connected with alzheimers - where did you read that?

If you're not so keen on soy milk, you could try rice or almond milk - they are DELICIOUS!!

Also, and not meaning to gross you out, but a lot of the 'milk' in the carton of milk is actually puss from the insides of the cows udder created by the drugs they are given to stop them getting sick.

Last edited by veggie girl; 12-04-2004 at 12:25 PM.

 
Old 12-04-2004, 01:18 PM   #5
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veggie girl
I have never heard of soy being connected with alzheimers - where did you read that?
Just do a google search for 'alzheimers and soy' and you'll find plenty of articles. Many of these try to refute the anti-soy articles on this issue.

AA
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Old 12-04-2004, 02:45 PM   #6
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veggie girl
I have never heard of soy being connected with alzheimers - where did you read that?

If you're not so keen on soy milk, you could try rice or almond milk - they are DELICIOUS!!

Also, and not meaning to gross you out, but a lot of the 'milk' in the carton of milk is actually puss from the insides of the cows udder created by the drugs they are given to stop them getting sick.
Sorry, but not ORGANIC milk!

 
Old 12-05-2004, 08:57 AM   #7
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Personally, I don't drink much milk to begin with. Most of the rest of the world does not and are so puzzled that Americans do. But when I do it is either raw or goat.

 
Old 12-05-2004, 06:25 PM   #8
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

I replaced soy milk with dairy milk in my diet and don't notice any difference. Then again, like auntyjudyg, I don't drink milk that often. I only add soy milk to my protein shake and my oatmeal.

 
Old 12-05-2004, 07:09 PM   #9
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Soy is a good source of protein and is healthy in moderation. Just try to keep it to one serving each day. Some brands of soymilk are better than others (I like Silk or Edensoy Vanilla), but rice milk or almond milk (especially fortified with calcium) are good, too! If you want it sweet, get vanilla or chocolate; if not, buy unflavored.

 
Old 12-06-2004, 12:41 PM   #10
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

So.....Alzhiemers and how does it affect the thyroid? Do you wind up with a hypo or hyper thyroid? Is there a higher risk of Alzhiemers and thyroid problems in countries that rely on soy like China and Japan? Personally, I just like the taste of soy milk better than regular and regular milk makes me nausious. Soy bean filler is in those fast food burgers, so I guess it must be really bad stuff. (Ha, ha.) There's a lot of soy hidden in our food already. If you read the label you'll find soybean oil in various products in the grocery store.
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Old 12-06-2004, 01:06 PM   #11
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpiezoe
Do you wind up with a hypo or hyper thyroid?
Hypo - and I think that connection is pretty well established even in traditional-type circles. The alzheimer business is new to me . . . I thought that was from aluminium cookware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpiezoe
Is there a higher risk of Alzhiemers and thyroid problems in countries that rely on soy like China and Japan?
Even without looking it up, I'm quite sure not. BUT . . . those countries are not eating soy in the same forms we are . . . and added to everything under the sun.

 
Old 12-08-2004, 06:35 AM   #12
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Ok...So if soy is linked with hypothyroid, why are there more skinny Asians in Asian countries than there are skinny Americans? Theoretically, Asians should be fat since they eat so much soy and are at a higher risk for hypothyroidism. Personally, I feel that if you enjoy soy, eat it and be happy. I think the attacks on soy are junk science, but that is my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Old 12-08-2004, 07:53 AM   #13
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magpiezoe
So if soy is linked with hypothyroid, why are there more skinny Asians in Asian countries than there are skinny Americans? Theoretically, Asians should be fat since they eat so much soy and are at a higher risk for hypothyroidism.
From everything I have read, Asian are eating soy in different forms than we are (not so highly processed and often fermented). And they don't have soy flour, soy hydrogenated protein, soy oil, etc. etc. etc. added to practically every processed food product.

 
Old 12-08-2004, 08:09 AM   #14
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

A lot of Asians and Indonesians eat soy in the same forms we do (tofu, edamame, tempeh, miso, soymilk, yuba (or "tofu skin"), etc).

Although soy can interfere and exacerbate if there is a previous thyroid condition, as someone mentioned, I still haven't ever seen credible believeable research saying it causes thyroid problems or anything else. In fact, soy protein is noted for decreasing the risk of heart attack and the soy isoflavones are supposed to have anti-cancer properties.

Of course all the hydrogenated stuff is awful for you, but in the case of soybean oil (which is added to a lot of processed and junk foods, which shouldn't be consumed in large amounts anyway), I think the problem is more that it's hydrogenated than that it is soybean oil.

 
Old 12-08-2004, 09:49 AM   #15
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Re: Soy - Do benefits outweigh its risks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by llamamuffinmama
A lot of Asians and Indonesians eat soy in the same forms we do (tofu, edamame, tempeh, miso, soymilk, yuba (or "tofu skin"), etc).
The devil is always in the details . . . and the different way people use words. Personally, I would put edamame in the category of not so highly processed; and tempeh and miso in the category of fermented mentioned in my post.

But even at that, what I have been told by Asia acquaintances is that the consumption of mass producted soy products like tofu, tempeh, etc. is a recent phenomenon in Asia. So is this stuff the same as what was consumed previously? It is somewhat equivalent to comparing artisanally produced cheese with Velvetta. Will the difference have an impact on health? It remains to be seen. Personally, I think so.

Also, I don't think the average American is getting most of their soy from tofu, edamame, miso or even soymilk. I even know a number of soy fans who won't touch tempeh for some reason.

I had the wrong word for the protein . . . its hydrolyzed protein . . . which has nothing to do with oil. Though I do think that soy oil, like any polyunsaturated oil whether hydrogenated or not, ought to be avoided as much as possible.

 
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