Did you say that you have (amongst other things) CFS as well as Fibro? Sorry, things are a bit hectic at the moment, my brain is not in gear.
My darling husband's doctor has decided to send him to a consultant to ask about CFS. The exclusion of different drugs, added drugs, different ideas have been thrown about for roughly 18 months now, and it is getting so bad for my husband to carry on normally. He works real long hours, has got a lot of travelling to do before he reaches work and comes home exhausted, goes to bed and gets up exhausted. He is so lethargic. The pills and potions and so on, have not made any difference to my husband's extreme fatigue.
I'm hoping you might be able to give me some insight from a personal perspective tk.
Thank you.
goldenwings
__________________
I am not a medical doctor, I only speak from my own experience of the illnesses I discuss here.
Did you say that you have (amongst other things) CFS as well as Fibro? Sorry, things are a bit hectic at the moment, my brain is not in gear.
My darling husband's doctor has decided to send him to a consultant to ask about CFS. The exclusion of different drugs, added drugs, different ideas have been thrown about for roughly 18 months now, and it is getting so bad for my husband to carry on normally. He works real long hours, has got a lot of travelling to do before he reaches work and comes home exhausted, goes to bed and gets up exhausted. He is so lethargic. The pills and potions and so on, have not made any difference to my husband's extreme fatigue.
I'm hoping you might be able to give me some insight from a personal perspective tk.
Thank you.
goldenwings
"Wings",
I posted a big long reply but my ISP is messing up today as I've been having trouble getting around the web, on either of my computers, so after I posted the reply, I got that "cannot display" thingie and when I hit the back button, ALL of my reply was gone!
So, I am not ignoring you, I'll get it altogether again for you.
tk
Okay "Wings", I'm going to try to post a good reply once again, so check back on your thread later, K? I'm going at it now.
__________________
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Mahatma Gandhi
Last edited by tkgoodspirit; 05-23-2005 at 04:16 PM.
I want to say first of all, it is totally possible that your sweet husband is suffering from complete and total exhaustion. Exhaustion can become severe, but hopefully not "chronic". When it does become "chronic", that is when CFS is suspected. Now, there are many opinions regarding CFS just like FM. Unfortunately. Each doc you speak with will have their own "opinionated" dx of what CFS is exactly. I will share with you my personal experience as far as what 4 different docs have said about CFS and then I'll post some info as far as symptoms and recent (recent as possible!) findings.
There are no tests to determine whether or not you have CFS, it's dx'd just like FM, through a series of tests using the "process of elimination". You know, well, "you don't have RA, Lupus, MS, or what have you" and CFS is dx'd then by the symptoms you are experiencing. Interesting though that SSD considers CFS a disabling condition where as it doesn't FM. More cases for SSD are won on the basis of a dx of CFS than FM. Although the symptoms are similar, it is believed that CFS is an autoimmune disorder, while we are just begining to classify FM as the same.
Let me tell you what 3 of my Rheumy's told me about CFS. My first Rheumy classified CFS as an Infectious Disease and told me that an ID doc needed to treat CFS, though she did not refer out to ID docs. (personally I believe she chose not to refer ME out because of our "disagreement"). Then my second Rheumy told me that he believes CFS is symptomatic of FM. It is well known that with FM you feel fatigue, when the fatigue crosses the line into exhaustion, that is when it becomes "chronic", and there you have CFS. He believes that FM, CFS and MPS all bundle together depending on when you are experiencing the particular symptoms. I don't know how he feels about CFS if you don't have FM? My third and current Rheumy (current for now! LOL) believes out of all her patients that only a few have "true" CFS. She believes CFS is caused by a viral infection that compromises the immune system.
There ARE significant symptoms that differ from FM that can lead a doc to suspect CFS. Let me also tell you that there are two names used for CFS. One is CFS and the other is CFIDS. I'll define that later.
What led me to the CFS dx? I was at an appt with my family doc (GP) and told him my symptoms and that I was so so tired all the time. Not just the FM fatigue. This was different. I would get up for 2 hours, back to bed for up to 4 hours, then up again for 2-3 hours, and back to bed. It was awful. I was so exhausted. Not just tired, exhausted! I had also researched CFS and new the symptoms. It was my GP who told me I was showing signs of CFS. One other thing, I also new that Epstein-Barr Virus was believed to be a cause of CFS, thbugh it is still highly debated between docs. I researched the symptoms of EBV and found I had those, so I insisted on an EBV test. IMO, your husband should also do this. EBV is a common viral infection that approx 95% of the population (I believe these are US statistics) has. You carry it around with you. Just like the "fungal components" we all have in our lungs. Only when the virus is activated or "reactivated" does EBV become a problem. EBV is commonly caused by childhood diseases, chicken pox, measles, etc. And we just carry it around with us, it's dormant. It is the most common cause of Mononucleosis in teens. Epstein-Barr Virus test is done on the blood SERUM. This is very important. My lab girl made a mistake when she first did the EBV test, obviously she didn't do many of them, cuz, she had to use her "cheat book"! She didn't run the SERUM and I had to go back to get more blood drawn. So make sure the test is done on the SERUM. I tested positive for a "past" infection and was told that the EBV Anti-body would remain positive for many many years. So, of course, I had to look into all that. "Past" infection, merely means, I contracted EBV, probably from a virus I had way back when, and it has now "reactivated" causing me other symptoms, and is now considered Chronic EBV since it shows positive everytime I'm tested. Personally, I believe when I had E-Coli last year, it "reactivated" this virus. It took me a long time to recover from the E-Coli. More than twice the normal time it usually takes. And I had a heck of a time with it. I have noticed that since my recovery from E-Coli, I haven't been quite the same. That's when my symptoms of CFS started. I always felt sick. I knew my FM pretty well, and I knew that what I was feeling was "different". So the positive EBV showing a "past" infection, is actually "fuel" for my insistance to my current Rheumy that I DO have CFS.
Now, I'll list the symptoms of CFS: Again, this info is public, not copywrite protected. One of the studies posted here is the actual results (a study about a possible blood test for CFS) but also, not copywrite protected, it even had a "printable" feature, so it is meant to be shared.
What is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?
Chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) is a condition that causes fatigue severe enough to interfere with your ability to participate in normal work, recreational, or social activities. Fatigue caused by CFS does not improve substantially with rest.
Most experts now believe that chronic fatigue syndrome is a distinct physical disease with physical symptoms. Although poorly understood, CFS is quite real and can make functioning normally difficult for many people who have it.
What causes CFS?
The cause of chronic fatigue syndrome is unknown. There are likely to be multiple factors or triggers that lead to the development of CFS in those people who are susceptible.
Sometimes CFS appears to develop following a viral or bacterial infection, but there is no evidence to support a direct relationship between infectious disease and CFS.
What are the symptoms of CFS?
In addition to fatigue, CFS causes symptoms that may include sleep problems, a decreased ability to think clearly and concentrate, memory problems, fever, headaches, muscle and joint pain, sore throat, and tender glands in the neck or armpits. Symptom flare-ups may follow periods of previously well-tolerated mental or physical activity and can last for several days.
CONTINUED
__________________
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Mahatma Gandhi
More:
Although its name trivializes the illness as little more than mere tiredness, chronic fatigue and immune dysfunction syndrome (CFIDS), also known as chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), brings with it a constellation of debilitating symptoms. Here is the differnce between CFIDS and CFS. The Center for Control considers CFS as an immune disorder, while this is still a topic of debate amoung many docs.
CFIDS is characterized by incapacitating fatigue (experienced as profound exhaustion and extremely poor stamina) and problems with concentration and short-term memory. It is also accompanied by flu-like symptoms such as pain in the joints and muscles, unrefreshing sleep, tender lymph nodes, sore throat and headache. A distinctive characteristic of the illness is post-exertional malaise, a worsening of symptoms following physical or mental exertion occurring within 12-48 hours of the exertion and requiring an extended recovery period.
The symptoms of CFIDS are highly variable and fluctuate in severity, complicating treatment and the ill person’s ability to cope with the illness. Most symptoms are invisible, which makes it difficult for others to understand the vast array of debilitating symptoms with which people with the illness must contend.
Other Common Symptoms
Additional symptoms are frequently reported by people with CFIDS (PWCs) such as word-finding difficulties, inability to comprehend/retain what is read, inability to calculate numbers and impairment of speech and/or reasoning. PWCs may also have visual disturbances (blurring, sensitivity to light, eye pain, need for frequent prescription changes); psychological problems (depression, irritability, anxiety, panic attacks, personality changes, mood swings); chills and night sweats; shortness of breath; dizziness and balance problems; sensitivity to heat and/or cold; alcohol intolerance; irregular heartbeat; irritable bowel (abdominal pain, diarrhea, constipation, intestinal gas); low-grade fever or low body temperature; numbness, tingling and/or burning sensations in the face or extremities; dryness of the mouth and eyes (sicca syndrome); gynecological problems including PMS and endometriosis; chest pains; rashes; ringing in the ears (tinnitus); allergies and sensitivities to noise/sound, odors, chemicals and medications; weight changes without changes in diet; light-headedness; mental fogginess; fainting; muscle twitching; and seizures.
Here is a study that has been documented that shows significant results of blood tests drawn on CFS patients which looked at the amounts of protien in the blood of those with CFS. Again, this study mentions doc's names, but it is not copywrite protected and is in "printable form" to be shared.
Protein May Lead to First Test for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Feb. 16, 2000 (New York) -- It's been labeled everything from a stress disorder to the "yuppie flu," but a study in the February issue of The American Journal of Medicine suggests that chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), for which there is no real diagnostic test, causes changes to the immune system that can be seen in the blood of sufferers. The findings could help lead to a test to diagnose CFS and to distinguish patients with CFS from those with other disorders characterized by chronic fatigue, such as fibromyalgia and depression.
CFS surfaced in the mid-1980s when physicians in resorts and towns near Lake Tahoe began seeing a small cluster of people, primarily women, with similar, debilitating flu-like symptoms that included low-grade fever, body aches, short-term memory loss, sleep disturbances, and fatigue that persisted for months.
According to the CDC, chronic fatigue symptoms now affect more than 14 million people between the ages of 17 and 69. CFS is twice as common in women as in men. Diagnosis is often difficult because most laboratory tests show normal or near-normal results and serve only to rule out conditions with similar symptoms, such as thyroid disease. For years, researchers have looked for markers that would point to defects in the immune system that might cause CFS. Such signs could not only further understanding of how CFS affects the body, but also help legitimize the existence of a disease that some in the medical community question.
In the new study, Kenny De Meirleir, MD, PhD, and colleagues from the Vrije University of Brussels, Belgium, looked for the presence of a protein known as 2-5A binding protein in the blood of 57 people who had had CFS for an average of seven years. They compared blood samples from these patients with blood from healthy subjects and patients with fibromyalgia or depression.
The protein was found in 88% of CFS patients, 38% of fibromyalgia patients, 32% of healthy people, and 14% of depressed patients.
According to the researchers, the protein is directly involved in the immune system's ability to fight viruses that can invade the body. Up to 90% of patients with CFS report that their symptoms started after a viral infection. This has led some researchers to suggest that certain viruses may actually cause CFS. But others say a dysfunction of the immune system that causes it to fail to respond, or to over-respond, to invading viruses may lead to CFS symptoms.
De Meirleir and colleagues cannot say, based on the small size of their study, how many people with CFS have the defective immune-system component that leads to the presence of the protein in their blood. Further research also is needed to determine whether the immune dysfunction "is associated with a particular stage of the illness or if it fluctuates over time," they write.
Vital Information:
Chronic fatigue symptoms affect more than 14 million people, characterized by flu-like symptoms including low-grade fever, body aches, short-term memory loss, sleep disturbances, and fatigue that persists for months.
Chronic fatigue syndrome has no diagnostic test, but this could change, as researchers have discovered a protein in the blood that is associated with the condition.
Researchers hope a test can be developed so that CFS can be accurately diagnosed and not confused with other conditions such as fibromyalgia and depression.
"Wings", I would suggest that before your DH sees the doc, that he keep a "diary" of symptoms. Like how long he sleeps on his days off, swollen glands, sore throats, etc. Remember, swollen glands are not just in the neck. They are in the arm pit, the groin area, anywhere there are lymph nodes. The neck, armpit and groin area, are most commonly affected tho.
Okay, hopefully I won't have to "split" the post. I'm not known for my "brief" posts! Unfortunately.
I hope this helps you and your family, my dear. I honestly hope that all this is simply temporary and is being caused by all the stress of your upcoming surgery. You know, typically, men hold it all in, which could certainly lead to exhaustion. Have him learn as much as he can about CFS and what can cause it. I mentioned EBV, some docs will debate that. But it is believed that CFS is classified as a disease of the immune system caused by something viral or bacterial. Again, debated by some docs, as mentioned earlier in the post. Hopefully, this classification will include FM as you noticed, the two are similar. All this debating! Makes ya nuts!
I posted a reply to your thread about Blue about your upcoming surgery, so I hope it isn't deleted. If it is, I think you already know how I feel about you. I would only ask one favor of your family, that possibly your daughter post here on the board that your surgery was sucessful and that you are doing fine. I think once we hear from someone after your surgery, we will all be able to breathe a sigh of relief, and be able to "hang on" until we hear from you
As far as medication goes, for me personally, I asked my GP about a medication called "Provigil". It's a stimulant and it had indeed given me relief from the extreme exhaustion I was feeling. I take 200mg once in the morning and it helps keep me from taking so many naps. I am still tired, sometimes tired enough to still take a nap. However, now, sometimes I won't sleep, but I'll merely "rest". I have been in a lot of pain lately though and sleeping during the day for an hour or so seems to be the only relief I get from the pain. I think that doing this PT is making me more tired and I'm actually experiencing MORE pain. I go three times a week, and after my session on Friday, the whole weekend is spent with me "recovering". My therapist doesn't seem to get this for some odd reason. My pain level actually raises after I get home from therapy, the bursitis in my shoulder is off the charts as far as pain goes, and I have a trigger point in my neck that is so sore and tight, my whole jaw aches. I felt light headed and my legs were numb today during one of my exercises, I had to stop. Thank goodness, I have only the rest of this week and one more week to go!
Have your hubby ask about Provigil or any other kind of stimulant that may help him with his exhaustion.
Hugs,
tk
__________________
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world"
Mahatma Gandhi
Last edited by tkgoodspirit; 05-23-2005 at 09:30 PM.
Wow, you need to gt one of those voice controlled typing thingummies that I have.
My husband is going to read your post in full as soon as is possible for him. He has been having these problems for at least 18 months, so time is of the essence now I feel. A consultant now needs to be brought in.
I don't have a daughter or any children, so my husband will post on this topic to let you know how I am doing after Thursday.
I was worrying that something was going even more wrong with me personally, as I have posted on three different topics and can't find any of them. I thought I was having more brain involvement, seriously, as I knew I had replied or started a topic, but not being able to find them fraked me out and so I feel a bit easier now knowig I am ok.
Thanks for all your work on this my friend, my husband appreciates it so much too.
Take good care.
goldenwings
__________________
I am not a medical doctor, I only speak from my own experience of the illnesses I discuss here.
Last edited by goldenwings; 05-24-2005 at 06:08 AM.