What constitutes successful OCD talus drilling? Some pain relief, total pain relief?? Had a stage 3 lesion and underwent drilling 1 year ago. I still have pain and MRI now shows stage 2. Dr. says we can drill again although he never has drilled twice usually does the graft on the second go round.
I had the drilling done as well and it failed and in fact it got worse. I would not suggest doing another drilling. A year and half later and well over due I had the OATS surgery which they took a graft from my knee and plugged in my talus. there are plenty of people on these boards with similar stories...search through them and you will find plenty of advice and experiences! who's your doc? i see you're in GA...
I had the drilling done as well and it failed and in fact it got worse. I would not suggest doing another drilling. A year and half later and well over due I had the OATS surgery which they took a graft from my knee and plugged in my talus. there are plenty of people on these boards with similar stories...search through them and you will find plenty of advice and experiences! who's your doc? i see you're in GA...
Thank you for your response. Dr. David Scott at Resurgeons orthopedics is my dr. how about you? How was the recovery difference on the Oats procedure compared to the drilling? Did you have the option for a cadaver graft or only your own knee graft? My dr. mentioned both but I don't know how they determine which one to use. How long has it been since your graft and how do you feel? What stage was your original issue and was it a result of an accident? I am a runner and I am worried about what is going to be harder to live with long term.......continued current pain or the after affects of the graft. Thank you for your help.
I am a runner too...or was...i haven't ran in over 2 years. i know i will never run like i used to but after all that ive been through im extremely happy to be walking and living without the pain and the limp. My issue came from running. It was a slight pain that would come and go and then just got worse and worse over time. Ive had 3 surgeries in 3 years. The first being a debridement..at Resurgeons...after that didnt help i later went to see Dr. Labib for another opinion who is a specialist in this specific injury. I had the option of OATS or microfracture/drilling. Had the drilling winter 07 which failed and the lesion got worse. I basically never recovered and continued to walk w a limp and then w a cane! I am now 6 months post OATS surgery and i have not felt this good in over 3 years! its amazing! Depending on the size the lesion - you may have the option to for allograft (cadaver) or autograft (your own - from your knee) if its too big...you'd prob need the cadaver. i chose to use the graft from my knee to reduce risk of the body's rejection of the cadaver. The oats procedure is a more invasive surgery and a long recovery but WAY more worth it considering how great i feel now. In my opinion, the after affects of the graft is BY FAR the better option than the continued pain. I would suggest getting other opinions from docs but my best advice for you is to go see Dr. Labib at Emory Sports Med!
Thanks again for the info. Who did your debridement at Resurgeons? I guess my big question is......is it worth going through another drilling or oats procedure rather than living with the pain knowing that I can run now (in pain and not very far) but after another surgery I may not be able to run.
my doc told me i will be able to run. maybe one day i will go for a jog but not anytime soon. after all that ive been through i dont want to risk damaging it again. thats just my personal choice. if you're first drilling didn't help, why would you want to do it again? you could get another drilling but then you're risking facing this same question in the future. in my opinion, its worth it to get the graft. in my experience and what i believe is that the lesion will get worse over time. i never even ran after my drilling procedure and it still got worse. everybody's different though as far as their tolerant of pain, and what they consider to be a better quality of life.
my first surgeon at resurgeons told me that i should have gotten the drilling but he wasnt confident enough to do it. so i was not happy about that....and here i am three years later having gone through 2 more surgeries.
Did Dr. Labib do your 2nd and 3rd surgeries? Was your second surgery the drilling and it failed and then you did the Oats? I am having a hard time getting an appointment with him. They want to see all of my op notes and MRI findings to determine if they will see me.
I agree that OATs is so worth it. I've also had 3 surgeries in 3 years. None of my microfractures have worked (had 3 on one ocd, and 1 and then OATS on the other). I did run after OATs. The problem was not from the OATs site, but from tendon problems that I also have. If my tendons were good, I'd still be running. I hope to run again, but the thing is, the OATs procedure helped that pain go away for good.
yes Labib did 2nd (drilling) and 3rd (oats) surgery...he had given me the option when i first saw him to do either drilling or oats....i chose drilling..going for the more conservative approach but obviously would had gone with oats if i knew what i know now.
i remember it being hard to get an appt with him...i too had to send all my notes and mri over to him. he'll see you, it just take some time to get to him! id keep calling and following up....
What stage lesion did you have when he did the drilling...or for that matter prior to the Oats? I was unable to get my papers faxed to them yesterday so I had to mail them. He will not be back in the office until next Tuesday so I guess they will get there before him anyway. I'm assuming your drilling was outpatient, was your Oats too or did that require an overnight stay? I'm hearing different things about that. What facility did you have them done at? Did you feel like he listened to your questions and you knew what you needed to before you left. That is one big problem with my current dr. always has one hand on the door.
yes, he'll listen but don't be afraid to ask a lot of questions so that you feel secure and know exactly what you need to do. i would say he's very confident and is good at what he does. a lot of us on the boards here can give advice because we've gone through this...so its also a great place to seek advice as well. Honestly, i dont know what stages i was at. I do know that before oats by lesion was about 8mmX13mm (which was bigger than it was before the drilling and my talus had bruising) they took 2 plugs from my knee!! there is a point where they would have to use a cadaver for the graft bc they can only take so much from your knee. My surgeries were at the same building you see dr. labib at...just on 5th floor of the executive park building. both were outpatient. i left after surgery on the same day. however, i know others on here did overnights and i think it just depends on a number of factors.
It seems as if the determining factor as to grafting the patient knee vs. cadaver is size of lesion and whether there are existing knee issues that would prohibit it. With the Oats procedure how long were you NWB and partial weight bearing where you were using crutches? That was the worst part for me, the crutches and the inability to carry things and be independent. I was fortunate however that it was my left foot so I could drive, how about you?
mine is my left too so i could drive. Total i was on crutches about 9 weeks (that includes about the last 3 weeks partially weightbearing) after those 9 weeks i walked in the boot for almost 6 weeks (and that includes the last 2 weeks of in and out of the boot to get yourself out of it completely) so it totals over 3 months...yeah it sucks!!!! it obviously takes a lot of patience and you become dependent on others to help you out. after all of it though, im gonna have to say it was worth it bc i feel so much better!
Gotta get back to you and let you know I still have not heard back from Dr. Labib's office. Have spoke to his secretary several times to inquire. She says he will look at my records when he can and get back to me. I have to say my view of him and his practice has really dropped I don't know if I can talk with him objectively at this point. I feel very defensive. I have never had to wait 4 weeks just to make an appointment. His office practice is tainting my view of him as a surgeon. Sorry to whine to you, you were nice enough to make this recommendation. Do you have any other suggestions as to who I could inquire with, or anyone else to avoid.
its okay..i understand how you feel..i went through it too. He is a very good surgeon and obviously very sought after. i assume you are talking to chris, right? she's his secretary. she's the one you would need to keep calling.
another suggestion is Dr. Gillogly at Atlanta Sports Medicine. when i was doing research on surgeons, i found him and he is quite experienced in this surgery. although, ive never met him or been to his practice..i just found him in my research. getting to see a surgeon is just the first step. i don't know what kind of insurance you have, but the oats procedure is very difficult to get approved and unfortunately requires a lot of patience.
I am recovering from an OATS procedure to the talus bone on my right ankle. I had the surgery exactly one week ago and I feel really good. Five years ago I had my first surgery to this bone. I saw an orthopedic at that time and was never given the actual procedure name. He went in and removed the dead bone, drilled up my leg to increase the blood flow to the area and used my own ankle bone in the core of my foot to repair the damaged area. My ankle now was in the stages of collapsing. This time I saw a podiatrist who specializes in limb reconstruction and salvage. About two months ago he phoned me to let me know he recently attended a seminar and spoke with surgeons across the nation about a new cartilege fill option that is being used. Due to the positive responses my doctor received, I choose to go this route rather than having it taken from my knee. The fill he used comes from immature cartildge and is a gel form. It is harvested (sadly) from children who met trauma. I wanted to add to this board in hopes that I can help someone who has been or is going thru what I have. I also feel my decision to see a podiatrist rather than an orthopedic this time has been a good choice for me. I'm looking forward to getting back to all those things I love again.
I have a question that I'm hoping someone may be able to help me with. A bit of history. When my daughter was 9 she broke her ankle/foot/tibia after being pushed down some stairs by a kid at a waterslide. She was successfully treated for the break but pain continued. It took 18 months of pain (as in she often would crawl around the room) and several specialists to diagnose her OCD talus. She had a dozen x-rays and 2 CT's and nothing showed until the MRI after 18 months. Once diagnosed, at age 10, she quickly
had the drilling and recovered well from surgery, non weight bearing period. Her post op x-rays showed healing of the lesion on x-ray. She has seemed to be fine for the last 12 months or so, has been able to dance and play sports with only a very rare complaint of pain, usually after heavy running.
Over the last 3 months however, now aged 11, she has again been complaining of pain with weight bearing. Very variable but always upon exercise. It seems to me to be the same kind of pain and same degree of pain etc as her initial OCD. We went back to her specialist (paediatric OS) who operated on her and was told her x-ray looked fine and that he'd never seen an OCD regrow and wasn't sure why she was having pain and directed us to have an MRI which she will have in a few weeks.
I notice on the forums that most people say they knew after drilling that it hadn't been successful. ie, it still hurt. I amd wondering if it is possible for a successfully healed lesion to then regrow? I am quite confused and very concerned and hate to see my daughter in pain and unable to do normal activities at such a young age. Any help?
