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Old 02-16-2011, 10:02 AM   #1
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Recording of hearing

I'm wondering if someone can listen to their hearing once it is over with...even months later if you needed to? I wish I had a recording of it, I could then make sure everything was covered. I was so nervous when it was going on I've blanked out 1/2 of it. When your disabilities are mental you usually aren't operating 100%, if really ever.

I've sent in more evidence, post hearing, and I hope it is enough. If there needs to be more I'm sure I could get it. I'm also wondering if someone is denied, which unfortunately happens even after a hearing, if they tell you WHY YOU WERE DENIED? The first two denials were vague, they just said they didn't find me disabled. This doesn't really tell someone much, and isn't fair to not know how they came to that decision that is like a slap in the face when you receive it. It is really a terrible notice to receive in the mail. If they are going to announce to people they aren't disabled they should provide a list of employers that would hire us in our condition.

 
Old 02-16-2011, 06:54 PM   #2
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Re: Recording of hearing

They should provide a list of employers, not theoretical jobs that may all be filled or that a person doesn't have a realistic chance of getting in the real world. The SS system needs a major overhaul, like making the eligibility requirements somewhat match the actual economy or real-life opportunities. For example, there may be "jobs" available but someone with certain disabilities may be competing with non-disabled folks for the same positions, and when the economy is depressed it is even worse. (There was one case example of someone who was being stalked by her ex-bf and tormented which caused severe depression and fear. No matter where she moved the bf followed her and harassed her. She got denied by the ALJ because he didn't think her "environmental" problems had anything to do with whether she meets a listing. Never mind she wasn't safe just physically getting to work.) Same with the economy - it is disregarded because it doesn't "connect" with the listed condition, in SS's eyes. But disability is a complex interplay of health and the environment, they can't be separated and it is doing everyone an injustice to make things so removed from reality

 
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:38 PM   #3
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Re: Recording of hearing

The way Vocational Eval works in the court or in regular practice is not IF an actual job exists at an employer, but if there is a job in the national economy the person is capable of doing.

First, if we think the SS system is slow now try adding the requirement of finding actual jobs at actual employers.

Second, if Joe Brown and Jill Smith are the same age, same impairment, same education and experience would it be fair for Joe Brown to be approved since he lives in rural Iowa where there are no accounting jobs but Jill Smith is denied becuase she lives in NYC?

If we were to add the economy into the equation the SS system would go bankrupt tomorrow and none of us would have benefits.

SS defines disabled as unable to do any job for which the person is qualified and exists in the national economy. LTD is a little less stringent but is still not dependent on an actual job being available as the entire premise behind SSI/SSDI/WC/STD/LTD is based on IF the person is capable of doing work, not that a job exists.

SSDI and SSI and SSR are in a financially precarious position now. If the allowances were made for finding an actual job and allowances for the economy then SSDI/SSI/SSR would end permanently as it couldn't support this and was never meant to.
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Old 02-16-2011, 09:07 PM   #4
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Re: Recording of hearing

I think you're right, there would be no way to economically sustain such a system. The Joe Brown/Jill Smith example is a good illustration of how it could ultimately prove to be unfair Wish there were an easy solution for all of us.

 
Old 02-17-2011, 06:18 AM   #5
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Re: Recording of hearing

Spineaz you really know a lot and have helped so many and have a way with words I am wondering what do you think would help the system? I know from your other posts you are incourging others while still healthy to get like some kind of disability insurance and thats great I wish I would had the forsight to do that I know that helps kind of buffer while waiting on ssi or ssdi, But I am courious what you would think that would help the ssa system? Maybe for furture require all people to get disability insurance thru their employer in addition to what they already pay to ssa. Thanks for your opinion

 
Old 02-17-2011, 06:54 AM   #6
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Re: Recording of hearing

Unfortunately disability thru work is on the road to becoming a "voluntary" benefit. Employees can be fickle as it's great when my employer pays for it but if I have to pay $3/wk I may choose to check "no" on the enrollment form. This is seen in Life and Disability. Some industries provided health insurance at $0 - $100/mo and employees revolt when that increases. Saw a survey once where they interviewed some who who were upset and one guy had bypass himself, wife had MS, and kids had asthma and some "routine" surgery yet for him $35/wk was too ezpensive. People don't look at the big picture. I just got my wealthy younger brother to get some individual disability when he realized the income gap he'd have if he only relied on his employer STD and LTD.

Every year people ft their SS statement that shows what they're eligible for under SSDI and it's often ignored. Then people say "how can we survive on this!" But for years SS notified them yearly of the SSDI amounts.

As for SS I think the entire system has to be revamped. Maybe different divisions for different claims such as (1) claims where the person has STD/LTD. Go one direction and since the STD/LTD file has tons of medical perhaps send that to a special level examiner (2) claims with multiple significant diagnoses For to a group that handles those (3) claims where the person didn't work immediately prior to applying for SSDI or the diagnoses or med info is weak go to specifically unit. The only thing SS does well is claims for things like ALS / Lou Gherigs, end stage renal, Huntington's, and a few others are.pushed Bruce for express approval.

What can't be fixed is frivolous claims where someone files due to u.able to find a job or who don't realize what disabled really means. Perhaps like in STD /LTD legal guidelines be put in place so each stage takes maybe 90 days max. Problem with that is too many cases and not enough judges. You have a severe disability but the case before youis someone with a single level disc herniation and no symptoms. Not sure how to fix that.

Maybe even provisional approvals based on med records and SS later makes final decision which can end benefits though not get past benefits backbut how to fund all this. USA residents don't want to pay a tax for any level of universal health care and thus a tax for DDS (disability determination services) would be voted down so fast.

I encourage everyone to talk to healthy friends and relatives about choosing a job with STD / LTD benefits if they can and buying individual disability for supplemental benefits or at least something if job doesn't offer disability benefits. I Just had a friend say she wanted he son and daughter in law to apply and as a wedding gift she'd pay the premium for a few years. Still, those who are healthy feel invincible even into their 50's even if the guy at the next desk at work is a marathon running vegetarian who suddenly has a stroke with no family history!
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:36 AM   #7
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Re: Recording of hearing

I know many people even in their 60's, 70's and even 80's who think they are invincible. I've even been asked by people even in the age groups listed above why I'm having trouble getting my social security. Then they announce they got theirs easily. Yes, they did, they were lucky enough to turn 65 and automatically get it. They go on to enjoy it for many years while at the same time are in excellent health. To them, people like myself are just losers & must be pretty stupid to not get it. They could care less about people disabled before age 65. They get to also make as much money on the side if they want and not be penalized one bit like people under 65 are. If you ask me, these people should be asked to take less in social security since they have so much. Even extremely wealthy people can get it, yet many poor, severely disabled people can't even get their little SSDI they were forced into paying for. I would have still chosen to pay into it feeling it would be there if I ever needed it. The sad fact is the most vulnerable are taken advantage of with the way it is deliberately set up now.

I didn't start receiving social security statements until around the year 2002. It doesn't say on these statement my last insured date, nor did I honestly know anything about a last insured date. I've been abused by people telling me tough luck I should have known. I'm so grateful my car insurance and fire insurance payments always let me know the last date I'm insured, it really is helpful to know.

 
Old 02-17-2011, 09:38 AM   #8
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Re: Recording of hearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmoney View Post
I'm wondering if someone can listen to their hearing once it is over with...even months later if you needed to? I wish I had a recording of it, I could then make sure everything was covered. I was so nervous when it was going on I've blanked out 1/2 of it. When your disabilities are mental you usually aren't operating 100%, if really ever.
Yes, you can get a copy. My first case is waiting for Federal Court date, and I am using a different attorney. Since she was not at my hearing, she ordered a copy of it on a cd, so she could listen for herself how rude and ugly the judge was to me, even to the point of yelling at me.

Since I won at the reconsideration level of my second case, I never had a second hearing.

 
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:01 PM   #9
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Re: Recording of hearing

SpineAZ, Thank-You for your comments, I am talking to my kids tonight of course I don't know if they will listen to me they are runners and don't eat red meat. They are very healthy but you can't see the furture and I hope they will listen. I wish I had the money to pay for it for them. Thanks again for your wonderful postive comments thanks.

 
Old 02-17-2011, 12:34 PM   #10
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Re: Recording of hearing

Hi

What SS sends out is generalized info based on what employers reported to SS, and it is up to us to keep track to be sure that SS got the right info.

You can always go to the SS office and get copies to make sure the info is correct and up to date. SS is the recipent of what employers report. It is nothing like privatized insurance and never was meant to be. One lady I know didn't qualify for any SS at 65 because her 30 years employer never reported any earnings and the work was done so long ago and she didn't keep any records or ever check on anything. We need to recognize that we have to stay up on it ourselves. The gov agencies take money and redisperse it. That's all they do. Gov also is so big it is inefficient as can be. It can't and doesn't take care of individuals.

I know what it's like to be disabled, have very little income, to go through financial downturns and not know how I am going to make it through. I know what it's like to have crippling situations where I cannot function. I have had constant pain for years. I could stop working the job I have right now and my doctors would completely support 100% disability. I just want to provide a little reality check.

I think the reason SS is not working is it is a social problem, not a government agency problem. SS was originally meant to only be a retirement age supplement, that was strictly based on what the recipient paid into it, exactly like paying for insurance. Most of us pay very little into it, and so get little back. SS is not on a 'need' basis, but 'what we paid into it' basis.

The SS coffer was originally promised to never be dipped into for any other use. However some people changed that rule so that SS is regularly dipped into for aged or disabled welfare before retirement age (and often gotten simply because one can't do the work one was accustomed to doing, ie is not truly 100% disabled) which is the reason the SS bank is broke and can't even be fixed as it is currently being used. There is not enough money that anyone can pour into the account to support the millions who never paid into it. We do get what we pay for.

The money paid into SS is currently used as public welfare assistance, and not just temporarily but to give people an income the rest of their lives. People are getting money from SS that are not even close to retirement age that did not pay anything into it (called SSI, but it is out of the SS funds). Economically, nothing can work that way and that's why it went broke. The money given out is now borrowed money. What is being paid out right now isn't even in the account.

I'm not at all against welfare and have had to use it, but it should be called what it is, should not be for life-time unless truly disabled and there is no living family, and should not be connected to SS at all. Mandatory disability insurance is collected in some states just like taxes, so when disabled the one that paid into that can get temporary aid while recovering or regrouping to find family to take them in. It isn't my druthers but I live in my son's home and pay my share. Public welfare should be only for emergencies, and we need to do like Europe where families take care of their own disabled. People want to appear independent and able even when clearly we aren't. To me that is the biggest social problem we have and no gov. agency can fix it.

Likewise, SSD is not an employment service. There are plenty of temp to hire and employment agencies and then there is also vocational rehab. We need to retrain. SSD is entirely only about complete and total disability. So if we cannot be deemed to be completely and totally unable to work at any kind of profession, it is our own responsibility to retrain, network, and find some job we can do, even if it means relocating and renting a very cheap apartment or a room at someone else's house and losing all of our property and starting over. I am doing that right now.

Due to circumstances, at a time in my life when I was incapacitated from an accident, I had to live on $65 a month with no car, and have had to live with relatives. I have even rented a back porch. It's not fun, but there is no shame in it. I was born into poverty circumstances, through no fault of my own. But I also didn't optimize my education, income, savings or life and now I am aged. That is no one's fault but mine, so I make do. If I want to live alone I will need to move to a less expensive state and find a very low rent location. I have been looking around, and if I want to live alone I will do whatever it takes.

I have used public assistance and don't feel bad about it. But no one owes us their earned money. I am not saying I don't prefer better circumstances. But we need to adjust to our present circumstances. No one can do it for us. We can find creative solutions.

I don't know if you are truly 100% disabled from any kind of job. But regardless, I feel for you and sure do wish you well!

Last edited by jillian4; 02-17-2011 at 01:07 PM.

 
Old 02-17-2011, 01:13 PM   #11
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Re: Recording of hearing

It is true, there are many employment assistance agencies. Unfortunately, in some states you need to be drawing SSI/SSDI in order to be eligible for Vocational Rehab.

If you have family to support you, you can get SSDI much easier because they can vouch for your disability. If you have no one, you're a one-person team. If you already have things going for you, more things come your way. If you have no resources, it is even harder to wait for approval. Then if you don't have internal resourcefulness, it is harder to even apply for SS because you don't know what the rules are or what SS needs (that's why a lot of homeless people get denied, for example).

Fortunately some states do offer Vocational Rehab without disability as a requirement to get accepted. Hopefully more states will follow that example

 
Old 02-17-2011, 02:25 PM   #12
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Re: Recording of hearing

SSDI is in no way welfare based. In order to be eligible the person must have earned the SS working credits (detailed on www.ssa.gov). Once eligible and if disabled from working the person is then entitled to SSDI. SSI is more welfare based as recipients have not paid into the SS system or haven't worked recently enough or have never worked.

What is difficult for many to understand is SSDI (as well as employer LTD if available ) is only meant to provide recipients a portion of their prior income. The rest of ones income is meant to come from savings, investments, private individual disability benefits, other household income, etc.

Luckily having worked in the industry and being a realist I've always lived to prepare for the "what ifs". So no consumer debt, a mortgage we can ay on one income, buying quality used cars for cash we saved up and keeping each for 10-15 years, savings, investments, and purchasing a supplemental individual disability policy, etc. If I could I'd try to convince every HS grad to seek to live this way just in case. But as we all said too many feel invincible and even though SS sends everyone a yearly statement of what SSDI would pay people ignore it and continue to feel invincible. Of all the hundreds of STD/LTD claims I ever did I'd say 90% were "why me", "how was I supposed to know this could happen", etc. But it gave me perspective and changed the way I lived financially for the "what ifs" and the "what if" DID hit me.
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Last edited by SpineAZ; 02-17-2011 at 02:28 PM.

 
Old 02-17-2011, 02:31 PM   #13
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Re: Recording of hearing

Hi

The state county offices are where one can get crisis aid. SS and SSDI can't be used like welfare. It takes way to long to qualify. It just isn't for emergency use.

I do know how hard it is to be alone. There are lots of charities through churches and other non-profits and we need to call until we find people that can help. We need to find local charitable folks to help us through the process. We can go talk with someone from a large church, but even smaller churches often have food pantries and know of people that would give us a room, or something. Many women victims of domestic violence who had to leave everything behind and are homeless get help this way and so can the disabled.

To retrain we can go to community colleges and speak with counselors, and even take classes to see what we are suited for and to learn what kind of jobs are out there. Meanwhile of course we live off food banks, etc. It's horribly hard, but I am so thankful to live in a country where so many resources are available. Our local churches of all sorts of denominations take turns bussing, feeding and providing showers and a safe place to sleep to homeless, and people in the community take bags of useable clothng, food and toiletries to these places that the homless are given for free with no obligation.

If we don't have internal resourcefulness, we have to rely on others, and that means we have to admit to everyone we meet that we are desparate for help right now. I mean I was desparate so I just did it!

Then eventually someone said I have a car I will sell for 100 dollars and you can pay me later, someone eventually said I have a trailor space you can use and someone else eventually said I have a mobile home I will move there and rent to you. I had to humble myself and admit my dire need, and people do come forward. Not immediately, maybe, but word gets around and you know those people didn't do it just for me. They knew they would make money as soon as I was eligible for benefits and I did pay them for what I got. The mobile home needed the window in the door replaced that a friend found and installed. It was hairy going, for awhile, but it was a place within my means.

Help is out there, and we don't need to be a 'believer' or church member to go to the biggest charities: churches, and get some kind of immediate help and moral support. I have immediately gotten a voucher for a room to stay a night from a church.

I hope you aren't in such dire times right now!

Last edited by Administrator; 06-01-2011 at 10:02 AM.

 
Old 02-17-2011, 02:45 PM   #14
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Re: Recording of hearing

You are very smart SpineAZ, good for you!

My disability hit me at age 18 and no one ever taught me school was for learning to take care of myself or going out and getting a job. I was like an orphan with a mentally disabled mom and father that long previously had passed away. I survived by not looking squarely at life. But survival is not the same thing as 'making it'. You did well. I am glad you are speaking up. Even if it IS to the choir. lol

Hind sight is so clear isn't it? It is so important that the younger generation learn about money and how it works. SS and its counterparts are no where near a retirement or safety net. Thanks for speaking up!

The way I figure it is I don't know how many more years I have so I better pay attention and make adjustments that I still can make. For instance i now am debt free, have a savings and I am working as long as I can bring something in against that day when i absolutely cannot. I probably can never own a home again. Maybe some day i can invest a little, though. We will see.

Oh yeah your name has AZ for a reason, you reside there! AZ is one place i found that I can afford to reside. There are some nice affordable places.


Last edited by jillian4; 02-23-2011 at 09:29 AM.

 
Old 02-17-2011, 07:01 PM   #15
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Re: Recording of hearing

you certainly could not have putn it better. I would only say the ALJ you get at the hearing stage is a major "tie breaker" if you will. by the time i went to my hearing; iwas numb;felt defeated and just didnt care anymore-the fight was sucked out of me-the ALJ)mine)turned out to be the most humane among the whole process-she had obviously studied my file and was so warm anc concerned and KNEW i was totally disable-she stopped the hearing after only 5 min and told me she was ruling fully favorable-and just like that-it was finally over. It really has alot to due with "the people running the show" and who gets who deciding your case.
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