FM without tender points? Chronic muscle pain... - Fibromyalgia Message Board

nevergiveup1129 · 11-21-2008, 02:37 PM

Hi all,

I have been doing some searching and reading here but have not posted before.

My family physician says I have something similar to FM, even though I don't have pain in any of the tender points. I have Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) and difficulty getting restful sleep. When I do have restorative sleep, my muscle pain is diminished after initially being fairly bad when I first wake up. My naturopath is focussing on the healing of my digestive system, including my liver. She feels that my inflammation will be reduced with the reduction of my so-called leaky gut. She also says that labels like FM or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) are really only important to insurance companies, and that each individual manifests illness in distinctive ways. She prefers to try to understand and treat the individual disease processes and symptoms.

My main complaint is that I can't stand up for much longer than a minute without pain developing in the muscles in the low area of my back. I'm also unhappy that I haven't been able to play guitar for close to a year due to pain in the knuckles of my left hand that grips the guitar neck. My right wrist and shoulder (the one that uses the mouse) and neck are also painful. It's like my muscles just don't want to heal very well after strain or mild to moderate effort. As I said, good rest is the most helpful treatment along with good nutrition (esp protein??) and gentle exercise, but sometimes things just seem to keep getting worse no matter what I do. Occasionally, out of frustration, I say to H with it and sit and watch TV all day and eat chocolate and ice cream -- then I'm really sick for a couple of days, but I do get the luxury of some oblivion, so I can see the pay-off I get from such self-destructive choices.

I should also mention that my cortisol levels are high, which is not the case for people with CFS or I think FM. I am a pretty active guy, walking my greyhound twice a day for about 20-30 mins each and swimming every second day. However, the more exercise I do the worse my pain gets, esp if I have to do house work or a lot of work at my computer. I've had chronic muscle pain problems for over 20 years now, gradually getting worse.

So, are there any of you that are diagnosed with FM without the tender points? Do men with FM also have the tender point symptom? What is the difference between Chronic Myofacial Pain and FM? WHat approaches help with healing and restoring your muscles?

I wish all peace and a good attitude no matter what your circumstances are like for today.

Cheerio,

Ted in Canada

PS I will mention the [B]daily meditation book I use: "Above and Beyond: 365 Meditations for Transcending Chronic Pain and Illness." Blessings - T

kirstee · 11-21-2008, 04:09 PM

Hi Never:

So nice to meet you, and glad you found your way here and posted. I'm not sure if you'll find people on the board with FMS w/o tender points. How interesting. . .

Eating ice cream, watching TV, etc., are all worthwhile pursuits once in awhile. No guilt.

I did better on a low-carb diet with IBS symptoms lessening to such a degree that I am rarely troubled. Once I stopped eating offending foods, my bowel had a chance to recover. Hypoglycemia is a common FMS complaint which causes diarrhea/gastric distress in its chonic stages.

My cortisol levels were high at one time, but not so sure I have high levels now. Did your doc have any explanations?? The doc who found the high cortisol levels told me this was from extreme stress. Duh! I was an event planner at the time and I was a whirling dervish of activity trying to keep everything going in a straight line at the time.

Keep posting. We need your input!

Bye,
Kirstee

DeBeachSiren · 11-22-2008, 02:28 AM

Hi,

One reason I like this site is you get all sorts of takes on this disease. We are all the same, but different. Some things work for some and not for others. It boils down to lending a shoulder and trying to answer questions and assist one another.

Never heard of fibro without tender points. Men have the same tender points as women do.

In the United States Fibromyalgia is considered a disease and so is chronic Myofascial disease, not a label for insurance companies. I am on social security disability and they do not grant you that on a label, it's very hard to get. Things are different here. I am sorry, but I am not in agreement with the way your doctor is treating this disease so lightly. You have the right to see any doctor you want to see, but if this was a doctor I had been to see, I wouldn't be seeing her any more.

Myofascial disease is tissue. If you've ever looked under the skin of a chicken you will see a membrane that covers the meat. This is myofascial tissue and it's everywhere. This tissue can also spasm and get into knots just like muscle can. I have this and deep muscular trigger points, spasms all of the time somewhere and they refer pain to other places.

My IBS quit when I stopped pretty much eating anything white. And NO wheat products with gluten. Yeast can also build up in the digestive tract.

I am 53. I have deterioration in my lower back and tailbone and arthritis not due to fibro. You may want to have this checked out to see if this sort of thing is a problem or you have deep spasms that's referring pain to other parts of your back.

There is a doctor that wrote a couple of good books that explain everything in an easy to understand way. Her name is Devin Starlanyl MD.

I wish you well in your treatment and in your journey to get rid of pain.

DeBeachSiren

rosebuddy · 11-22-2008, 02:44 PM

Hey Ted in Canada, you need to get the book fibromyalgia and chronic myofascial pain by devin starlanyl. muscles are fascia and they are covered with fascia. Like that sticky film on raw chicken. the fascia knots up and the muscle or part of the muscle wont release. I had trigger point injections inwhich it was just saline but when the needle is injected into the trigger point which is the size the size of a pea. a very talented pain mgmt doc can find these and inject them. the needle when placed just right causes the muscle to spasm and release. it hurts a little but you get used to it and you must have the release to get the muscle to relax. trigger points can also entrap nerves and cause weird shooting pains, tingling, numbness, crawleys. My main trps were in my back and butt but i had a chain of them from my neck to my feet. when one muscle is knotted and not working, another muscle covers for it. and this just keeps happening. as one trp is released a latent trp becomes active and it has to be released til they are gone or atleast latent.

fibromyalgia is a central nervous system condition where your cns is all screwed up and the nerves are telling the brain there is pain and vice versa for no logical reason. It is more complicated than that.

there are tons of people who have cmp and just call it fibromyalgia. they don't get treatment for the trigger points. they think they have something like lupus or ms both of which are progressive. fms is not. i know there are some people on this board who will disagree with me but i am almost symptom free and i was in a world of pain.

now the tender points can be felt by a good rheumy. I can only feel my tender points when i bump them, like when i bump my knee or elbow in just the wrong place. I couldn't find them initially; my rheumy touched 11. it just plain hurts. they are more tender during flares.

Hope i helped. also have you been tested for lupus? Most people are tested for that and ms before winning the fibromyalgia diagnosis. I strongly disagree with people who say that fibro is a trash can diagnosis because the doc can't figure out what is wrong. there are over 10 million peoplel in the usa with fibro. rheumys treat fibro more than they treat rheumatoid arthritis.

Hope you feel better soon.

nevergiveup1129 · 11-23-2008, 09:53 PM

Thanks for the helpful replies. I will try to reply to your specific suggestions and ideas in more detail later.

Meanwhile, please accept my belated best wishes for a happy Thanksgiving. Here in Canada we celebrate Thanksgiving the second Monday of October, but I've heard the New England pilgrims chose Dec 30 as their special day of gratitude. Every day is a good day for a gratitude list!