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Old 05-26-2005, 01:45 PM   #1
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running/heart rate/fat burn

Is it true when you run slower and longer that you burn fat quicker opposed to running fast and a little bit shorter? Does you heart rate have to be up to the point that your breathing really hard and your uncomfortable in order to burn fat? I hope am making sense.........If am not please tell me I will try to be As specific as i can.

Last edited by Tjay718; 05-26-2005 at 01:46 PM.

 
Old 05-26-2005, 01:48 PM   #2
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

I was told by my trainer that for me to burn fat and not muscle that I would need to stay within my fat burning zone. For me, this is 160-170. If you can get your heart rate up that high by going slower, then I wouldn't see why that wouldn't work, but for me I have to put the elliptical on a higher resistance every so often since my body becomes adjusted quickly.

 
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Old 05-26-2005, 02:00 PM   #3
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

Really? I just started the treadmill and i Put the speed on 5.0 And during the workout i may Switch it From 4.5 to 5.5. But I know towards the end I move the speed up to 6.0 at the last 2 to 3 minutes. Is that a good Idea or should I just stick with using the speed that the programs on the treadmill provide? I feel that some of the programs on there are so slow paced and it doesnt even get my heart rate moving so that's why i adjust the speed. How do you find out your heart rate and how much you heart rate has to be to burn fat? I hope am making sense please tell if am not.

 
Old 05-26-2005, 02:43 PM   #4
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

Running is great! I miss it....to hard on my knees. When I did run on the treadmill, I would walk a lap, then jog a lap, so the speed did vary. You don't have to stick to the program. Changing it up is a good thing!

My trainer told me my what my fat burning zone is. I believe it's based on your age & resting heart rate, but don't quote me on that! I'm 35 (female) and my resting heart rate is high (92). But I'm in sales, a high strung person, full of energy and the wheels are always turning. Even when I first wake up my heart rate is in the high 80's to low 90's. I'm working on it!! So, my fat burning zone is 160-170. I was just measured and have gained more lean mass & lost fat mass, so I know this is working for me. I was told that if I got my resting heart rate down to 82 (normal), then my fat burninig zone would be 150-160.

While on the elliptical, I'll average 172 according to the machine and I'll do my own test and it's about the same.

You can probably do a search on line and come up with an average for yourself or if you belong to a gym I'd ask a trainer for advice. They should tell you.

 
Old 05-26-2005, 05:29 PM   #5
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

Hey frustrated35, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you figure out your fat burning zone by tsking 220-your age x 60%-70%

 
Old 05-26-2005, 05:38 PM   #6
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

You're probably right. I'm not good with those formulas at all!! That would mean 220-35 which is 185 X 60% is only 111 for me. Is that right?? Ok, where are the experts?

 
Old 05-26-2005, 08:05 PM   #7
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

Hello frustrated35

I'm not an expert but I've started HR training myself. I've been reading a book regarding heart rate training. He uses the Karvonen method to compute target heart rate zones. This formula incorporates your resting heart rate along with your maximum heart rate. The 220 - age for MHR is just an estimate. Has your trainer measured your MHR? You can get a pretty good handle on what your MHR is by simulating hill repeats on the treadmill. See how high your heart rate actually gets.

The formula for 60% would then be:

(MHR - RHR) * .6 + RHR

For now, using 220 - age, your MHR would be 185. And lets say your RHR is 90. I had seen in another post your morning heart rate was in the high 80's to low 90's, so lets just say 90. Using the formula above your 60% fat burning zone would be:

(185-90) * .6 + 90 = 147

Ask your trainer what she/he is using for your MHR and how they have determined the 60%-70% zones.

Also depending how out of shape a person is, determines how fast their heart rate rises. The more out of shape one is, the faster the HR shoots up. As you get in better shape, it will take more effort to get to that same HR. Also, over time as you get in better shape, your RHR will get lower. A persons MHR tends to remain the same. It does get lower though as one ages.

Clear as mud??

 
Old 05-26-2005, 08:31 PM   #8
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by frustrated35
You're probably right. I'm not good with those formulas at all!! That would mean 220-35 which is 185 X 60% is only 111 for me. Is that right?? Ok, where are the experts?
Yah, you can work your heart rate more than 60% right? As long as you don't go over 85% of you "maximum" heart rate of 100%. Naxis?

 
Old 05-26-2005, 08:40 PM   #9
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

bluehen and jv109 am i doing this formula right to find out my fat burning zone? I did 220-19 times 60%-70% right? I got 207.9. Am i doing it right? Or do i put my weigth in the place of 220? not sure. I weigth 156 and am 5'6'' age 19. How do you find out your resting heart rate?

Last edited by Tjay718; 05-26-2005 at 08:43 PM.

 
Old 05-27-2005, 06:22 AM   #10
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by jv109
Hello frustrated35

I'm not an expert but I've started HR training myself. I've been reading a book regarding heart rate training. He uses the Karvonen method to compute target heart rate zones. This formula incorporates your resting heart rate along with your maximum heart rate. The 220 - age for MHR is just an estimate. Has your trainer measured your MHR? You can get a pretty good handle on what your MHR is by simulating hill repeats on the treadmill. See how high your heart rate actually gets.

The formula for 60% would then be:

(MHR - RHR) * .6 + RHR

For now, using 220 - age, your MHR would be 185. And lets say your RHR is 90. I had seen in another post your morning heart rate was in the high 80's to low 90's, so lets just say 90. Using the formula above your 60% fat burning zone would be:

(185-90) * .6 + 90 = 147

Ask your trainer what she/he is using for your MHR and how they have determined the 60%-70% zones.

Also depending how out of shape a person is, determines how fast their heart rate rises. The more out of shape one is, the faster the HR shoots up. As you get in better shape, it will take more effort to get to that same HR. Also, over time as you get in better shape, your RHR will get lower. A persons MHR tends to remain the same. It does get lower though as one ages.

Clear as mud??
I've never asked, but that's probably how he's figuring, BUT when we stayed anywhere between 140-150 I wasn't barely moving. I'm not a good example because I do take asthma meds and that raises my heart rate and the fact that I'm always full of energy for some reason that increases my heart rate. I feel stupid being on the elliptical and not even being challenged, but my heart rate could be in the 140-150 zone by going slow. I really have to watch and make sure I'm in my 160-170 zone and keep the elliptical at a good resistance. I doubt my resisting heart rate will ever get lower and I'm in better shape now than I was 3 years ago. I'm too high strung of a person. From what I remember, it was high back in jr high when I played sports. We had it checked, but the doc said that I'm just always moving and I will probably always be like that. I never sit still. Guess I take on way too much! I think the only time I've seen my HR in the low 80's was when I was on the beach in Aruba for a week. Now that's total relaxation! I'm getting ready for my trip to Cabo in June, maybe I can get my HR down then!

Thanks for clearing all that up! I never really took the time to ask my trainer how he figured it. That surprises me since I ask him "how" and "why" all the time!! thanks again!!

 
Old 05-27-2005, 06:32 AM   #11
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessicca
Yah, you can work your heart rate more than 60% right? As long as you don't go over 85% of you "maximum" heart rate of 100%. Naxis?
Good question! Maybe Naxix or someone will put their 2 cents in here.

I never feel like my heart is going to jump out or anything and never feel faint, and I don't really rely on the machine to tell me. I'll take my pulse. If I stay within 160-170 I feel like I'm working something. If I stay in 150-160 I feel like I'm not moving or working anything. And I look like one of those girls that are just up at the gym to pick up someone.

But like you said Jessica.....how high is too high. I don't want to burn muscle. And I'll do a 5 min warm up and 5 min cool down, so I'm really in the 160-170 zone for about 35 min on the days that I do 45 min of cardio. So, I know I'm working it more than 60% and did add 3 pounds of lean mass and lost 2 pounds of fat mass at my last weigh in. That's the only way I can tell it's working for me.

 
Old 05-27-2005, 06:48 AM   #12
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

There's a BIG difference in perceived exertion between the "fat burning" zone (which I've always understood to be 50-70% of Maximum Heart Rate) and the "aerobic" or "cardio" zone (my info says 70-90% of MHR). You probably wouldn't need much effort to get your heart rate up to 50-70% of MHR... which is why they say that even a brisk walk is enough to have positive effects on your health. It's when you move up into the "aerobic" zone that you start to feel it... your breathing gets harder, you start to sweat, your muscles burn... all the good stuff we normally associate with "exercise."

The reason I put all these heart rate "zones" into quotes is that they are a little bit misleading. You are still going to burn CALORIES no matter which zone you are in... its just where those calories come from that differs. And no matter if you are burning fat (great), carbs (good), or protein (not so good), at the end of the day, its the caloric deficit that matters, not the composition of those calories. Look at endurance athletes. They spend most of their time in the "cardio" zone, and they tend to have a low body fat percentage. They eat lots of carbs, and they burn them off at a high rate.

The concept of the "fat burning" zone, in my opinion, was created by the fitness industry to help motivate less-than-fit individuals to feel good about their workouts. Not everyone WANTS to get sweaty and "feel the burn" at the gym... but everyone wants to feel like they got benefits from the energy exerted. So by creating a "fat burning zone" on the heart rate charts, they are psycholgically "rewarding" people for even moderate efforts. There ARE tangible benefits, but as you pointed out, for those with a moderate level of fitness, staying in that zone is just not too challenging. My $.02... YMMV.
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Old 05-27-2005, 07:14 AM   #13
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

To answer some specifics:

How high is too high?

You CAN work all the way to 100% of your MHR... but you wouldn't want to. And your body will tell you when it's had enough and will "shut down."
Once you pass around 90% of MHR, you cross the "lactate threshold"... the point where your body can't clear the lactic acid produced by exercise as fast as it is being pumped into the muscles. That "burn" you feel during cardio is the lactic acid. When your system becomes anerobic (over 90% MHR) your body starts to lost the ability to perform at its best and you lose the ability to continue working at that level. You can build this system (and the length of time you can spend in this zone) over time (interval training is a great way to do this, as is training at higher altitudes) but it's not something most people need to worry about. Professional cyclists are amazing... they can work at 85-90% of their MHR for hours... and then go to 95-98% for sprints and hill climbs in an instant... and keep that up for extended periods of time.

I don't want to burn muscle.

Chances are good you won't burn muscle during a typical cardio workout. Your body will use fat to provide energy first... that kind of energy lasts the longest. Trouble with that is that it also takes longer to convert fat to energy than other available options. So as the workload increases, it turns to carbs, again balancing the "quality" of the energy (in terms of duration) against the "quickness" of the energy (in terms of availability). Low GI carbs first (like fiber), then high GI carbs (like sugar). As a last resort, it goes to protein, which is stored in your muscles. To use the endurance sports example again... you might be familiar with the concept of "carb loading," where you would eat a higher quantity of low GI carbs prior to an event. A pasta dinner the night before, and a bagel the morning of the event. During the event, you might have a powerbar (A combination of high GI and low GI carbs, usually a fiber with a sugar) for longer lasting energy, as well as gatorade (high GI carbs, almost pure sugar) for quickly available energy.

When you hear about people "losing muscle" from cardio, it's usually from bodybuilders who are on severely calorie restricted diets in an attempt to lose body fat whithout losing their hard-won physiques. You'll also hear us talk about it in reference to people on "extreme" diets... the ones who eat virtually nothing and do massive amounts of cardio. Both groups can lose muscle because they are not giving their bodies the fats and carbs which are the primary sources of energy. And not surprisingly, both groups will advocate a low fat, low carb diet (bodybuilders call it Ketosis, dieters call it Atkins). But for most people, if you are eating the proper ratios of nutrients, you don't have much risk of losing muscle from a reasonable cardio schedule.
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Last edited by phillydude; 05-27-2005 at 07:18 AM.

 
Old 05-27-2005, 07:17 AM   #14
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

I'll take your 2 cents anytime phillydude! I don't mind to sweat to feel the burn at the gym. I figure, that's why I'm there. If I'm not breaking a sweat then I feel I haven't burned anything and I'm wasting my time. Maybe I'm not. I don't sweat much while resistance training, but I'm not body building for example, I'll max bench press at 60 lbs, chest press with dbells is 20 lb in each hand. I could probably do more, but it's the keeping it steady which is harder than the weight. I do what's comfortable for me. I'm sure I'm burning something while doing that. But when doing cardio, I feel that if I'm not sweating, feeling my muslces burn then I must not be in my "aerobic" zone as you said. I'm not looking for a moderate workout, I like the challening ones. But that's just me.

 
Old 05-27-2005, 07:22 AM   #15
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Re: running/heart rate/fat burn

If you want to up your intensity level while weight training, cut back on the time resting between sets of exercises. Work quickly enough and you'll get your heart rate up. I generally rest 45-60 seconds betwen sets, and 60-90 seconds between exercises (provided no one is "in my way") Added benefit: less time spent in the weight part of the gym, more time for cardio!
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