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Old 12-12-2005, 12:59 PM   #1
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Unhappy True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

My daughter, 40, dabbles with various drugs. She has very , very little income which is good in a way. You can tell when she's on something.
Like yesterday; she shows up to pick up her son, 7, and says, "when I get my job you can dump that car and I'll buy you a $150,000 car." And she's real animated w/this long , curly red hair and I just drew back a little bit.
Then she accuses me of "you pulled backwards mom; what did you think was going to happen?" And her son, who is Very good over here, is banging on her cardoor since she won't pay him back his $11 he "loaned" her. He SLEPT WITH the $5 bill I gave him; he said he's used to "mommy taking my money."
So he didn't even trust me. She appears to have 3 boyfriends to choose from to pay her way: one is 79 w/lots of money who's divorced; the other is 46
and a raging alcoholic and heavy smoker; the last is 40 off of heroin for a month but he still gets drunk and cheats on her. All these men keep getting mad at her for being around the others. It's like she does it to feel good about her attractiveness to these gems. Her son sees all 3 of them on different days at different times; I guess he'll never take a relationship seriously. She is worse now. Worse than ever. In 2005 she has : smoked crack, gotten drunk and knocked over a table in public, got a job and quit in a month, taken dozens or more pills, burned one of these guy's books, called the police, gone to the ER twice when one dumped her, gone out of state to "work" then came back in 3 days, ordered $300 worth of clothes from a catalog she won't pay for,
gotten a summons to court for harrassment of her boyfriends mother ,
put $17,000 miles on a new car with only leaving town once, and her child is a JEWEL and we all feel so sorry for him and love him and don't know what to do.
She was somewhat of a problem in kindergarten, I suspected something was wrong back then but I never dreamed this would have happened. Oh; her son's father is a crack addict with 3 other kids by 3 other women and hasn't seen this boy, 7, in 2 years.
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Old 12-12-2005, 01:27 PM   #2
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

It is this recovering crack addicts humble opinion that your daughters mental illness is drug addiction. She doesn't just dabble if she's smoked crack and her one of her boyfriends is a heroin addict (using or not today). She needs to hit her bottom and that's not about to happen as long as she has someone to take care of her (i.e. the men in her life). But using crack isn't a one or two time deal. She'll spiral out of control and she'll take anyone in her path with her, including her child.

The child is the one you need to be concerned with right now. Do whatever it takes to assure his safety, security. Does daughter think she is an addict? Is she willing to do anything about it? I assume from your post that answer would be "No" at this point.

I encourage you to do whatever it takes to take care of her child and get into your own recovery in Alanon. You'll get the tools you need to live happily as a parent of an addict.

 
Old 12-12-2005, 02:40 PM   #3
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Unhappy Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arememom
It is this recovering crack addicts humble opinion that your daughters mental illness is drug addiction. She doesn't just dabble if she's smoked crack and her one of her boyfriends is a heroin addict (using or not today). She needs to hit her bottom and that's not about to happen as long as she has someone to take care of her (i.e. the men in her life). But using crack isn't a one or two time deal. She'll spiral out of control and she'll take anyone in her path with her, including her child.

The child is the one you need to be concerned with right now. Do whatever it takes to assure his safety, security. Does daughter think she is an addict? Is she willing to do anything about it? I assume from your post that answer would be "No" at this point.

I encourage you to do whatever it takes to take care of her child and get into your own recovery in Alanon. You'll get the tools you need to live happily as a parent of an addict.
thanks so much for replying. I am not clear on what "rock bottom" means.
You mean sleeping in her car? Or losing custody? She ACTS LIKE she's already hit it with her constant irritability/depression and her son called her The Queen of Misery yesterday. I honestly and truly believe that if she lost custody she'd get worse. She says he is the only thing she "has" in life.
That if it were not for him she'd have "nothing." She is EXTREMELY manipulative. Luckily, I am in contact w/her father and his girlfriend and they agreed with this. Both of them are sort of "in the field" of psychology and neither one will really assist; everyone just tells me to take the child and they'll support me in that decision but no one does it because everyone is
afraid of her; what she could do to them. She intimidates everyone. Today on the phone she goes, "I wish I had an Ativan; I deserve one after what I'm going through." See, she feels she has almost hit rock bottom already and she is in a new house w/a new car and no job. She could get a job at walmart for sure but she thinks it's beneath her (even though her self esteem is really down there). She has a real estate broker's license but won't use it; she wants to make the office rules herself. If you look at her sideways, she quits. Her son has our number; if he calls us we'll go get him. It's only a 15 minute drive. But he doesn't call. Why? Because to him we're boring. With her, he's going places , seeing people, going out to eat, etc. With us,
it's very quiet around here; probably freaks him out. This is a smoke and drug/free household. He seems to be quite normal and to sort of realize his mom isn't well. You can tell they love each other; that's for sure. I just do not want to feel I could have saved him from......I don't know what. She attracts losers like a magnet. This has increased gradually over the last 5 years. I guess because there are slim pickins when you're forty? I'd rather be alone than even DATE any of these guys she hangs with who declare their love for her in some drunken stupor
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:44 PM   #4
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

I went thru this with my brother whom had small children when he was a crack addict for years. You have to SAVE that child. He is too young to know better, and is in alot of danger. (in my opinion)

My family choose to try to get my brother in therapy over and over again. My sis and I even followed him to his "connection" and called the police saying we heard gun shots. We'll we were so busy with him we overlooked the children. 3 years later he is clean but both children are so damaged with what they've seen. Both on anti-deppressants, klonopin to sleep, ritalin to go to school (I am very much against medicating kids) and we think somewhere along the way the small boy was sexual abused. Probably in a crack house. I wish we had thrown him to the curb and taken the children. He was an adult, they weren't.

 
Old 12-12-2005, 09:51 PM   #5
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

Me again Susan...

I forgot to mention about him not calling. I'm sure you've done this, but have you gotten him off by himself and told him to call you day or night if he needs you? And that your very worried about him? I tell all my nephews "now" that it doesn't matter how bad the situation is, mom yelling, something bad that happened you can call me and I'll always keep your secret and help you, I want them to have one person they feel they can trust. Lots of time boys especially are afraid of getting in trouble by telling or calling or afraid of getting mom in trouble. Their little minds are afraid of making the wrong decision.

As far as her not being able to handle losing custody, maybe this is what will do it for her! She probably depends way to much on him emotionally and obviously can't see clear enough to know he'd be better off in a stable enviroment.

Last edited by dreaming4adayy; 12-12-2005 at 09:56 PM.

 
Old 12-13-2005, 01:32 AM   #6
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

Dear Susan,

As a fellow mom, I can certainly relate to your feelings about your daughter. My son (18) is the addict in my life.

I think having an addicted child is further complicated when grandchildren are involved. As much as we know we shouldn't 'enable' the addict, we feel sorry for their children, and don't want to abandon them.

You asked a good question regarding whether your daughter's problem was caused by drugs, or if a pre-existing problem might have led her to drugs and perhaps self-medication. That is the age old question...the 'chicken or the egg' thing. I've asked that question myself many times about my own son.

I've also questioned what is meant by "rock bottom". My rock bottom would be a lot different than my son's, I think. He still hasn't seemed to hit his yet either, and my feeling is that until the pain of living with his addiction becomes more painful than the pain of living sober...he will continue to use. I am aware that if he does continue to use...he basically has three outcomes: jail, institution, or death.

I pray that he will see the light before he encounters any of those situations (although he's been in juvenile jail many times). While I was still 'enabling' him, in a way it was as if I was just prolonging the agony...sort of like peeling off a bandaid slowly, instead of just ripping it off and facing the pain all at once, quickly and then it's over with.

You are indeed in a very difficult position right now, because as much as you love your daughter, even though she may have become a stranger to you now, you know the potential underneath. You know who she once was, and who she could be again. But you have absolutely NO control over where her life leads her. You, even as her mother, can't love her back from addiction, I don't think. Addicts aren't bad people, they're just ill people. The problem is...a lot of them don't want to admit it and until they do, they won't seek the help they so desperately need.

In the meantime, I agree with the others. Please focus on YOU and on YOUR grandson. Those are the only things I believe you truly have any control over at this point. Your daughter is going to have to find her own way, in her own time. We have to trust that God is looking after her and in the meantime we have to look after ourselves as well.

Many prayers for you, your daughter, and your grandson,

Nellie

 
Old 12-13-2005, 02:55 AM   #7
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

As a recovering crack addict I can tell you that "rock bottom" is different for everyone. But when the addict reaches rock bottom, they usually want help because they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. Some examples of things that cause crack addicts to hit rock bottom are as follow:

Losing children
Losing homes, cars, house hold goods
Hocking everything they own for the drug
No lights, water, heat, gas, food, clothing, money, medications, things we take for granted.
Prison
Suicide or suicidal thoughts/plans/actions
Psych Wards/Institutions
Insanity
Prosititution
Stealing/Robbing
Living on the street
Living in crack houses/motels
Losing husbands, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers.....
Losing self respect
Begging on the street
Murdering
Progressing to shooting up cocaine instead of smoking crack
Becoming drug dealer to support habit
Living with abusive significant others just to keep getting the drugs
Sexual Activity that causes you to lose self respect
Pornograpy - Possibly making for money/drugs, involving minors
Taking your child to crack houses/motels
And anything thing else you can think of.....

I experienced many of the above and the one's I didn't experience, I either know someone who is still in active addiction, in rehab or prison who did!!


One of three things WILL happen to a crack addict:

Rehabilitation
Institution (Prison)
Death

There are no other choices for the crack addict. The devil's candy will take you out of this world if you don't recover.

Daughter isn't anywhere near rock bottom as far as living in a nice house with nice things, men taking care of her. She's an addict, when in active addiction, we're manipulative, lying, drama queens/kings, depressed, anxious..... She doesn't have a job because she doesnt want to work. She will hit rock bottom with the new house, car, etc unless someone bails her out. Do not enable her at all with bailing her out money wise. As for her flipping out about if someone took the child, SO WHAT! Let her, it very well may be what will bring her to her knees and get her into recovery. I'm sorry everyone is afraid of her, but that is what restraining orders and police are for.

The child is 7 years old. He's not old enough to make decisions about where he needs to be. Sure all kids want to be where they perceive it's fun. Safe and secure are not fun in childrens eyes necessarily. But his welfare and safety are my biggest concern today. His mom loves him, I'm sure. But don't count on all the men in her life to love him. It's a dangerous situation and I can tell you that from my own experience.

I know this come across as harsh, but it's reality. I'm very passionate about recovery and even more passionate about protecting the innocent children who are hurt by addiction.

I will pray for you and your family in my daily prayers.

Last edited by Arememom; 12-13-2005 at 03:08 AM.

 
Old 12-13-2005, 04:33 AM   #8
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

This post reminds me-of a very dear family member..
that is bi-polar..she probably needs therapy/medication..the impulsivity/addiction are symptoms..irritability..etc.
thankfully-there are meds that really help now-and she can really have a chance at a better life..
shes in pain..
you can call your local hospital and be refered..
i hope she will deciede to get help..
i know how tough this is..ive been dealing w/ these issues w/ my sis for many years.
Goddess Bless..
ggrl

 
Old 12-13-2005, 09:17 AM   #9
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SusanGene HB User
Thumbs up Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

All of you are warm, compassionate people . Thanks for being there.
We are picking up my grandson today when he gets off the bus. My daughter's father, a ph.d, called and we had a 3 way conversation. He said that DPS takes kids from their homes often when not deserved (he works with DPS a lot) and suggested we come get him. Surprisingly, my daughter not only wholeheartedly agreed to pack his suitcase, she even said she may go out of town for a week , alone.
The main reason this came to a head is that one of the men said he was calling DPS today. IF this man had not called me and my daughter and told us this my grandson may have ended up in custody with strangers tonight. The thought of that is unbearable for all of us. Unbearable.
So we'll see how it goes and thank you all for your loving support.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:37 AM   #10
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

AREMEMOM, would you (and others) please list what the dangers are for a child living with addicts? thanks,
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:23 AM   #11
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

Dangers of Child Living With Active Addict

Sexual Abuse (the one I worry about the most, especially with Crack addicts).
Neglect
Not getting baths
Not getting clothes
Not getting clothes washed
Not getting fed consistantly
No lights, heat, water
Not making sure gets to school or does homework
Beatings (if not by parent, buy others in home and around child while using)
Being left alone with other using addicts
Being ignored/mental abuse
Leaving alone while user goes out to use or buy drugs
Child being encouraged to use drugs (not my mom, but other folks - happens all the time)
Put in Porn movies

Some of these things are just that the child's needs can't/aren't being met by parent due to addiction/use. Others are downright criminal and happen everyday as a result of the type of people who hang out with crack users. Now if mom doesn't use at home or allow other addicts to come to her home then some of the safety issues may not be an issue. I rarely allowed druggies to come to my home and other than my ex-bf, they certainly were never allowed to be alone with my child. But now that I'm clean I sometimes worry about if ex-bf was inappropriate to my daughter. She is very mentally healthy, in counseling and I don't think anything ever happened to her physically. She denies such and I pray that she is telling the truth.

Did you pick up your grandson yet? Hope he is safe today. As always I'll keep you and your family/addict in my prayers.

 
Old 12-14-2005, 12:17 PM   #12
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

Yes; picked him up yesterday. He's spending the night again tonight.

Sexual Abuse (the one I worry about the most, especially with Crack addicts).
Neglect--in a way I'm sure he has been such as his teeth rotting out at 3.
Not getting baths--I can't be sure about this one
Not getting clothes--she dumped dozens of clean clothes over here 4 him
Not getting clothes washed---he USUALLY was wearing no socks
Not getting fed consistantly--he had periods thru the years where he was visibly skinny--legs looked like sticks-she had been married for 3 mos to a xanax addict and the guy was an alcoholic also-he Did lose weight then.
No lights, heat, water--we took care of these needs
Not making sure gets to school or does homework--he HAS missed some
Beatings (if not by parent, buy others in home--never.
Being left alone with other using addicts--again, not sure, was left alone with halfway senile man who gave my D Ativan pills for years
Being ignored/mental abuse--some of this is possible; not sure
Leaving alone while user goes out to use or buy drugs--I doubt this
Child being encouraged to use drugs (not my mom, but other folks - happens all the time)--God, I hope not. He would have told me
Put in Porn movies--not yet
THANK YOU SO MUCH, ARMEMOM--I NEEDED TO KNOW THIS!!
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:54 PM   #13
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

hi susan. i have a sister who was the same way, and also with a 7yo. i am in the process of adopting her and go to trial for it friday. you have to do something for the child, before it is too late. we made our move just in time, as it is almost my sister's time to leave this earth. even six months might have made such a difference with disasterous consequences for my niece, now my daughter... best of luck to you, i am so sorry for what you are going through.

 
Old 12-14-2005, 02:57 PM   #14
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Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

ps- my niece experienced almost every single one of the things that aremom outlined above. lucky, she is so strong! but she failed the 1st grade before we realized the true extent of my sister's illness.

 
Old 12-16-2005, 09:30 AM   #15
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Unhappy Re: True Addict? Or Mental Illness?

Hello all, the second guy moved out. Now she's living with the heroin addict.
He left the state for over a week, came back with weightloss and scratches/cuts on his face. From what I've been reading, 80-90% of heroin addicts have a hepatitis D infection (other than C or B) and all types are MUCH more easily spread to family members than AIDS. For instance, by using their toothbrush. So I copied off the information and mailed it to my daughter who said it didn't make her boyfriend FEEL VERY GOOD that I had done that!! I'm supposed to protect HIS feelings when he's having sex (exchanging bodily fluids) with my daughter 3 times a day?? He sleeps late. She claims to have gone to the health dept for testing which I hope is true but it sounds Way too responsible for her. So, what we have here, is a 40 yr old woman that will risk her very life for a man she's known for a month who has no income. Plus, she's risking her son's life. He only stayed w/us one night(he used my toothbrush--never again). WE want him back , she says he's terrible around her BF, he's fine over here. But she says she didn't want him to think she doesn't love him so she asked me to return his SNACKS but not any of his clothes?? So I have bundles of his clothes/toys over here.
My holiday is more or less ruined. Not that that is what's important, I realize that. Her dad who lives in another state wants Nothing to do w/this man; my D is invited to come visit her dad but may not bring the BF. I feel like I"m in a bad dream; nothing seems quite real anymore. My old girlfriend , 65, had hepatitis B when I knew her , no symptoms back then. But now her liver is going and she's on interferon shots that make her suicidal the effects are so terrible. She got it from 3 blood transfusions in Mexico in the 1950's.
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