conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

Does anyone know if soy products are beneficial or harmful in the diet? I would think it's good..

I read a study that women in Asia have less occurances of breast cancer and it's being attributed to more soy intake there than in the states. On the other hand, I believe I've also read that taking in soy can promote certain cancers. (Or it might just be a case of reoccurance in the cases of those who've already had cancer.) I guess there's just no definitive answer?

Anyone lean on one side?

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

hi i nanny for two naturopathic dr's and they are adamently against soy. they say its very controvesial though. fermented soy they say is not as bad but they do not touch soy products. i didn't get the full story but they say that the media has overpromoted the idea of asian eating it for health reasons. they will often eat a little bit of tofu (miso soups) before meals for help with digestion, but do not rely on it for nutrition. they say soy products are very foreign to the body and in order for the body to do something with it, chemicals are added to soy product (without the chemicals you would be very gassy). so you are in essence getting a foregin substance and chemicals.
i don't know much more, but i am sure you can look it up on the net.

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

if we are gonna start talking about chemicals, you better watch everything you put in your mouth...unless your talking organic fruits, organic vegetables and, organic meat...also brown rice..if you want my opinion the correct way to eat is to vary with your grains..dont over do it with wheat products..you should have a variety of grains in your diet everyday..Rice grains, Millet, Buckwheat, Spelt, Kamut, Quinoa, Corn, Tapioca..and, the big ol' wheat stuff..this would be a good variety of foods, if you eat like this then Soy will be well tolerated..Soy is easy to digest IF you eat very healthy everyday..just dont over do it with Soy but, please eat a variety of grains. :)..

capish ;)..

wheat is filled with chemicals..IMO/ rice and, corn are very friendly. :)

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

Fearful,
I think soy products are a very useful food, they are a VERY high protein source with an oil component that is polyunsaturated. I think their versatility lends them to more uses than perhaps any food on the planet.

I LOVE tofu (fermented soy flour) and I eat it for 3 lunches every week (250 grams.) I use the firm and slice into 1/3 inch slices and sprinkle with Szechuan sauce, toasted sesame oil, and dark soy sauce...just a little to keep the sodium down.
This is a cheap filling, low-cal, high-protein DELICIOUS lunch.

For snacks, I prefer roasted soy-nuts to peanuts.

Any vegan (I'm not) who tries to get adequate protein without soy is fighting a steep uphill battle.

Personally, I thing most of the nay-saying about soy comes from the VERY rich cattle and dairy industries in the United States...and their many lobby groups and "Foundations." Remember nobody ever dies of MAD TOFU DISEASE or SOY SALMONELLA or got mercury poisoning from soy sauce (maybe high BLOOD pressure, but that's another story:D:D)

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

I totally agree with Losec. I think soy is okay in small amounts unless you have a predisposed thyroid condition that would be somewhere along your family tree. Yes, Asians have low rates of cancer but yet a high percentage of goiter and thyroid problems. I would not do more that one seving a day. I'm just as confused as you are about the soy. ONe minute I'm buying soy milk, and the next minute im buying Organic Cow's milk, LOL. I don't know but I need my milk(right Losec) and right now I'm drinking soy and don't consume ANY other soy products. OH and make sure that it's all natural soy and organic and not conventional since it's a highly sprayed crop. This is just my opinion, and last week I had a different opinion but finally came to a conclusion to just consume it in SMALL amounts. That's just me though.

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

I'm in the anti-soy camp. It's a very easy position for me to take, though. After going through a period of adding soy to my diet, I was quickly on my way to developing/manifesting an allergy or something to it.

There is lots to read on both sides, coming from many sources. (And some anti-soy people are equally anti-mainstream livestock, so it can't be explained away so easily.)

I hate these eating habit comparisons that include just one food item. There are a number of differences in the eating habits of Asians from Americans; Asian eating habits are far from homogenous; most of the soy products we are eating in the western are different from soy products consumed in Asia, etc., etc.

However, even the anti-soy people concede that fermentation gets rid of most of the objectional properties of soy, so the easy route in to include only (or mostly) fermented forms of soy (which I do) - tempeh, miso (life would be much less pleasant without miso), natto. I don't know how tofu is made traditionally, but the stuff you get in the U.S. is a coagulation of solids from soy milk and involves no fermentation in the processing.

It will probably be many, many years before we get any kinds of studies that give firm answers about soy. Meantime, read up, see what seems to work for you, and decide for yourself!

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

Judy,
Tofu is "almost fermented" in a sense, both in the U.S and Asia by using one or more of several salts, (primarily calcium sulfate) that become acidic in solution. This acid coagulates the protein in much the same way that bacterial fermentation produces lactic acid from lactose and the lactic acid coagulates the milk protein in cheese making.
It's similar to the process for making ricotta where a weak acid (usually vinegar or lemon juice) is added to milk instead of bacteria, which is the usual method for cheesemaking.

The soy flour solution is cooked beforehand to sterilize it and to render the enzymes and phytic acid of soy inert.

Truly fermented soy exists, both in Asia and in the States but is a very different product with a perhaps TOO distinct taste.:D
Now the MISO and NATTO'S of this world are TRUE ferments...bacterial or fungal. They are an acquired taste like Camembert or Liederkranz and best used in small quantites for shades of flavoring...or not at all:D:D:D:!

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

I'm thinking about the contents of modern soy products. Isoflavones, haemagglutens, phytates, protease inhibitors and very large amounts of industrial contaminants (especially metals and solvents) and wonder why anyone would want to eat this stuff. The stuff is as bad as its worst critics maintain and about 180 degrees different than its proponents (soy industry) would have you believe.

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

Why would there be metal and solvents in tofu or in roated soybeans? Do they wash them in kerosene before they roast them?
Phytates are found in all beans, that's why they are cooked.
Soy isoflavones?
[QUOTE]Soy isoflavones are powerful plant substances chemically similar to the female hormone estrogen. Their presence in soy foods may help to explain why people in countries where soy is a big part of the diet suffer from relatively few menopausal symptoms such as hot flashes. It may also explain why rates of certain hormone-related cancers are much lower in Asia than they are in many parts of the West, including the United States.[/QUOTE]

I'll stack the health effects of soybeans up against hamburger any day of the week!

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

The soy debate continues to go back and forth from eveything I read. Although lately, I've read a lot more negatives about soy than positives...There was a recent article I read on CNN's website about soy reducing sperm in males.

Let's see, soy milk and dairy milk are both "bad" for you. How does that almond or rice milk taste lol?

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

What about organic "Silk Soy" milk. Is this fermented? I forget, is it bad UNLESS it's fermented, thanks.
BTW hitmen, I LOVE Rice milk although it's high in carbs but i compensate.

Almond milk is OKAY, but I prefer Rice milk. I wish I felt 100% comfortable with Soy milk cause it has fiber, no cholesterol, omega 3's, and low in carbs. It's a WONDERFUL milk if there wasn't any of this DARN contraversey. Or should I say proof that it can affect the thyroid, etc.

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

[QUOTE=Hitmen]The soy debate continues to go back and forth from eveything I read. Although lately, I've read a lot more negatives about soy than positives...There was a recent article I read on CNN's website about soy reducing sperm in males.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps what you read is that soy increased the energy level of sperm IN A PETRI DISH in the lab. The concern was that if soy makes sperm more active too early in their trip to the egg, they'll be too tired to penetrate the egg when they finally get there. So therefore, women should not eat soy during their fertile periods if they're trying to get pregnant.

This seems like a bogus expansion of what's happening in the petri dish. I mean, just HOW is soy in the diet going to get anywhere NEAR a sperm when it's actually "on duty" on its way to the egg??? (Regardless of your activities in the bedroom, the egg is pretty well protected from the digestive system!) And does the media who's reporting this stuff mean to imply that all those asian cultures whose diets are based on soy have low birth rates???

Regardless of how y'all feel about soy as a FOOD, I haven't seen any credible evidence that soy acts as a CONTRACEPTIVE!!!

Rheanna

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

Today more than 85% of soy produced in the US in GMO. That in itself is a conclusive reason to not eat soy products. There is no way to know what effects GMO soy has in store for humans. It is known what original soy can do and it's not a pretty picture. Most soy products did not exist 50 years ago. The fermented products found in traditional asian diets were generally condiment sized not the massive portions found in the American diet of today. Soy products are essentially the brainchild of "food chemists" that needed a way to get rid of the "waste" from soybean oil extraction processes. Soy today is an industrially processed/created product that can be highly contaminated with metals and solvents used in processing. The estrogenic effects of its isoflavones are well documented (males beware and children too) phytates reduce mineral absorbtion, protease inhibitors can tax the pancreas etc. etc. ... what's to like about this stuff?

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

[QUOTE=Jessicca]What about organic "Silk Soy" milk. Is this fermented? I forget, is it bad UNLESS it's fermented, thanks.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, Jessicca, it is not fermented. Fermented is good - the only fermented soy most of us in the US can get easily is tempeh and miso.

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

[QUOTE=auntjudyg]Sorry, Jessicca, it is not fermented. Fermented is good - the only fermented soy most of us in the US can get easily is tempeh and miso.[/QUOTE]
Oh bummer. :(
Thanks :)

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

I'm with racehorse on this. Just simply do a web search on this subject, and I guarantee you will find a lot more bad than good things about soy.

It's a cheap product (and a huge cash cow for the producers) in way too many food items on the grocery store shelves, as well as in cosmetics. All in the name of being a "health" food and product.

One of the most worst places it's in, is, unfortunately.........baby formula. Scary

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

Don't give soy to babies...BUT
[QUOTE][B]Coronary Heart Disease[/B]
The cholesterol lowering effects of soy protein were first demonstrated in humans in 1967. In 1999, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved a health claim for soy protein for cholesterol reduction and in the following year the American Heart Association endorsed the use of soyfoods for people with elevated cholesterol. In 2002, the United Kingdom approved its version of a health claim for soy protein under the Joint Health Claims Initiative (JHCI).
Soy protein may also be hypotensive as a recent review found that two-thirds of the better designed trials reported decreases in blood pressure. Lowering systolic blood pressure from just 2 ¡V 5 mmHg has been estimated to reduce stroke and CHD risk by 6-14% and 4-9%, respectively. Furthermore, isoflavones may have independent coronary benefits. For example, isoflavones have been shown to increase the flexibility of the large arteries, and isoflavone-rich soy protein may enhance arterial reactivity and inhibit LDL-cholesterol oxidation.

[B]Breast Cancer[/B]
Early life factors are thought to play in the etiology of breast cancer. For example, breast feeding, parity, and early pregnancy, are thought to reduce risk of breast cancer. There is an exciting and intriguing hypothesis that has both animal and epidemiologic support is that early soy intake is also one of these early life protective influences.
Consistent with the animal studies in the United States are the results from two case control studies, one conducted in Shanghai and the other in the United States that involved women of Asian ethnicity. In the former study, soy consumption (11 g soy protein/day) during the teenage years reduced risk of developing breast cancer by 50%. Soy consumption during adulthood had no bearing on these findings. In the latter study, soy consumption throughout life reduced risk by 35% whereas soy consumption only during adulthood was not protective.

[B]Osteoporosis[/B] The skeletal effects of both soy protein and the soybean isoflavones are being investigated. Numerous short-term clinical trials dating back to the 1980s have shown that soy protein decreases urinary calcium excretion when replacing animal protein. This advantage of soy protein is quite attractive considering most women do not meet dietary calcium requirements. Various studies have also suggested that isoflavones may inhibit bone loss in much the same way that estrogen does.
Initial interest in the role that soy might have in reducing breast cancer risk was based on three early observations: (1) low breast cancer rates in Asia; (2) animal research showing adding soybeans to the diets of rats inhibited mammary cancer; and (3) data showing that weak estrogen-like compounds such as isoflavones can exert antiestrogenic effects under some experimental conditions. It is also widely recognized that isoflavones have potentially important non-hormonal effects relevant to cancer prevention and treatment.

[B]Menopausal symptoms[/B]
Messina and Hughes recently reviewed 19 trials involving over 1700 women that examined the effects of soyfoods and isoflavone supplements on menopausal symptoms. Six trials were excluded from their analysis, two involving breast cancer patients, two which reported data on severity but not hot flush frequency, one that was not blinded, and one that did not include a control group. They found among the remaining 13 trials that there was a statistically significant relationship between initial hot flush frequency and treatment efficacy. More specifically, the correlation indicates that hot flush frequency will decrease about 5% (above placebo or control effects) for every additional initial hot flush/day in women whose initial hot flush frequency is 5/day.
Thus, soy and isoflavones have modest beneficial effects but only in women with frequent hot flushes. In practical terms this means that in theory a women with eight hot flushes per day who experienced a typical placebo response of 25% would experience a 40% improvement by consuming soy or isoflavones; thus, hot flushes would decrease from eight per day to 4-5 per day.

[B]Cognitive Function [/B] Dementia rates in East Asia where soyfoods are consumed, are lower than those in Europe and rates of dementia and AD are reportedly higher among Japanese men living in Hawaii compared to native Japanese in Japan. Additionally, maintaining a more Japanese lifestyle is associated with better cognitive function among Japanese women living in the West.
Three clinical trials have found isoflavones enhance some aspects of cognition and memory.

[B]Prostate Cancer [/B] Worldwide, cancer of the prostate is the fourth most common cancer and sixth most common cause of cancer death in men. There are striking differences in prostate cancer rates among regions in the world, however. Compared to Western rates, prostate cancer incidence and mortality in China and Japan is extremely low; in fact, they are as low as the breast cancer rates in those countries. The low rates in soyfood consuming countries provided initial motivation for investigating the impact of soy intake on prostate cancer risk.
In vitro, the main soybean isoflavone genistein inhibits the growth of testosterone-dependent and independent prostate cancer cells. It also reduces the ability of prostate cancer cells to metastasize independent of cell growth inhibition. In addition, in a dose-dependent manner genistein decreases the growth of human-patient benign prostatic hypertrophy tissue and prostate tumors in histoculture. Although the epidemiologic literature is limited, studies in Hawaii, California, and China, have recently found soy intake to be associated with a reduced risk of prostate cancer.[/QUOTE]
It seems like a pretty good food for adults...FAR superior to most meats for many reasons (no cholesterol for one.)

Anyone talking MONEY influencing the pushing of certain foods, and internet propoganda esposuing the same should know that the meat and dairy industry FAR outstip the soy industry which is tiny in comparison. Notice the absence of a billion dollar ad campain called GOT SOY? :jester:
We've had milk and meat advertising and lobbying jammed down our throats for half a century...and the net result of meat and dairy at 3 meals every day for 50 years is probably the least healthy population in the civilized world. The soy eaters of the East have fared MUCH better!

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

Very good points made Lenin. When the average person hears the word SOY, the first thing that comes to mind is sauce, not milk.

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

I've never heard anything bad about soy products. In fact, most everything I've heard has been positive. I remember that there was a big tofu craze back in the late 1970s. I've had it a few times, but not recently. It wasn't bad, but I wouldn't say it was delicious either. It's funny how all the foods that are supposed to be the healthiest are also the least appetizing! I mean, how can anyone even compare tofu to a nice juicy California burger? :D

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 

I have no idea!! But I've heard that soy has phytoestrogens (plant estrogens) that can cause female problems. I have uterine fibroids, which can be caused by estrogen dominance. One source said I should eat soy, which would replace the "bad" estrogen with "good" estrogen. Another source said I should avoid it and use progesterone cream to level out the estrogen. I don't know what to do!!

A lot of people use soy milk to replace cows' milk. It can actually cause just as much mucus build-up as cows' milk and savvy pediatricians will not recommend it for children. It's also heavily processed, just like cows' milk.

Everything I read & hear is SO confusing that my mind is going in circles. I've come to two conclusions: 1. Everything in moderation, and 2. everything organic. There is no silver health bullet.