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Old 01-30-2008, 02:33 PM   #1
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HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Hi all,

I mentioned in an earlier post that I definitely had delayed gb emptying, according to my doc, who said that given my symptoms, it was of little significance. Anyway, I finally found out the actual results today-- 7%. Is it me, or is that pretty darn low? My gb is almost not functioning! Now I'm dreading seeing my doc b/c all he's going to say is that it's probably not that. But SOMETHING must be going on that's not right with my gb, because 7% is low according to what I know and have heard.

What do you think? Should I get a second opinion? Ask for a surgical consult? I'm at a loss. My doc isn't easy to work with, but I feel like he can't just ignore the fact that my problem may be my gb given the recent test results. I don't know what to do now.....any advice?

 
Old 01-30-2008, 02:53 PM   #2
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Holy cow! That is VERY low and your dr. needs to address this for sure. That g/b needs to come out.

I sure hope you get some resolve at your next appoinment. You've dealt with this long enough.

Meanwhile, with my 95% EF, we're on opposite sides of the fence for sure.

 
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Old 01-30-2008, 04:03 PM   #3
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Does your insurance require that your doc refer you to a surgeon? IF so, I'd just tell him to do it. He works for you. I don't understand this business of going back and forth. When I had a gb attck, I went to my internist. He sent me for an ultrasound. When the results came in, I went to see him. He said you have gallstones. You can have it out or suffer. I said I wanted it out. He asked if I needed a suggestion for a surgeon. I said, no. I know one who has operated on several friends and they all love him. He asked who. I told him and he said - he's great. I'll send him your file. So he did - I did and we took it out. End of story. With an ejection rate of 7%, you need to have it out and be done with it.

 
Old 01-30-2008, 04:09 PM   #4
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Wow, that's insanely low! I know how bad off I was at 0% the week before surgery, I don't know how you are holding up!

I'd tell him you know 35% or lower is bad. 7 is almost as bad as it gets!

I hope you feel better soon. If insurance lets you, find yourself a surgeon and have the results faxed to them.

Glad you have an answer!

 
Old 01-30-2008, 04:16 PM   #5
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

I agree with Zoe, get printouts of your test results and bring them to a surgeon. If you have a PPO policy, you don't need a referral, go straight to the surgeon.

 
Old 01-30-2008, 04:52 PM   #6
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Hey all,

thanks for your advice and suggestions. Zoe-- you mentioned that the week after your HIDA, it sort of "set you off" in that you had more attacks. I definitely feel like I've been having more pain and discomfort in the last week, but surprisingly I'm not doing terribly--probably because my ejection fraction has been 7% for a while and I'm just used to it! As my mom put it, "No wonder you feel full all the time-- you're not digesting your food!" I don't know if that's it, but it certainly could be.

I do have PPO insurance, so I guess I can self-refer to a surgeon. I never even thought about that as I've always had an HMO up until this past month when I finally switched. I'll see what the doctor's "explanation" is and let him know that I know 7% is low, and we can go from there....if he still insists it's just non ulcer dyspepsia, I will start looking into surgeons myself!

 
Old 01-30-2008, 08:42 PM   #7
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

I just got off the phone with a friend of my parents who was the head of internal medicine at Kaiser. He is now retired. He said that it is tough for doctors to decide whether to advise a patient to have their gb out based on HIDA results, because the prognosis isn't generally as good as it would be for someone with stones. And I guess the last thing docs want is to have a patient come back and blame them for the surgery not working. He said that the chances of the surgery relieving my symptoms is 50-50, but that if I acknowledged to the doctor or surgeon, or whomever, that I understand this, that they'd probably be more willing to take it out. He said that it really depends on if I'm willing to through with the surgery to see if it will help. He also validated my symptoms, said, "They're definitely real" (as opposed to in my head) and that he definitely thinks my symptoms could be gb related. When I told him my current GI doc's view that I definitely didn't have gb symptoms, he said, "Yeah, there really isn't room in the medical profession for that kind of dogmatic view." So that made me feel better, for sure.

He also validated my views about the non ulcer dyspepsia-- that like IBS, it's often a "waste-basket" diagnosis. He said that I should say to the doc, "Okay then, if you think it's non ulcer dyspepsia, then what do you plan to do about it?" Again, that made me feel better, because it's not help when they throw out these diagnoses but then have no suggestions for how you can feel better!

Anyway, just an update, y'all. Thanks for the support!

 
Old 01-31-2008, 05:42 AM   #8
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Hi Mizz x well done you x your getting closer to solving the problem now lm really happy for you x l bet you feel some what relieved? Good luck friend xx

 
Old 01-31-2008, 07:10 AM   #9
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Thanks, niecsey! I am a little bit relieved, but not totally. My doc doesn't think I have gb problems, so convincing him that I need to see a surgeon may be tough. I'll have to listen to him explain why the test means nothing, etc. Which is frustrating in itself, because I wish I had a doc who would say, "Okay, your ef is low...let's get the gb out!" As my parent's friend explained to me, a lot of docs don't want to encourage surgery for someone with no stones but a low ejection fraction because the chances of it "curing" the problem are lower than for someone who has stones. So essentially it's up to me if I want to do this or not-- which is scary. I wish there was someone out there who was more definitive and could make me feel better about whatever I decide....it may mean finding yet ANOTHER GI doc....I'll keep you posted! Thanks for the good thoughts. I hope you are continuing to do well with the manuka honey!

 
Old 01-31-2008, 05:44 PM   #10
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Mizzaj
I just joined the board ,after reading your post I needed to reply. I am going through a very similar situation as you at the moment. Two years ago I was having pains on my right side after eating. After a series of test my HIDA scan came back at 8%. My GI doctor was reluctant to send me for surgery as my symptoms had decreased during the time it took to get all the tests done. Now two years later the pain is back 100 times worse, in fact it is almost a constant pain. Fortunately my GI doc refered me to a surgeon and I am schedule for the 22nd of February. I am trying to get the date moved up as I really can't handle the pain anymore. Of course I have been told there is only a 50-50 chance this won't solve my problems. Anything has to help at this point in my mind. I am curious if anyone else with a low HIDA scan has had pain like mine. Two years ago the pain was classic gall bladder pain, usually an hour or so after I ate. Now the pain is the worst 4-5 hours after I eat, or when I have an empty stomach. The dull pain seems to never go away and it is also in my back on the right hand side.

Any comments regarding pain syptoms with a low HIDA scan would be greatly appreciated. I'm a little concerned the pain is from something else other than the gall bladder now.

 
Old 01-31-2008, 08:52 PM   #11
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

I was in a simular situation. No stones with EF of 15%. I had fairly constant upper abdominal pain for a little over a year. Tried the usuall usual PPI meds with no help. Had the standard upper GI test and endoscopy and all that was found was some mild gastritis at the bottom of the stomach. I never had any pain that I felt was as severe as a Gallbladder attack. 10 days ago I had it out. To early to know for sure if it is going to take care of the problem but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I went for it because I was running out of options. If this is not the problem then at least one more thing is eliminated! It was not functioning properly and from what I've been told the GB never heal themselves. I wish there was a way to know for sure but unfortunately unless you let it get to the point of being life threatening there is no way to know.The surgeon told my wife that it had a lot of visable scarring and at least some of my symptoms sould improve. So that sounds encouraging. But then again what do you expect him to say; "It looks like we took out a perfectly healthy organ today so don't be suprised if you don't feel any better? "

I hope it all works out for you

 
Old 02-01-2008, 07:39 AM   #12
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red60 View Post
I was in a simular situation. No stones with EF of 15%. I had fairly constant upper abdominal pain for a little over a year. Tried the usuall usual PPI meds with no help. Had the standard upper GI test and endoscopy and all that was found was some mild gastritis at the bottom of the stomach. I never had any pain that I felt was as severe as a Gallbladder attack. 10 days ago I had it out. To early to know for sure if it is going to take care of the problem but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I went for it because I was running out of options. If this is not the problem then at least one more thing is eliminated! It was not functioning properly and from what I've been told the GB never heal themselves. I wish there was a way to know for sure but unfortunately unless you let it get to the point of being life threatening there is no way to know.The surgeon told my wife that it had a lot of visable scarring and at least some of my symptoms sould improve. So that sounds encouraging. But then again what do you expect him to say; "It looks like we took out a perfectly healthy organ today so don't be suprised if you don't feel any better? "

I hope it all works out for you
Hey Red60,

Your situation sounds a lot like mine; I've had stomach issues for about a year now, and the only thing that has come back abnormal is my ejection fraction. I might have had a couple of attacks when this started and I was still eating fatty, rich foods, but since I switched to eating small, low fat meals, my symptoms have been intermittent upper ab pain, a squeezing in my chest after meals, indigestion, and occasional shooting pains in the gallbladder region. I guess because I'm not writhing in pain, my doc doesn't think it's gb symptoms-- even though a family friend of our's who's a retired internal medicine doc thinks that they sound like gb symptoms. But he also said that the surgery is at best has only a 50/50 shot of working. I hope in your case that it works....that would give me hope! I have read several articles where they did studies and found that people who had low ejection fractions and no stones had recovery rates in the 80-90% range....so that's hopeful. I guess what's hard is that when I do feel better (which never lasts for more than a few days), I wonder if it's really my gb and if surgery would be worth it. But like you, I'm running out of options!

I laughed when you said that a doctor probably wouldn't say, "We just took out a perfectly healthy organ...so you won't feel any better." That's my worry, too. I'm sure your surgeon/doc was being honest when he said that your gb had a lot of scarring, though. And I have heard too that these things don't get better on their own. Like trec's post below, sometimes waiting causes things to get even worse. So I'm now at a loss because the decision is up to me (scary!) and I have a doc who thinks the results are of little significance....so I either have to self-refer to a surgeon, or try another doc-- but how do I know if I'll find one that takes me seriously with all this? That's what's frustrating. It seems like everyone else on here that has had their gb's removed b/c of a low ejection fraction had docs who told them pretty definitively, "It's time to get it out!" I just wish I had someone like that who could give me more reassurance....I guess that's not how it works a lot of the time....

Again, good luck with your recovery. Like you said, if it doesn't work, it's at least one more thing that you've eliminated!

 
Old 02-01-2008, 12:42 PM   #13
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

In my case the doc was all in favor of the surgery. Like yourself it was the only problem any of the tests had identified and to some degree it would explain at least some of my symptoms. I was the one kinda dragging my feet. He told me I had an HMO and it was not in his best financial interest for me to get the procedure. He basicly told me to weigh the possible risks vs gains and give him a call if I decided I would like to see a surgeon.

The procedure like all does have some risks but is very common and severe complications are rare. You hear of a lot of people having difficultys with digestion after the procedure but those are problably less than 15% and usually these problems plague those who had a functional GB that was removed because of stones. With a very low EF you are basicly already without a GB so the odds of making your problems worse are more in your favor. So you have a 50% chance that it might help. If your wrong you get rid of a GB that is doing very little for you and has the potential to possibly cause severe problems at some time in the future.

The procedure itself is not a big deal. A few days with a tender stomach but the pain meds take most of the edge off of that. In a week or two you'll be back to normal.

 
Old 02-01-2008, 01:28 PM   #14
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Hi Red60,

Thanks for your reply....I have a PPO, so there shouldn't be anything financial getting in the doc's way-- just his stubbornness and refusal to believe that this could be my gb. It's true that on these boards you tend to hear more horror stories than good stories about gb removal. Because people with good stories don't feel the need to post, I guess! But I definitely do know that it's a very common procedure that doesn't require a lot of recovery time-- at least physically-- getting your digestion back on track is another story. I didn't realize that people with stones were the ones more likely to have digestion problems afterwards, but it makes sense. I think people with stones usually have more episodes of bad and good times, whereas it sounds like those of us with low ejection fractions have more of a chronic type of indigestion and pain or discomfort.

You make a good point...my gb isn't doing anything for me now anyway, essentially. So if there's a chance that removing it will help, I should probably go for it.....like I said, my biggest concern is this doc I'm currently seeing. I wish he wasn't so dismissive of my test result. Maybe he just feels that until I've had more tests, he doesn't want to suggest surgery or that it could be my gb. Who knows? I'm fed up with doctors. I know that much!

I'll keep everyone posted. I feel like things have finally gotten "interesting" to say the least!

 
Old 02-02-2008, 09:27 AM   #15
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Re: HIDA Scan Ejection Fraction is 7%

Hi all,

I saw a new general doctor yesterday, and she was immediately sympathetic to my stomach problems, and when she saw that my ejection fraction was only 7%, she wanted to refer me to a surgeon. Granted, she's not a GI doc, but it was great to finally find someone caring and compassionate who would take action and not tell me it was "nothing". So I'm relieved about that.

Now my biggest fear/worry is that if I get my gb out, it won't solve my problem. As Red60 said, it's worth a shot since I'm not getting better and my gb isn't functioning essentially, but as trec said, it's hard not to wonder if something else is causing some of my symptoms-- like the abdominal fullness. As weird as it sounds, it never was bad until I went on PPIs, so a part of me wonders if that's a whole other problem in itself....but I guess I have to move forward and be glad that there's now a possible explanation for all of this.....

 
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