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Old 02-20-2006, 11:25 AM   #1
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Anyone read this news?

I read an article and it said recently some Harvard docs have decided its time to define yet another eating disorder, a disorder specifically seen in one particular population, bodybuilders. You may have been aware that bodybuilders have qualified on several criteria (DSM-IV) for eating disorders like anorexia or even bulimia. Certainly preoccupation with food has led some researchers to think of bodybuilders as having "issues" with food. Now they are sure it's a problem and want to help by clearly defining it. They call this new type of eating disorder, "Eating Disorder, Bodybuilder-Type" or simply ED, BT.

Is this the most unbelievable bullhooey you've ever heard?? What a load! Simply an excuse to sell more antidepressants and get more patients for psychiatrists, I'm sure of it!!!

I only wish I had this "disorder" and could control my food as well as most bodybuilders do! I guess then, according to psychiatry, it's more "normal" to be fat and eat whatever you want all day(as long as you take their antidepressants and other tranq drugs) !!!

Man I'm ******.

 
Old 02-20-2006, 12:05 PM   #2
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Re: Anyone read this news?

i'm sorry, but i have to respond and say that i couldn't disagree with you more. i believe, even without knowing much about any particular body-builder's habits, that there are probably many who do have eating disorders. and i don't see why defining the specific aspects of "ED, BT" is such an offense to you. by specifying that particular disorder, therapists can learn to spot it and help people suffering recover. what's wrong with that?

our society has this limited view of what an eating disorder is and as a recovering anorexic, i'm f***ing sick of it. according to most people, if you have an eating disorder, you must be stick thin and either puke up everything you eat or not eat more than carrot sticks and rice cakes all day. recently, binge eating disorder and overeating disorders have been somewhat recognized by society, but people who have these disorders are still often cast-aside as just being "obese" or "lazy." it simply isn't true. eating disorder are INCREDIBLY complicated and terrible things to live with or fight through and i understand that someone who doesn't have an eating disorder can't imagine what a living prison it is. but what i can't understand is why people aren't willing to just ACCEPT that these problems exist and, unless you've experienced it yourself, accept that you may not be able to truly understand it. is that really too much to ask?

like me for example, i ALWAYS ate over 2000 calories and didn't exercise excessively even at the worst of my anorexia. but i was VERY underweight and VERY unhappy and VERY controlling over food/calories and eventually ending up binging out of control (like 3000+ calories extra daily) for about 9 months. i finally entered therapy at a "normal" weight, so what would you diagnose me as, huh? not straight up anorexic because my weight wasn't dangerously low enough even though i counted EVERY calorie and EVERY 1/4 mile's worth of exercise. not bulimic cuz i never purged. not just binge eating disorder cuz i starved myself between binges. but just cuz i didn't "fit" the traditional classifications 100% perfectly, would you say i didn't have a very serious eating disorder? i sure as he** hope not, because i was MISERABLE at that time and the cause was my eating disorder.

what i'm trying to say is that eating disorders are not as cut and dry as society wants them to be. they are mental, physical, emotionally, biological, habitual DISORDERS that not everyone can understand. people who ONLY eat certain foods (i'm counting obsessive health nuts here) could have eating disorders cuz of the strict CONTROL they place on something that should be natural: eating. but does anyone have any sympathy for these people or notice the potential problems? nope, probably not. what about people who over-exercise and can't miss a day even though they don't obsessively about their food choices? that's not disordered?

to clarify, i'm not trying to say that every healthy/fit person is disordered by any means. heck, most of them aren't! BUT, for the ones that are (even though they don't fit traditional "eating disorder" criteria from 20 years ago), why shouldn't doctors further specify the different types of EDs so they can better learn how to treat them? really, just try to have some understanding.

and one more thing, you DON'T wish that you could have the control over exercise/diet that comes with an eating disorder, trust me. it is absolutely one of the worst things that you can have actually. so please don't say it unless you understand the repercussions of that statement.

Last edited by Jonistyle2; 02-20-2006 at 12:07 PM.

 
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Old 02-20-2006, 06:22 PM   #3
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonistyle2
i'm sorry, but i have to respond and say that i couldn't disagree with you more. i believe, even without knowing much about any particular body-builder's habits, that there are probably many who do have eating disorders. and i don't see why defining the specific aspects of "ED, BT" is such an offense to you. by specifying that particular disorder, therapists can learn to spot it and help people suffering recover. what's wrong with that?

our society has this limited view of what an eating disorder is and as a recovering anorexic, i'm f***ing sick of it. according to most people, if you have an eating disorder, you must be stick thin and either puke up everything you eat or not eat more than carrot sticks and rice cakes all day. recently, binge eating disorder and overeating disorders have been somewhat recognized by society, but people who have these disorders are still often cast-aside as just being "obese" or "lazy." it simply isn't true. eating disorder are INCREDIBLY complicated and terrible things to live with or fight through and i understand that someone who doesn't have an eating disorder can't imagine what a living prison it is. but what i can't understand is why people aren't willing to just ACCEPT that these problems exist and, unless you've experienced it yourself, accept that you may not be able to truly understand it. is that really too much to ask?

like me for example, i ALWAYS ate over 2000 calories and didn't exercise excessively even at the worst of my anorexia. but i was VERY underweight and VERY unhappy and VERY controlling over food/calories and eventually ending up binging out of control (like 3000+ calories extra daily) for about 9 months. i finally entered therapy at a "normal" weight, so what would you diagnose me as, huh? not straight up anorexic because my weight wasn't dangerously low enough even though i counted EVERY calorie and EVERY 1/4 mile's worth of exercise. not bulimic cuz i never purged. not just binge eating disorder cuz i starved myself between binges. but just cuz i didn't "fit" the traditional classifications 100% perfectly, would you say i didn't have a very serious eating disorder? i sure as he** hope not, because i was MISERABLE at that time and the cause was my eating disorder.

what i'm trying to say is that eating disorders are not as cut and dry as society wants them to be. they are mental, physical, emotionally, biological, habitual DISORDERS that not everyone can understand. people who ONLY eat certain foods (i'm counting obsessive health nuts here) could have eating disorders cuz of the strict CONTROL they place on something that should be natural: eating. but does anyone have any sympathy for these people or notice the potential problems? nope, probably not. what about people who over-exercise and can't miss a day even though they don't obsessively about their food choices? that's not disordered?

to clarify, i'm not trying to say that every healthy/fit person is disordered by any means. heck, most of them aren't! BUT, for the ones that are (even though they don't fit traditional "eating disorder" criteria from 20 years ago), why shouldn't doctors further specify the different types of EDs so they can better learn how to treat them? really, just try to have some understanding.

and one more thing, you DON'T wish that you could have the control over exercise/diet that comes with an eating disorder, trust me. it is absolutely one of the worst things that you can have actually. so please don't say it unless you understand the repercussions of that statement.
And I know alot of bodybuilders including a brother, so I must disagree with you even more. Anorexia is a whole different ballgame, there is no comparison, anorexia is not a contrived and executed effort of gaining health and well being like bodybuilding/sculpting. Anorexia is about feeling fat and ugly/or unattractive in an excessive or obsessive way.

I'm actually wondering right now why being a vegan or vegetarian, which is a very strict way of eating, isn't considered a mental/eating disorder as well? Or is it? I haven't heard of it being in the DSM manual of psychiatric disorders but who knows it might be. Or maybe it will be in the future. Perhaps they can add some sort of diagnosis symptome like overly obsessed about animals dying or something like that, eh? It's not like psychiatry is judgemental about how people think or anything, eh?

IMHO, psychiarty today wants to sell as many antidepressants and have as many patients as possible, that's their bottom line, and I find it very insulting(thus the anger) when they label people with mental illness (anyone who is diagnoised with any "disorder" in the manual is considered an official "mental patient"!)

Anyway, I WISH I was a disiplined and in shape as some bodybuilders are I've seen(I'm not talking the steroid filled ones by the way).

You are entitled to your opinion, however. It just doesn't match mine. Well, I guess we can agree to disagree at any rate.

Last edited by Jennita; 02-20-2006 at 06:46 PM.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 10:22 AM   #4
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Re: Anyone read this news?

i like the "agree to disagree" idea (i hate when people get so angry with each other on these boards!). Anyway, i still do disagree with what you've said because i truly believe that control (even with the good intention of health and extreme muscle building) can get obsessive and out of control VERY quickly. you, yourself talked about "the steroid filled" bodybuilders. that obsession isn't unhealthy and disordered? i just think that there probably are many body-builders who become OBSESSED with the "contrived and executed effort of gaining health and well being" to the point where it is disordered and unhealthy, you know?

plus, anorexia isn't all about starving and exercising like mad just to be skinny. i guess that's the point i was trying to make. my eating disorder began as an honest, healthy attempt to GET HEALTHY. i wanted to work out 30 minutes, 3 days a week and eat better, that was it. BUT, it quickly became disordered and obsessive and THEN morphed into an absolute obsession with my body, food, weight, exercise, etc. i really don't see why there couldn't be MANY body-builders who go through that same honest transition, you know? (think about the extreme focus on appearance related to body-building. i can't help but see a direct tie to female modeling. and there are many who don't develop EDs, but i just don't see why the ones who do shouldn't have therapists and diagnoses that are specifically tailored towards them.

i also disagree about the meds thing. most people with ED's are treated without meds, as cognitive-behavioral therapy is widely acknowledged as the most effective ED treatment.

anyway, i didn't want this to get all long and argumentative, but i just wanted to state those points. do i think veganism is a form of eating disorder? nope, i don't. i know a few vegans, all of whom i consider to be perfectly healthy. BUT, i'm sure there are vegans (and lots of carnivores!) for whom the obsession with a certain food type/group/processing-style/fat-content leads to disordered eating and possibly an eating disorder. does that distinction make sense? plus, ED's are biological disorders too. not everybody has that brain chemistry where they're at risk, you know?

 
Old 02-21-2006, 02:19 PM   #5
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Bodybuilders are stupid idiots, building their muscles so big they look like a rubber glove blown up with air!

All in all, bodybuilders are pathetic.

 
Old 02-21-2006, 02:28 PM   #6
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjwneedhelp
Bodybuilders are stupid idiots, building their muscles so big they look like a rubber glove blown up with air!

All in all, bodybuilders are pathetic.
Oh gimme a break! It's stupid idiots who lump all of a certain "type" of people together. Those are the people who are "pathetic".

 
Old 02-22-2006, 01:17 PM   #7
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMN
Oh gimme a break! It's stupid idiots who lump all of a certain "type" of people together. Those are the people who are "pathetic".
Quoted for prosperity.

 
Old 02-22-2006, 02:31 PM   #8
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonistyle2
i like the "agree to disagree" idea (i hate when people get so angry with each other on these boards!). Anyway, i still do disagree with what you've said because i truly believe that control (even with the good intention of health and extreme muscle building) can get obsessive and out of control VERY quickly. you, yourself talked about "the steroid filled" bodybuilders. that obsession isn't unhealthy and disordered? i just think that there probably are many body-builders who become OBSESSED with the "contrived and executed effort of gaining health and well being" to the point where it is disordered and unhealthy, you know?

plus, anorexia isn't all about starving and exercising like mad just to be skinny. i guess that's the point i was trying to make. my eating disorder began as an honest, healthy attempt to GET HEALTHY. i wanted to work out 30 minutes, 3 days a week and eat better, that was it. BUT, it quickly became disordered and obsessive and THEN morphed into an absolute obsession with my body, food, weight, exercise, etc. i really don't see why there couldn't be MANY body-builders who go through that same honest transition, you know? (think about the extreme focus on appearance related to body-building. i can't help but see a direct tie to female modeling. and there are many who don't develop EDs, but i just don't see why the ones who do shouldn't have therapists and diagnoses that are specifically tailored towards them.

i also disagree about the meds thing. most people with ED's are treated without meds, as cognitive-behavioral therapy is widely acknowledged as the most effective ED treatment.

anyway, i didn't want this to get all long and argumentative, but i just wanted to state those points. do i think veganism is a form of eating disorder? nope, i don't. i know a few vegans, all of whom i consider to be perfectly healthy. BUT, i'm sure there are vegans (and lots of carnivores!) for whom the obsession with a certain food type/group/processing-style/fat-content leads to disordered eating and possibly an eating disorder. does that distinction make sense? plus, ED's are biological disorders too. not everybody has that brain chemistry where they're at risk, you know?
I didn't want over debate over ED's; mainly, I still do not agree with psychiatry's attempt to pull in bodybuilders as patients. As far as the steroid bodybuilders, I don't think they have any disorder either...as they are mostly the competative ones, either in competitions or hoping to be.

Now sadly, there is no rule in bodybuilding against steroid use so they all have to use to be able to compete properly. Personally, I'd love to see more natural bodybuilders, to me they are more attractive. So I doubt bodybuilders on steroids are obsessive or sick, they are just trying to compete but IMHO that rule should be changed in competitions.

But anyhoo, the whole point I'm making is that psychiatry's book of psychiatric disorders is borderlining on ridiculous; while there are legitamite mental diseases listed in it, the last few years they are throwing in too many behaviors, life circumstances, society issues and judgements on otherwise normally sane people for the sake of a buck.

It makes me angry on one hand; on the other, however, it's highly unlikely any dedicated fitness/bodybuilder will ever take this new "disorder" seriously anyway.....so psychiatry can try to suck in more sane people into their web of antidepressants and tranquilzers but in this case I doubt they will succeed this time.

FYI, what psychiatry doesn't tell people is that our good brain chemicals come from amino acids in foods and supplements. Certain toxins like drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, other inhaled or ingested substances disrupt and hinder the process of synthesizing them. If one is chemically imbalanced(which is still all theory, not proven by any biological testing), it is for lack of amino acids and or damages from toxins. People who exercise regularly, eat right and don't drink/smoke have proper intake of the good brain chemicals. Also, some supposed "disorders" that are thought to be chemical can sometimes be psychological or physiological or even circumstance and learned behaviors.

But these days, they'd rather just throw the chemical imbalance thing in, quick answer and quick fix. However, many people end up still broken plus drug dependant with all sorts of side/adverse effects down the line to just add to an already bad situation.

I'm glad to hear they are leaning towards non-drug therapy, at least in your case. I have seen people with ED's on antidepressants and such so that did surprize me.

Last edited by Jennita; 02-22-2006 at 03:13 PM.

 
Old 02-24-2006, 05:58 PM   #9
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Re: Anyone read this news?

I actually did some research on this when I was a psychology student. Saying they want to lump bodybuilders as having an eating disorder is a bit generalized and not quite right. They want to group SOME bodybuilders with this disorder. What you may not understand is some men have the same feelings of inadequacy of feeling like they're too skinny or too scrawny. The thoughts are similar to an anorexic feeling too fat or too ugly. So they get into bodybuilding, but with dangerous excess (i.e. steroids). It can become obsessive, where every waking moment is spent thinking about bodybuilding. That is why it is a disorder- obsessive and unhealthy and irrational behavior. So there you are. A good book about this is Muscle : Confessions of an Unlikely Bodybuilder by Samuel Fussell. He was a skinny guy who started to bulk up, but still thought he was skinny when he looked in a mirror. He wasted all his money and ruined all his relationships because he was obsessed with bodybuilding. So can you now see how this COULD be a legit disorder?

 
Old 02-24-2006, 08:41 PM   #10
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vesuvius
I actually did some research on this when I was a psychology student. Saying they want to lump bodybuilders as having an eating disorder is a bit generalized and not quite right. They want to group SOME bodybuilders with this disorder. What you may not understand is some men have the same feelings of inadequacy of feeling like they're too skinny or too scrawny. The thoughts are similar to an anorexic feeling too fat or too ugly. So they get into bodybuilding, but with dangerous excess (i.e. steroids). It can become obsessive, where every waking moment is spent thinking about bodybuilding. That is why it is a disorder- obsessive and unhealthy and irrational behavior. So there you are. A good book about this is Muscle : Confessions of an Unlikely Bodybuilder by Samuel Fussell. He was a skinny guy who started to bulk up, but still thought he was skinny when he looked in a mirror. He wasted all his money and ruined all his relationships because he was obsessed with bodybuilding. So can you now see how this COULD be a legit disorder?
In a very few people I'm sure it's possible... but psychiatry usually goes overboard when they get ahold of a new disorder, diagnoising everyone with any hint of problems and like lightening they are ready to whip out the prescription pad. I have had this happen to people I know who did no more than comment about a depressing situation/event in their lives....many had doctors bugging the crap out of them to get on Prozac or Paxil when all they needed was a kind ear or time to heal. And they did without pills but it's funny how they were told they had some chemical imbalance and wouldn't feel better without chemicals.

I'm not really disagreeing with you but rather know how they tend to take the disorder ball and bat it so hard even Barry Bonds would be impressed.

So while in fact you may be correct (and your explanation makes good sense), I know this will become yet another abused excuse for more psychoactive drugs, at least if one does go to a psychiatrist. If they go to a psycologist, maybe they'll actually get some real therapy and not a quick pill fix. That's at least something.

Thanks for such an eloquent explanation. Yes, there could be a bodybuilder or two who might actually be obsessed to the point of hurting himself and his life. I doubt it's very many in the population of bodybuilders.

I guess it remains to be seen if this situation will be abused by the psychiatric and drug companies. I'm betting it will.....if I'm wrong, I'll be glad.

 
Old 02-25-2006, 11:36 AM   #11
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Re: Anyone read this news?

I absolutely agree about psychiatrists and drug companies going overboard with medication. The drug companies have profits to make, and psychiatrists get a kick back from the drug companies for prescribing those drugs. But psychiatry and psychology are a little different, and I'm not sure what if any drugs could be used for this disorder. Probably some cognitive/behavioral therapy would be best anyways, so I'm not sure drugs would need to enter the picture. I always say, avoid prescriptions as much as possible unless absolutely necessary.

 
Old 02-25-2006, 08:18 PM   #12
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vesuvius
I absolutely agree about psychiatrists and drug companies going overboard with medication. The drug companies have profits to make, and psychiatrists get a kick back from the drug companies for prescribing those drugs. But psychiatry and psychology are a little different, and I'm not sure what if any drugs could be used for this disorder. Probably some cognitive/behavioral therapy would be best anyways, so I'm not sure drugs would need to enter the picture. I always say, avoid prescriptions as much as possible unless absolutely necessary.
Well said!!

 
Old 02-25-2006, 08:46 PM   #13
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Re: Anyone read this news?

i don't think they are naming this new disorder in attempt to sell more drugs. i have an eating disorder and i'm not on any perscriptions that are supposed to help me stop. Eating disorders are not all about getting skinny or getting bulked up. But when you are overly obsessed with your body, with food, and exercise, you have a problem, because it isnt normal. I dont think it's fair for you to say that only "a very small number" of bodybuilders have this disorder, because you don't know every single body builder. There's sure to be a bunch of them who wouldn't admit that they had a problem because for a guy to admit to an eating disorder, which is generally viewed as a girls problem, would be incredibly hard. Hopefully this new classification will make people more aware, and help them spot a problem that they may not have noticed before.

 
Old 02-25-2006, 08:54 PM   #14
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Re: Anyone read this news?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mandabear
i don't think they are naming this new disorder in attempt to sell more drugs. i have an eating disorder and i'm not on any perscriptions that are supposed to help me stop. Eating disorders are not all about getting skinny or getting bulked up. But when you are overly obsessed with your body, with food, and exercise, you have a problem, because it isnt normal. I dont think it's fair for you to say that only "a very small number" of bodybuilders have this disorder, because you don't know every single body builder. There's sure to be a bunch of them who wouldn't admit that they had a problem because for a guy to admit to an eating disorder, which is generally viewed as a girls problem, would be incredibly hard. Hopefully this new classification will make people more aware, and help them spot a problem that they may not have noticed before.
I think most bodybuilders are on a training/lifestyle regiment and it's to gain the type of body they want...so what's wrong with that, even if it was obsessive...but yes we've all agreed anything can be taken way too far. However, the criteria for the person being diagnosed with the disorder can be very loose and I am suspicious of the trend towards drugs these days as I've expressed I know alot of people who have been victims of that.

I am glad you don't take any drugs for your disorder, that's how it should be. Did you go to a psychologist or psychiatrist? That's the key. Psychologists are trained more I think to deal with these problems; whereas the psychiatrists seem to be mainly for pill dispensing and are in love with the chemical imbalance theory as the reason for everything as though emotions, life situations/problems, abuse, grief, learned behaviors etc. just don't exist.

Anyway, I hope you are doing well with your therapy and will get better(and healthy) soon!

 
Old 02-26-2006, 01:53 PM   #15
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Re: Anyone read this news?

i understand that body builders do what they do in order to change their bodies. there's nothing wrong with that. a person can start running or doing other cardio/weight lifting in order to get in shape and get the body they want. there's nothing wrong with that. However there is something wrong when it becomes an obsession. When you can't participate in life because all you are thinking about is exercising, or eating, all you can think about is getting this body. When you can't do other things because you can't focus on anything else, then I think it is a problem. There's nothing wrong with exercising in a healthy way and eating healthy, but when it can be taken too far. It's not just some body builders, there are some people who are obsessed/addicted to exercise. Feeling the need to do everything that they can in order to burn extra calories. Exercise bulimia, or anorexia athletica. I'm sure there's many classifications.

I am seeing a therapist and a nutritionist, both specialize in eating disorders. Thanks for the encouragement:-)

 
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