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Old 08-04-2010, 02:08 PM   #1
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Question about chicken

Would the meat of grain/soy-fed chickens be high in Omega-6? The chickens are fed a combination of corn and soy.

 
Old 08-04-2010, 05:18 PM   #2
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Re: Question about chicken

That's a good question. I know that grain/soy fed beef is much too high in Omega-6, but those poor beef cattle are on the verge of multiple organ failure by the time they're market sized. (No, I don't eat beef.)

I found a few sources that claim chicken is high in Omega-6. I do sometimes buy eggs from chickens apparently fed lots of flaxseed or something though, because they are allegedly high in Omega-3.

 
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Old 08-05-2010, 04:17 PM   #3
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Re: Question about chicken

Thanks, I just found some information that says chickens should have access to greens, insects and grain. So I think I would need to find free-range chickens, if that's possible.

Omega 3 eggs? I'll have to give that some thought and do more reading. I think the Okinawans eat about 2 or 3 per week.

 
Old 08-05-2010, 07:28 PM   #4
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Re: Question about chicken

Omega-6's aren't bad guys. They are actually pretty healthy if not done overboard. Alpha Linoleic Acid is the main omega-6, which is really good.

It is the "imbalance" of the omega-6/ omega-3 ratio that for some reason negates the health benefits of each. Nutritionists maintain that the right ratio of omega6: omega3 is 4:1, but some other group of researchers say that omega-3 should be favored 2:1.

Either way you need both, just in the right moderate ratios.

By the way, flaxseed has a lot of omega-6's too, so chickens eating that wouldn't necessarily make the eggs high in omega-3.

Last edited by bdrunner79; 08-05-2010 at 07:29 PM.

 
Old 08-06-2010, 08:26 AM   #5
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Re: Question about chicken

JohnR41,

I tend to agree with bdrunner79 on this -- it's the ratio of Omega 6 to Omega 3 that's important.

Modern food generating practices have moved from animals who are fed more "natural" diets (foraging, grazing, etc) to animals who are fed very processed foods. The flesh of these animals is no longer providing us with a good balance of fats.

Even our plant-based foods are often not "natural", they are heavily processed and pre-packaged ready-to-eat before we find them at the grocery store or fast-food joint.

So we take Omega 3 supplements, thinking that it's the supplements that will make us healthy. But the problem isn't that we lack Omega 3 in our diets. It's that we have so much of other kinds of fats, including Omega 6 and 9. The ratios are off.

I'm sure that one can find chickens and eggs and even beef that are raised in such a way that they give us a much better balance of Omegas. But they are going to cost a lot more than "conventional" options. Chicken is yummy, especially when it's raised on a good diet itself. But it isn't necessary for a balanced diet.

May I ask why you are interested in switching from a primarily vegan diet, with a little fish added? A vegan diet can provide a good balance of fats, as long as you choose good quality cold-pressed oils, such as extra virgin olive oil or canola oil or perhaps some nut oils. Or even the nuts and seeds themselves will have good fats.

I enjoy reading your threads and posts, JohnR41. You give us all things to think about.

--Rheanna

 
Old 08-06-2010, 10:10 AM   #6
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Re: Question about chicken

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdrunner79 View Post
It is the "imbalance" of the omega-6/ omega-3 ratio that for some reason negates the health benefits of each..... Either way you need both, just in the right moderate ratios.
I agree but I always forget what the "exact" ratio should be. I was thinking about 1:1 or 1:2 or 2:1 . Something like that. But even if we know, I don't think there's any way we're going to get it to be exact. I go to the supermarket with the assumption that most meats are going to be out of balance, favoring Omega-6 on the high side. So I'm looking for signs that the feed is balanced in some way. Probably "free-range" is the only hope of achieving a decent balance.


Quote:
By the way, flaxseed has a lot of omega-6's too, so chickens eating that wouldn't necessarily make the eggs high in omega-3.
That's interesting; I'm glad you brought that up. Now I'm wondering: I just bought a dozen of Omega-3 eggs and it claims there's 150 mg. of Omega-3 per egg. I don't have the exact ingredients in front of me but (from memory) the feed basically consists of 4 grains, flax and I think vitamin E. So where is all of the Omega-3 comming from? And there's only one gram of sturated fat per egg.

Does anyone have any idea where all the Omega-3 is comming from?

 
Old 08-06-2010, 04:27 PM   #7
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Re: Question about chicken

No, no wait. I was wrong. ALA I think is an Omega-3, not 6 like I said. Sorry!!

With that in mind, flaxseed is how they do it.

 
Old 08-07-2010, 09:52 AM   #8
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Re: Question about chicken

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdrunner79 View Post
....flaxseed is how they do it.
Okay, thanks. I should have known that because I've had discussions about flaxseed and Omega-3 in the past. But it's not something that I think about very often.

Now I have a comment about Omega-3 eggs: The people who sell these eggs want everyone to know that each egg has 150mg of Omega-3 because that's considered to be a good selling feature. But as you have said, it's the balance between Omega-3 and Omega-6 that counts. Being that the chickens eat a combination of four grains, the eggs must also contain a lot of Omega-6 too. But they don't think it's wise to tell us about that because it might hurt sales.

At least they can claim a good amount of Omega-3. It's something better than nothing. Beef cattle are often fattened up with grain, the meat is high in Omega-6 and they don't claim that the meat has any Omega-3. If there is any, it must be very little.

 
Old 08-07-2010, 10:49 AM   #9
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Re: Question about chicken

Quote:
Originally Posted by rheanna View Post
Modern food generating practices have moved from animals who are fed more "natural" diets (foraging, grazing, etc) to animals who are fed very processed foods. The flesh of these animals is no longer providing us with a good balance of fats.
Yes, I totally agree. It's a problem for anyone who wants to eat a healthy diet.

Quote:
Even our plant-based foods are often not "natural", they are heavily processed and pre-packaged ready-to-eat before we find them at the grocery store or fast-food joint.
Yes, or the soil is not rich in nutrients as it was thousands of years ago.

Quote:
So we take Omega 3 supplements, thinking that it's the supplements that will make us healthy. But the problem isn't that we lack Omega 3 in our diets. It's that we have so much of other kinds of fats, including Omega 6 and 9. The ratios are off.
Good point.

Quote:
I'm sure that one can find chickens and eggs and even beef that are raised in such a way that they give us a much better balance of Omegas. But they are going to cost a lot more than "conventional" options. Chicken is yummy, especially when it's raised on a good diet itself. But it isn't necessary for a balanced diet.
Yeah, grass-fed ground beef is about eight dollars a pound and steaks are much more expensive. Grass-fed beef and chicken may not be necessary for a balanced diet but it complicates things.

Quote:
May I ask why you are interested in switching from a primarily vegan diet, with a little fish added?
I have had a problem with having to urinate frequently (Polyuria). It comes and goes but is always there to some extent. I think I have a genetic predisposition because my maternal grandfather used to get up a few times during the night.

Little by little, I have eliminated most foods that I suspect of having a diuretic effect. That includes things like tea, coffee, watermelon, cantaloupe, grapefruit, spices, cold water etc.. Despite that effort, the problem has persisted.

Then a few weeks ago I started reading "The Paleo Diet" and the author stated that a diet of legumes and grains can interfere with kidney function. I decided that the only way to find out if that was causing my problem would be to eliminate legumes and grain. So I changed over to meat and vegetables at the beginning of this week.

I have at times noticed some improvement but I don't want to be too quick to declare success. I think I should give it at least a few months. I'm still learning some things about this new way of eating. And it may not be a complete "cure" but I hoping for some relief.

I forgot to mention that it's not just that I have to visit the bathroom more often, it's the sudden urgency! One minute I have no indication that I might have to go and suddenly it becomes very urgent. I have to immediately drop whatever I'm doing and head for the bathroom. At night it interrupts my sleep.

After changing my diet this week, I seldom have that same urgency anymore and I'm doing better both during the day and at night. I hope it will continue to improve.

Quote:
I enjoy reading your threads and posts, JohnR41. You give us all things to think about.
Thank you!

 
Old 08-08-2010, 09:28 AM   #10
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Re: Question about chicken

Back to the whole ratio thing. I think what I was getting at is that a high amount of omega-3's is fine, because there is no proof at all or indication that I've ever seen that a high omega-3 to omega-6 ratio has any adverse effects at all. Switch the ratio and it does.

The confusion I generated was the main fatty acid in omega-6's is Linoleic acid, and omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid. There are others but these are the main ones.

Another issue is that our diets are so high in omega-6's, we really need more omega-3 and omega-9.

 
Old 08-10-2010, 11:50 AM   #11
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Re: Question about chicken

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdrunner79 View Post
I think what I was getting at is that a high amount of omega-3's is fine, because there is no proof at all or indication that I've ever seen that a high omega-3 to omega-6 ratio has any adverse effects at all.
I think the adverse effects may be somewhat uncommon and seldom talked about when they do occur. I did some research and found some interesting comments by Dr. Sears of the Zone regimen. In his book, "The Age-Free Zone", he stated that omega-3 and omega-6 combinations must be used correctly or else disease and aging can accelerate. He said it's unfortunate that they can easily be abused because they are available in health food stores. (I think he might have been refering to such items as fish-oil supplements and flaxseed oil.)

I'm aware of two symptoms of getting too much omega-3: 1) diarrhea 2) increased intracranial pressure or at least "a feeling of pressure".

That's my conclusion based on some reading, conversations with others and my own experience with taking omega-3 fish-oil. I experienced pressure building up in my head. To be clear, I can't say with absolute certainty that it was actual pressure but that's what it felt like.


Last edited by JohnR41; 08-10-2010 at 11:58 AM. Reason: to clarify a point

 
Old 08-10-2010, 10:24 PM   #12
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Re: Question about chicken

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR41 View Post
I have had a problem with having to urinate frequently (Polyuria).
Having to urinate frequently is a common symptom of an enlarged prostate, which is common in older men.

Last edited by tjlhb; 08-10-2010 at 10:25 PM.

 
Old 08-12-2010, 04:37 PM   #13
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Re: Question about chicken

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjlhb View Post
Having to urinate frequently is a common symptom of an enlarged prostate, which is common in older men.
I have been having this problem, on and off, practically all of my life. But there have been long stretches of time when I don't remember it being so bad. One time in my early 20s I think it was due to drinking a lot of soda and/or coffee. In my early 30s I had a bad episode that I attribute to harsh living conditions (camping out). And again in my 40s due to working in a situation where there was no heat.

I think if I had an enlarged prostate I would have trouble passing water but I don't. Everytime I go, I easily pass a good volume of water. Of course, after a few times, I have to drink some water because I get thirsty. If I drink about 4 ounces, as I usually do, I might have to go again in about 30 minutes. But after a meal, I might not have to go for about 2 to 3 hours.
That might be a clue; here's what I think:

The human body is supposed to be able to produce a hormone called Anti-Diuretic Hormone (ADH). This is a signal for the body to conserve water. So let's say a person stops drinking water a few hours before bedtime. (They let themselves get a little on the dry side.) Somehow this causes the body to produce ADH and the body conserves.

What happens if I stop drinking water an hour or 2 before bedtime? First of all I would go to bed thirsty which is not a comfortable feeling to me. Second, I would still be getting up to go to the bathroom. Consequently, I would wake up in the morning totally dehydrated. That means I might experience a backache or dizzyness. The dizzyness would be because of low blood pressure. Low blood pressure is generally a good thing but dehydration while sleeping would cause it to go too low.

Why do I go less after a meal? I think a meal helps to produce ADH because it is necessary to conserve water is for digestion. That's my theory.

And it may be more than one thing. It may depend somewhat on the type of food that I eat. That's why I changed my diet.

I think some exercise like casual to brisk walking in the evening would be helpful because it would help me to sleep better. I'd be less likely to wake up. I'll have to give that a try. I don't go to the gym that often because of the distance. But when I do go, I usually sleep better and only get up about twice.

Last edited by JohnR41; 08-12-2010 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Added a paragraph

 
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