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Old 05-03-2004, 08:52 AM   #1
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mattingly HB User
Fat burners...do they work?

I have been thinking about taking a fat burner to kick up my fat loss. I already adhere to a strict workout and diet program, and I have seen results, but I figured if these fat burners work, why not give them a try.

Has anyone had any success with fat burners?

 
Old 01-03-2006, 01:09 PM   #2
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macro HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattingly
I have been thinking about taking a fat burner to kick up my fat loss. I already adhere to a strict workout and diet program, and I have seen results, but I figured if these fat burners work, why not give them a try.

Has anyone had any success with fat burners?
yes they work

Stim based:
thermorexin
EC (pure ephedrine and caffeine- no ephedra- no guaifenesin)

thermogens
EGCG (from green tea-when combined with caffeine)
Sesamin (sesapure)
Fish oil (epa/dha)

 
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Old 01-10-2006, 06:13 PM   #3
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Re: Fat burners...do they work?

MAcro, are you in the states? I thought ephedrine was banned? I'm in Canada and can get it but only in 8mg tabs without caffeine. Its sold as a nasal decongestant.

I don't understand why they banned ephedrine. Less people died using it than taking aspirin or tylenol. The people that did die from it (particularly the football player) were extreme circumstances. Working out the way they push them in the sweltering heat is what did it.

 
Old 01-10-2006, 09:17 PM   #4
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pipermac HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyfoxy
MAcro, are you in the states? I thought ephedrine was banned? I'm in Canada and can get it but only in 8mg tabs without caffeine. Its sold as a nasal decongestant.

I don't understand why they banned ephedrine. Less people died using it than taking aspirin or tylenol. The people that did die from it (particularly the football player) were extreme circumstances. Working out the way they push them in the sweltering heat is what did it.
The ban has been lifted in the States as Long asthere is not more then 10Mg per dosage. It could not be proven that there was any danger if taken 10mg or less.

 
Old 01-11-2006, 10:57 PM   #5
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macro HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roxyfoxy
MAcro, are you in the states? I thought ephedrine was banned? I'm in Canada and can get it but only in 8mg tabs without caffeine. Its sold as a nasal decongestant.

that is the best and purest kind. I actually buy my ephedrine from canada. Its easy to get ephedrine here but harder to get pure ephedrine (this is severely limited because of its use to make methamphetamines) its usually adulterated with guaifenesin.

 
Old 01-11-2006, 11:13 PM   #6
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Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipermac
The ban has been lifted in the States as Long asthere is not more then 10Mg per dosage. It could not be proven that there was any danger if taken 10mg or less.
this is mostly correct (its still a battle back and forth between the FDA and the district court).. but only applies to herbal ephedra extracts.

synthetic and pure ephedrine is superior as well as having less potential for side effects..

most ephedra is about 60% psuedoephedrina and 30% ephedrine with 10% mixed other alkaloids

 
Old 01-12-2006, 05:35 AM   #7
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ratboy83 HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

any thermogenic herbs will do the trick. examples are as follows:-

ginger
cayenne pepper
guarana
kola nut
green tea

work by rasing core body temperature and thus the body metabolism. also have the benfit of being natural safe stimulants which increase energy so you feel more inclined to work out too.

alex.

 
Old 01-13-2006, 01:22 PM   #8
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macro HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratboy83
any thermogenic herbs will do the trick. examples are as follows:-

ginger
cayenne pepper
guarana
kola nut
green tea

work by rasing core body temperature and thus the body metabolism. also have the benfit of being natural safe stimulants which increase energy so you feel more inclined to work out too.

alex.
guarana, kola and green tea only give you "energy" because they contain caffiene.

ginger does not stimulate metabolism, though it is great for digestion

cayenne (capsiacin- capsicanoids) is a thermogen, though its a weaker one and because of tolerability issues its not that well suited for weight loss (though it does help). Evodiamine (evodia fructis) works in a similar manner)

 
Old 01-22-2006, 04:06 PM   #9
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November HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by macro
yes they work

Stim based:
thermorexin
EC (pure ephedrine and caffeine- no ephedra- no guaifenesin)

thermogens
EGCG (from green tea-when combined with caffeine)
Sesamin (sesapure)
Fish oil (epa/dha)
Would you be able to elaborate on what a Thermogen is.....as for the EGCG, Sesamin, and Fish oil. Would I just go to a good vitamin shop or online to get these? Would I be takin' them in pill form or mixing them together in a drink?

Nic
-ciao

 
Old 01-23-2006, 11:02 AM   #10
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macro HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratboy83
for example, the high of cocaine only lasts 15-30mins but coccaine has a half life of up to 72 hours! that is indeed an extreme example, but one which no doubt serves the purpose of demonstrating the theory.

alex.
shhh...

would you like this explained to you.... since you dont understand it.

first cocaine has a PLASMA half life of 30-90 minutes, elimination half life is how long its metabolites are detectable in the urine which for cocaine is 14.6 to 52hrs----- 72hrs is an anomoly- probably listed for "effect".

cocaine depletes dopamine and serotonin, so while it may still be active once the neurotransmitters are depleted the effect is severely muted. This is part, not all, of the reason that the first bump of the night is the best and then its just chasing the dragon.

 
Old 01-23-2006, 11:13 AM   #11
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macro HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratboy83
the product file says they are thermogens, every single internet site says they are thermogens, so i guess everyone is an idiot (except you of course!).

thats so nice of you to say. Just because a misnomer has been picked up an proliferated by the hacks that do supplement write ups does not make it true.

true thermogenics are those that increase the release of heat/energy without stimulus. These include natural uncouplers (including UCP1 and UCP2), PPAR alpha agonists, vanilloid receptor agonists, etc...

now many people use the term interchangeably with stimulants, but they are not true thermogenics.

true thermogenics cause calorie waste, they actually will tend to LOWER energy levels (though this varies by mechanism and activity)

 
Old 01-23-2006, 11:19 AM   #12
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macro HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratboy83
as for guaranine, it is chemically identical to caffeine but guarana also contains other substances such as saponins (has an adoapogenic effect and helpos to prevent overstimulation), the major difference between the two is that guranine gives a more sustained effect (mostly due to the saponin content),

alex.
so you were incorrect about claiming that guaranine was different than caffeine.

pls delineate the saponins and their activity, that would be an interesting read, some clinicals testing and proving such activity would be nice

just so you know- adipogenic effect means that it would increase BODYFAT SYNTHESIS.

 
Old 01-23-2006, 02:58 PM   #13
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Vitagen HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratboy83
any thermogenic herbs will do the trick. examples are as follows:-

ginger
cayenne pepper
guarana
kola nut
green tea

work by rasing core body temperature and thus the body metabolism. also have the benfit of being natural safe stimulants which increase energy so you feel more inclined to work out too.

alex.
Green Tea is pretty good. I've only had Guarana in the drink BAWLS and it's like 2 cups of coffee. Cayenne Pepper goes great in Chilli. I'm somewhat allergic to Ginger, because it gives me a headache...everytime. Kola Nut is alrght too.

Overall, I feel the Green Tea makes me feel best. It's only a small energy boost, but I believe it helps with my allergies.


I tell people...Exercise will pull the fat off quicker than diet pills...plus it'll keep it off longer, because your matabalism doesn't plummit into Caveman Survival Mode.

Last edited by Vitagen; 01-23-2006 at 03:00 PM.

 
Old 02-02-2006, 05:51 AM   #14
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ratboy83 HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by macro
shhh...

would you like this explained to you.... since you dont understand it.

first cocaine has a PLASMA half life of 30-90 minutes, elimination half life is how long its metabolites are detectable in the urine which for cocaine is 14.6 to 52hrs----- 72hrs is an anomoly- probably listed for "effect".

cocaine depletes dopamine and serotonin, so while it may still be active once the neurotransmitters are depleted the effect is severely muted. This is part, not all, of the reason that the first bump of the night is the best and then its just chasing the dragon.
well if you actually read what i said then you'd realise that you pretty much repeated what i said! watch it, you'll have me thinking you work in a shop soon.
nice we agree on something then. caffeine IS a peak and trough drug. it also depletes neurotranmitters in the brain (noradrenaline and dopamine) and causes adrenal exhaustion when its effects are not controlled (as with coffee but NOT with guarana), so similarly the drug is still active in the body after the neurotransmitters have been depleted. caffeine is a drug and all drugs are subject to the law of dual effect. the initial mental alertness is followed by a period of fatigue greater than the original fatigue felt (the fatigue which induced the desire to want the stimluant in the first place).

alex.

Last edited by ratboy83; 02-03-2006 at 03:35 AM.

 
Old 02-02-2006, 06:05 AM   #15
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ratboy83 HB User
Re: Fat burners...do they work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by macro
so you were incorrect about claiming that guaranine was different than caffeine.

pls delineate the saponins and their activity, that would be an interesting read, some clinicals testing and proving such activity would be nice

just so you know- adipogenic effect means that it would increase BODYFAT SYNTHESIS.
my original assertion was incorrect in saying that guaranine is chemically different to caffeine, i admit that. however, in my next post relating to the issue i did make the correction and stated that guranine is chemically identical but it is contained in guarana which contains OTHER ACTIVE INGREDIENTS TOO (alkloids, saponins). these contribute to the overall effect of guarana and make its effect distinguishable to other caffeine containing foods/ drinks such as coffee. a similar example would be that of green tea. it contains caffeine but also contains catechins and L-Theanine, both of which curb the effect of caffeine to an extent, preventing adrenal overstimulation/ depletion of neurotranmitters. only comparing caffeine to guranine is too simplistic: one needs to take note of the other active ingredients that appear also.
oh, and i meant adaptonegenic (the effect that saponions have in guarana).

alex.

Last edited by ratboy83; 02-03-2006 at 03:38 AM.

 
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