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Old 09-07-2007, 10:54 PM   #1
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Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

What a great day this was...just when I thought jumping through the flaming hoops was subsiding I was suprised by another "Employee Health Update" and basically told I needed to schedule an appointment with the company's Occupational Physician.

Well not to postpone things I scheduled it today...apparently what my neurosurgeon and pain management physicans are saying is not enough to establish my condition for my employer.

The company had requested that the Occupational Physician review my records, which I have no problem with. I was told by my HR representative approximately 3 weeks ago that after the review that this doctor was astonished that I was even making it into work at this point...for once I felt validated and hoped that the stress my employer has been putting on me to come back full time would subside for a bit. Not so much.

Upon my appointment with him he basically assessed me...was amazed at the amount of atrophy I have in my left leg compared to my right...told me that because I'm on such strong pain meds that he wonders how I function and that I should go on LTD so that "I can concentrate on my healing and still get a little money and then when I'm 'better' I can go back to the company and carry on with my life."

I fought him tooth and nail! I'm only 31 years old and don't want to give up on my career of 11 years at this company based on a physician who is being paid by my employer and doesn't have my best interests in mind...not quite an impartial party in my mind. I also know that when you are put on LTD your employment is basically terminated and under no circumstances does the company have to take you back when your 'better'. My comment to him was, isn't working 4 hours a day and attempting to contribute to the company better than just collecting a check for doing nothing? He basically told me no...that I'm no longer a benefit to my employer...that work is not getting done with me restricted to 4 hours and that they need someone who can 'perform.' Then he reviewed my time out of work and it appears that even time away from work on vacation (which many times I'll use rather than going home sick) is being counted against me, yet other coworkers can take vacation and not have it held against them.

I know that the additional stress of this situation is not helping my healing process and the stress is affecting my pain levels greatly, however, from prior conversations with my neurosurgeon's nurse I was told that they would not consider me for SSDI as I was not far enough in my recovery from surgeries yet. This is the biggest reason that I fought to not go on LTD as I know eventually the benefits will run out and then I will be down $50,000 a year and insurance benefits.

My first call was to my union business manager who was not in the office today...I left a message and hopefully will be able to talk to him on Monday. My second call was to my neurosurgeons office to seek their opinion.

Upon talking to my neuro's OR nurse whom I've established a great relationship with over the past year, she said that the neuro group and this Occupational Physician don't have the greatest relationship. In addition, she stated that his 'advice' to train like an athelete and get a personal trainer to help me feel better are just assanine! She said, "Your already in PT 3 days a week and have been since April...what more can you do. Time is the only thing that is going to make a difference."

She stated that if it came down to it she would make certain that I am supported by my neuro for an SSDI claim. In addition, she stated that probably the best thing is that I was referred to the Occupational Physican and he is the one pushing me to go on LTD as apparently, having this 'endorsement' per se holds more weight than just a surgeons in SSDI's eyes.

I'm curious if anyone has dealt with a similar situation and looking for any advice possible. Additionaly, I'm curious if this endorsement from the Occupational Physican will be helpful in a decision by SSDI?

I thank you all for your time and any advice you can provide.
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:15 PM   #2
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

I was sort of in the same situation for seizures- I was being hauled off by ambulance several times a month after falling unconscious in my office (someone would hear the thud), and then getting back to work by 4 or 5 am to get caught up.....I fried myself. I was told to go on LTD. It's what I paid for it for- (I couldn't get STD- because of the seizure disorder), but if you have STD, by all means, use it.

You might be surprised at how your body responds to having less demands on it. I was 40 when I went on disability- and I still hate it- but I'm glad for the benefits, and to be living indoors. You can get to the point where you can't care for yourself, and then what? Muscle atrophy is a huge red flag, as well as needing that much pain medication- your body is screaming for rest and healing.

You're not a failure, and you didn't "give up". You got hurt. It happens. Nobody plans for it, nobody wants it. But it happens.

Take some time off. Can you cover it under FMLA to guarantee some sort of job if you get better within the time limits? If not, no harm done. If you get better after the time frame, and you have been with them for this long, and obviously worked through some horrible pain, and continued to try and get through it, they'd probably want you back. Talk to HR about that.

But going on LTD, SSD, or whatever is not the end of the world- it feels like it for a while, but your body needs to heal, before permanent damage is done, and you don't have a say anymore......

 
Old 09-08-2007, 07:13 PM   #3
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GracefulOne HB User
Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Neurowreck,

I just love that name...LOL...thanks for your response.

I've already used my 12 weeks of FMLA and am currently using my STD benefit at a rate of 4 hours/day and only working 20 hours/week.

I definately need to dig more into finding out what the LTD benefits are and when they run out...the last thing I want to do is get in an uphill battle with LTD and SSDI and then be out benefits and a paycheck completely after 2 years. Even having two college degrees I know that I would not make this type of income working for any other companies in the area and that is the hardest part of defeat to except.

Prior to going back to work at exactly 12 weeks post fusion (only because my FMLA ran out), I had been doing pretty well...therapy was going well...I felt that I was making progress...however the stress of working 55 + hour weeks upon returning sent me into a tail spain after about a month and a half and that is when my neuro decided I should reduce my hours and see if that has helped. My body is not so physically tired as it was working full time, however, my pain level has not decreased and it seems that my stress level has gone up immensely with all of this drama.

I realize that my back problems just as your seizures are the luck of the draw...yet I have so much guilt with knowing that if I could just get better and heal and get out of this chronic pain I could again be a valuable member of society.

The scariest thing to me is hearing everyone's horror stories about the fight to get approved for SSDI...I know it's difficult as we had to go through it for my Mother who had a stroke that left her completely incapacitated in the speech department...there was no way she could perform any job much less the one she had for 30 + years without being able to communicate...and yet until that point is validated in SSDI's eyes it really doesn't matter how stressful it is to the individual or family members applying on their behalf. Unfortunately I know that back problems and pain are especially subjective to SSDI and it seems rarely is it an easy battle for this type of diagnosis.

Thank you so much for replying...It is so comforting to hear others opinions and stories.

I wish you the best of luck.
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L5/S1 Hemilaminectomy (9/06)
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:19 PM   #4
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Most LTD plans go until you're 62 years old, or can go back to some sort of gainful employment. Most LTD companies will ask you to file for Social Security Disability at some point, but pay the balance of what SSD does not pay from what you get from LTD, so you don't lose any LTD income. LTD usually pays 50% of your salary, or if you 'payed up', it increased to 2/3 of y your usual salary. That sounds horrible, but it's amazing what you can live on. I had to cash in a 403B to make ends meet, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do-

It sounds like your body is really needing the time to heal. No financial loss in the world will make up for the loss of your leg muscles (let me guess- back injury? That can lead to permanent paralysis). Depending on your total income, you may qualify for other benefits as well.

Your doc has already said you're totally disabled- not partially, so you really shouldn't be working 20 hours/day, and if you are, and get hurt more, the liabilty can fall to you, which would possibly screw up your employers' benefits- you might need to talk to an outside attorney about this- you don't want to lose your paid for benefits, but you really need to take care of you

 
Old 09-09-2007, 12:03 AM   #5
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Thanks again for replying!

I did a search on my company's website to see if I could find any information about our LTD benefits and was amazed to find that I would receive LTD until either I'm no longer considered disabled or retirment.

Although I want to confirm and get more information from the HR Department, just reading that set my mind very much at ease.

I know you are on Medicare, however, when you are eligible for LTD do you know if are you also allowed to keep your medical insurance benefits or do you automatically have to go on Cobra?

I'm married and my husband makes a very good income and is able to work PRN for quite great pay off hours and on the weekends, which he has been doing as of late to get bills and our wedding paid off. Even though we are pretty much living pay check to pay check by choice, always paying way more than our basic monthly payments on our two credit cards, we both are still contributing to our 401k's and side investments such as a Roth and purchasing my company stocks...we also manage to sack away a measily $200/mo in our personal savings.

Right now I'm at 70% of my current wages for hours that I'm not working 40 hours/paycheck) and in addition I'm having to pay back approximately $125 per check because the company decided after paying me for over a month that my time should be recorded at a reduced rate for STD. I would say if we strictly tighten up our budget and possibly get rid of my vehicle which at $650 is our largest monthly expense beside our home, we would be fine with our income/expenses. A great Saturday night to us is a Law & Order marathon on television and a few diet sodas so at least

I give so much credit to everyone going through these trials as I grew up with my father having bone cancer and having to leave his job of 30+ years and go on LTD & SSDI. I know my parents struggled many times to make ends meet, yet, we as children never were denied the things we needed and many times wanted.

We are hoping that I will be able to get well enough to get off the Fentanyl, Vicodin, Celebrex, and Zanaflex and hopefully in the next year we will be able to try and start a family...I know if I continue to put myself under this amount of stress with my career that this will most likely never be possible. Being 31, time is of the essence in this department!

Thanks again for taking the time to correspond with me. I thought I'd get more responses but I appreciate all of them from my sole Neurowreck!
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L5/S1 Hemilaminectomy (9/06)
L4/L5 Hemilaminectomy (11/06)
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:21 PM   #6
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Please be very careful in what info you give your HR person. I was told that our conversations were confidential. Not the case! Remember who pays their salery. The company. Their loyalty is with them.
I confided in my HR person. I could barely function. I wanted to go to part-time to try to get my health in order. She told me I needed to keep my full-time hours, so when I was eligible, I could go out on STD, then LTD if needed. I kept my chin up, and did my very best. I kept a positive outlook. I did more damage to myself by trying to be tough and stick it out.
I was fired 1 week before I became eligible for Short term disability.
CAUTION!

Please be careful who you talk with. Try not to contribute to the conversation too much. Let them talk, and take lots of notes! (Do tell everything to your doctor)

Last edited by tawnyjade; 09-09-2007 at 09:21 PM.

 
Old 09-09-2007, 05:56 PM   #7
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Alot of it depends on what type of company you work for. Some HR managers could care less about your health when it comes down to the dollars and cents associated with your employment.

A quick look at my situation, I was hurt on job, but didn't report it due to "mentiality" of working in a physical enviroment. Being the company advocate that I was for over 14 yrs., I just got up and kept working. Then after 5 days, I got up to get ready for work and couldn't climb out of bed. Stayed home to rest, and next day still not better, so I scheduled a visit to local doctor for xrays to find out that I had ruptured both two discs (L4-L5 AND L5-S1).

Discussed with company nurse and scheduled MRI and a visit to Neurosurgeon. Discussed the use of artificial disc replacement, and then one day before surgery, company insurance cancelled surgery. So I waited a total of 4 months to have only other option: a two tier spinal fusion.

So now I am about 1 year recovered from the surgery, insurnace company wouldnt extended physical therapy, still having alot of pain from the damage of walking around for 4 months with disc fragments in my sciatic nerve roots, pain travels down both legs, bottom of feet burn continiously, can't sleep at night due to leg/hip/buttock/back pain and trying to manage taking care of family on LTD (60% base salary).

At 34 years of age, I never considered the fact that I would be out of job, with no chance of returning to the company that I worked my butt off for (and broke my back)....depressed, heck yeah.

Words of advice to any and all, look after yourself, so your family doesn't suffer in the long run.....

 
Old 09-10-2007, 09:15 AM   #8
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Whoo hoo about Law and Order Marathons- with ya on that one !!!

Most people live beyond what they really need to- the next time open enrollment comes up for your husband get added to his insurance- COBRA is so expensive, that it almost makes disabiltiy worthless. Keep a "rainy day" fund, because with medical issues, you'll have them. Medicaid is a pain in the butt, and with a working husband, you probably won't qualify. Can you trade down for your car to something simpler, and not as expensive? That way, you still have a way to get around (disabilty doesn't mean you have to be velcro'd to the couch all day- I take short trips to the store now and then- for basic groceries, and meds). Or, if you have access to a bus system, that's an idea, but with a back injury, those can take a long time, so a car would actually be more beneficial- but you don't have to have a Beamer when a Chevy will still get you there (I have a 1998 Camry- before that, 5 years ago, I had a 1984 Camry- had it for 8 years ). This is only my 3rd car, and I'm in my early 40s !!

The point is, you're right- you can find a lot of ways to cut back, still manage to live a decent life, and give your body a chance to heal.

The interesting thing to me is that your jobs doc is recommending you be off work- usually the job doc does all they can to get someone back to work, and NOT pay disability. It costs the company money. But, you've been paying in for 11 years- you're not being one of those they chase on Dateline- you got hurt. You are the sort this is meant for; and you might do really well with less physical demands- it might make the difference between being able to go back to work at some point, and permanent injury (and with back injuries, that can include paralysis of varying degrees, incontinence, wheelchairs- no 2 story house- the need for someone with you at all times, etc.... this time could prevent all of that).

Work on getting healthy- make that your full time job. And do be careful what you say to who- you don't know who's on your side, often until much longer into the disability process. They smile to your face- and many are genuine, but it's a risk. I'd talk to your own doc (and not sign over records except to the disability people), and only go to the employers doc when required to. Protect yourself.

 
Old 09-10-2007, 12:45 PM   #9
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Thank you both for your replies! Such wonderful information.

I am 'recording' every meeting with HR and the company doc on my digital recorder so I have 'documentation' in the event I need it. I also do keep vigilant notes in the event that I would not be able to use my digital files as I am the only party aware of this. In addition, I try to limit the information provided so that it is not held against me, however, I tend to be a bit emotional about the situation.

So here's the latest. I went into work this morning and my boss called me shortly after I got in and asked what I was doing there. She was told by HR that I would be off for the next 3 months per the company's doc eval. I told her I was under the understanding that I would go back and see him in 3 months to see how I was doing. So HR rep got called in to the office and we discussed the situation. I told them that it probably in my best interest to be off and try to get better, however, I needed more information on what my options were and also the fact that I have not been told anything regarding LTD or given any documentation on what this involves.

Basically it's up in the air at this point and the HR rep was going to contact the physician and clarify.

I agree wholeheartedly that I need to work on myself at this point and hopefully without the additional stress that this has all been causing I would feel better, however, if it means not having a job to come back to I don't know what decision I should make and at what cost.

Immediately after we were married this spring, I was put on my husbands insurance as I know how important having the benefits are and how expensive Cobra is! Plus, I was worried had I not elected to be added right away I would have to deal with 2 years of non-coverage for pre-existing conditions because of my back. I worked at an insurance company prior to my current job so luckily I learned something way back then!

I have no problem down-grading or even getting rid of my vehicle if that is what needs to be done as it is our largest expense besides our mortgage...and, if I wasn't working I wouldn't need to have a vehicle except for days that I had appointments and I could always take my husband to work on those days.

Luckily my LTD policy entails a 60% benefit until I am either not totally disabled or until retirement. So fortunate for this as I've seen that many policies only cover 2 years. I am also very fortunate that my employer has been very accomodating so far in this problem, I realize that in this day and age there is no longer any loyalty to employees no matter how long they have worked for a company.

Thank you both again for such wonderful information!
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Old 09-10-2007, 03:39 PM   #10
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

You've done a lot of things right, without the expectation of having to use them ! Some LTD companies have 2 year limits for mental health diagnoses, and up to 62 for medical issues. It's great you don't have to deal with COBRA or Medicaid. After 2 years on SSD- if you apply (which I would encourage if you end up being off that long- and you'd be surprised how fast the time goes), you'll be automatically put on Medicare- with the options for Plan D rx coverage (mine has a zero copay for generics, which has already paid for itself), and the supplement/replacement policies. Your state insurance board will be able to tell you which insurance companies have plans for Medicare supplements/replacements for those on Medicare from disability. It's limited, but my monthly premium is 9 bucks, and is like regular insurance- and so far, they've paid exactly as the booklet said they would. Medicare pays them to deal with the paperwork, so they can do it that cheap and still offer good plans (choice of doc and hospital, lab/diagnositics 'free', co-pays for office visits instead of percentages, etc). After so much time without insurance, I can now focus on the 23K+ that I owe from being on Medicaid....my monthly "deductible" was over 2,000 bucks- which is so outrageous. If I paid that much towards medical bills, I'd be on the streets, and without medication.

It's so frustrating to end up like this. Mid 40s, and already feel like my productive years are over, yet I hope and pray that I can get back to work at some point, even if it's not doing exactly what I did before- at least in the same field.

 
Old 09-11-2007, 11:40 AM   #11
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Neuro,

I totally understand how you feel about not being 'productive' at such a young age...I feel so very much the same way! I know I'm so blessed to have a wonderful husband who has been extremely caring and understanding of my condition, however, I worry that he's missing out on so much in life because of me! Coupled with the inability to be a full time employee and the guilt I feel from that...EESH! Do you have anyone special in your life that keeps you going day to day?

I think it is such an outstanding reference of your character that you want to go back to work...unfortunately many people I know that are on SSDI are elated that they can sit home and collect a check each month, my Uncle being one of them -- can't work because he has such a 'bad back' yet doesn't take any medication, only uses a TENS unit to control pain, doctors will not do surgery on him because they deem it unneccesary, and yet he can lift his 80lb grandchild over his head when he plays with him...so sad isn't it? The people who really DON'T need SSDI are the ones who seem to be benefitting the most while we struggle with activities of daily living on a daily basis. Here's a funny, I was in so much pain yesterday my husband had to help me get dressed for work!

I'm very fortunate that I when my mother had a stroke I was able to get alot of first hand information dealing with the application process for SSDI, and even though she was completely incapacitated and remains so (cannot even form complete sentences), there were still alot of hurdles to jump over to get her approved.

On the insurance 'tip', I'm also very happy that we elected to have dual coverage for insurance as I definately realized the benefit seeing my parents both have significant health problems (Father had bone cancer and Mother severe Rheumatoid Arthritis prior to her stroke). To me, the importance that insurance has in keeping you off the streets means you can never have too much coverage unfortunately.

In regards to your medical/insurance bills...that is insane. I hate to pry but have you considered bankruptcy? I too am a proud individual (which it sounds like you are as well), however, that is exactly the reason why I would consider filing bankruptcy on that type of debt...in addition to try and pay for everything else in life and then to get wholloped with medical/insurance bills is such a slap in the face. I have friends who racked up a ton of credit card debt and then filed bankruptcy and went on a $5000 vacation with all the money they were saving last year...now they just bought a brand new vehicle...must be nice eh? Yet people like us continue to attempt to make it month to month check to check because we have good values...and we are willing to 'give up' possessions like our vehicles and excess belongings just to do so...what is wrong with this society where the losers seem to get rewarded and the people that actually contribute are the ones that have the hardest time!

Well no news on the work front...my HR Rep is away from the office today and apparently nothing was settled yesterday...nice to see this is a priority! In addition HR is entering time for when I'm not at work based on STD, my paycheck was almost screwed up again for the second pay period in a row! Had I not checked up on it I would have rec'd a full paycheck and then the next check have to pay back 30% of it. It's hard enough to not have the income your accustomed to but then to have to deal with screw ups because it isn't a priority to your employer is just a slap in the face.

I'm not all negative today...on the bright side I started a medridose prednisone pack 3 days ago and while I was in miserable pain yesterday today I feel remarkably better...so I guess some good things come out of all of the misery...if I can have one good day every two weeks I still consider it a silver lining to my clouds.

It's been very enjoyable hashing out ideas with you...thank you so much for being one of my guardian angels!
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Old 09-17-2007, 06:44 AM   #12
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

I am sorry that you are going through all of this. I am thinking about going out on LTD myself due to a back injury.

Just curious, is there any type of additional insurance you can take out to cover additional expenses? I do not want to lose our home. I am entitled to STD and LTD at work that pays 60% of my income.

 
Old 09-17-2007, 08:14 AM   #13
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larbec7 HB User
Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Man this is weird, I was out last week for 3 days under doctors care and my boss just told me to go to HR and fiull out FMLA papers. he said this will protect me???

 
Old 09-17-2007, 09:01 AM   #14
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Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

Larbec,

My appologies, I never got an email letting me know you had posted.

I'm sorry your dealing with a very similar thing...it stinks!

Your boss telling you to fill out the FMLA forms is not a bad thing...it means that for 12 weeks (in my state at least) that you are allowed to take leave and it cannot effect your position in the company...I know I was scared when I first was told I had to fill it out but it's actually a huge benefit to employees!

Well I'm now off of work not by choice based on the occupational physicians recommendation...not sure what the future will hold however.

What happened with your back? What type of job do you have?
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L5/S1 Hemilaminectomy (9/06)
L4/L5 Hemilaminectomy (11/06)
L4/5 L5/S1 Posterior Interbody Lumbar Fusion with Instrumentation (1/07)

 
Old 09-17-2007, 09:29 AM   #15
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larbec7 HB User
Re: Employer Forcing Me into LTD - Looking for Advice!

I broke it years ago and have had pain for the past few years.

I am a manager for a large corporation.

 
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