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FearfuL 06-14-2005 08:39 PM

conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
Does anyone know if soy products are beneficial or harmful in the diet? I would think it's good..

I read a study that women in Asia have less occurances of breast cancer and it's being attributed to more soy intake there than in the states. On the other hand, I believe I've also read that taking in soy can promote certain cancers. (Or it might just be a case of reoccurance in the cases of those who've already had cancer.) I guess there's just no definitive answer?

Anyone lean on one side?

jozi209 06-14-2005 09:17 PM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
hi i nanny for two naturopathic dr's and they are adamently against soy. they say its very controvesial though. fermented soy they say is not as bad but they do not touch soy products. i didn't get the full story but they say that the media has overpromoted the idea of asian eating it for health reasons. they will often eat a little bit of tofu (miso soups) before meals for help with digestion, but do not rely on it for nutrition. they say soy products are very foreign to the body and in order for the body to do something with it, chemicals are added to soy product (without the chemicals you would be very gassy). so you are in essence getting a foregin substance and chemicals.
i don't know much more, but i am sure you can look it up on the net.

Losec20mg 06-14-2005 10:05 PM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
if we are gonna start talking about chemicals, you better watch everything you put in your mouth...unless your talking organic fruits, organic vegetables and, organic meat...also brown rice..if you want my opinion the correct way to eat is to vary with your grains..dont over do it with wheat products..you should have a variety of grains in your diet everyday..Rice grains, Millet, Buckwheat, Spelt, Kamut, Quinoa, Corn, Tapioca..and, the big ol' wheat stuff..this would be a good variety of foods, if you eat like this then Soy will be well tolerated..Soy is easy to digest IF you eat very healthy everyday..just dont over do it with Soy but, please eat a variety of grains. :)..

capish ;)..

wheat is filled with chemicals..IMO/ rice and, corn are very friendly. :)

Lenin 06-15-2005 06:32 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
Fearful,
I think soy products are a very useful food, they are a VERY high protein source with an oil component that is polyunsaturated. I think their versatility lends them to more uses than perhaps any food on the planet.

I LOVE tofu (fermented soy flour) and I eat it for 3 lunches every week (250 grams.) I use the firm and slice into 1/3 inch slices and sprinkle with Szechuan sauce, toasted sesame oil, and dark soy sauce...just a little to keep the sodium down.
This is a cheap filling, low-cal, high-protein DELICIOUS lunch.

For snacks, I prefer roasted soy-nuts to peanuts.

Any vegan (I'm not) who tries to get adequate protein without soy is fighting a steep uphill battle.

Personally, I thing most of the nay-saying about soy comes from the VERY rich cattle and dairy industries in the United States...and their many lobby groups and "Foundations." Remember nobody ever dies of MAD TOFU DISEASE or SOY SALMONELLA or got mercury poisoning from soy sauce (maybe high BLOOD pressure, but that's another story:D:D)

Jess75 06-15-2005 07:53 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
I totally agree with Losec. I think soy is okay in small amounts unless you have a predisposed thyroid condition that would be somewhere along your family tree. Yes, Asians have low rates of cancer but yet a high percentage of goiter and thyroid problems. I would not do more that one seving a day. I'm just as confused as you are about the soy. ONe minute I'm buying soy milk, and the next minute im buying Organic Cow's milk, LOL. I don't know but I need my milk(right Losec) and right now I'm drinking soy and don't consume ANY other soy products. OH and make sure that it's all natural soy and organic and not conventional since it's a highly sprayed crop. This is just my opinion, and last week I had a different opinion but finally came to a conclusion to just consume it in SMALL amounts. That's just me though.

auntjudyg 06-15-2005 08:02 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
I'm in the anti-soy camp. It's a very easy position for me to take, though. After going through a period of adding soy to my diet, I was quickly on my way to developing/manifesting an allergy or something to it.

There is lots to read on both sides, coming from many sources. (And some anti-soy people are equally anti-mainstream livestock, so it can't be explained away so easily.)

I hate these eating habit comparisons that include just one food item. There are a number of differences in the eating habits of Asians from Americans; Asian eating habits are far from homogenous; most of the soy products we are eating in the western are different from soy products consumed in Asia, etc., etc.

However, even the anti-soy people concede that fermentation gets rid of most of the objectional properties of soy, so the easy route in to include only (or mostly) fermented forms of soy (which I do) - tempeh, miso (life would be much less pleasant without miso), natto. I don't know how tofu is made traditionally, but the stuff you get in the U.S. is a coagulation of solids from soy milk and involves no fermentation in the processing.

It will probably be many, many years before we get any kinds of studies that give firm answers about soy. Meantime, read up, see what seems to work for you, and decide for yourself!

Lenin 06-16-2005 05:48 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
Judy,
Tofu is "almost fermented" in a sense, both in the U.S and Asia by using one or more of several salts, (primarily calcium sulfate) that become acidic in solution. This acid coagulates the protein in much the same way that bacterial fermentation produces lactic acid from lactose and the lactic acid coagulates the milk protein in cheese making.
It's similar to the process for making ricotta where a weak acid (usually vinegar or lemon juice) is added to milk instead of bacteria, which is the usual method for cheesemaking.

The soy flour solution is cooked beforehand to sterilize it and to render the enzymes and phytic acid of soy inert.

Truly fermented soy exists, both in Asia and in the States but is a very different product with a perhaps TOO distinct taste.:D
Now the MISO and NATTO'S of this world are TRUE ferments...bacterial or fungal. They are an acquired taste like Camembert or Liederkranz and best used in small quantites for shades of flavoring...or not at all:D:D:D:!

racehorse 06-24-2005 01:06 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
I'm thinking about the contents of modern soy products. Isoflavones, haemagglutens, phytates, protease inhibitors and very large amounts of industrial contaminants (especially metals and solvents) and wonder why anyone would want to eat this stuff. The stuff is as bad as its worst critics maintain and about 180 degrees different than its proponents (soy industry) would have you believe.

Lenin 06-24-2005 07:32 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
Why would there be metal and solvents in tofu or in roated soybeans? Do they wash them in kerosene before they roast them?
Phytates are found in all beans, that's why they are cooked.
Soy isoflavones?
[QUOTE]Soy isoflavones are powerful plant substances chemically similar to the female hormone estrogen. Their presence in soy foods may help to explain why people in countries where soy is a big part of the diet suffer from relatively few menopausal symptoms such as hot flashes. It may also explain why rates of certain hormone-related cancers are much lower in Asia than they are in many parts of the West, including the United States.[/QUOTE]

I'll stack the health effects of soybeans up against hamburger any day of the week!

Hitmen 06-24-2005 08:11 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
The soy debate continues to go back and forth from eveything I read. Although lately, I've read a lot more negatives about soy than positives...There was a recent article I read on CNN's website about soy reducing sperm in males.

Let's see, soy milk and dairy milk are both "bad" for you. How does that almond or rice milk taste lol?

Jess75 06-24-2005 08:50 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
What about organic "Silk Soy" milk. Is this fermented? I forget, is it bad UNLESS it's fermented, thanks.
BTW hitmen, I LOVE Rice milk although it's high in carbs but i compensate.

Almond milk is OKAY, but I prefer Rice milk. I wish I felt 100% comfortable with Soy milk cause it has fiber, no cholesterol, omega 3's, and low in carbs. It's a WONDERFUL milk if there wasn't any of this DARN contraversey. Or should I say proof that it can affect the thyroid, etc.

rheanna 06-24-2005 11:44 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
[QUOTE=Hitmen]The soy debate continues to go back and forth from eveything I read. Although lately, I've read a lot more negatives about soy than positives...There was a recent article I read on CNN's website about soy reducing sperm in males.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps what you read is that soy increased the energy level of sperm IN A PETRI DISH in the lab. The concern was that if soy makes sperm more active too early in their trip to the egg, they'll be too tired to penetrate the egg when they finally get there. So therefore, women should not eat soy during their fertile periods if they're trying to get pregnant.

This seems like a bogus expansion of what's happening in the petri dish. I mean, just HOW is soy in the diet going to get anywhere NEAR a sperm when it's actually "on duty" on its way to the egg??? (Regardless of your activities in the bedroom, the egg is pretty well protected from the digestive system!) And does the media who's reporting this stuff mean to imply that all those asian cultures whose diets are based on soy have low birth rates???

Regardless of how y'all feel about soy as a FOOD, I haven't seen any credible evidence that soy acts as a CONTRACEPTIVE!!!

Rheanna

racehorse 06-24-2005 11:46 AM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
Today more than 85% of soy produced in the US in GMO. That in itself is a conclusive reason to not eat soy products. There is no way to know what effects GMO soy has in store for humans. It is known what original soy can do and it's not a pretty picture. Most soy products did not exist 50 years ago. The fermented products found in traditional asian diets were generally condiment sized not the massive portions found in the American diet of today. Soy products are essentially the brainchild of "food chemists" that needed a way to get rid of the "waste" from soybean oil extraction processes. Soy today is an industrially processed/created product that can be highly contaminated with metals and solvents used in processing. The estrogenic effects of its isoflavones are well documented (males beware and children too) phytates reduce mineral absorbtion, protease inhibitors can tax the pancreas etc. etc. ... what's to like about this stuff?

auntjudyg 06-24-2005 01:52 PM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
[QUOTE=Jessicca]What about organic "Silk Soy" milk. Is this fermented? I forget, is it bad UNLESS it's fermented, thanks.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, Jessicca, it is not fermented. Fermented is good - the only fermented soy most of us in the US can get easily is tempeh and miso.

Jess75 06-24-2005 03:21 PM

Re: conflicting info - soy products in diet good or bad?
 
[QUOTE=auntjudyg]Sorry, Jessicca, it is not fermented. Fermented is good - the only fermented soy most of us in the US can get easily is tempeh and miso.[/QUOTE]
Oh bummer. :(
Thanks :)


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