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Old 01-10-2009, 01:08 PM   #1
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Kertie446 HB User
Veins after blood tests

Hi everybody.

I just would like to ask if having loads of repeated blood tests (venepuncture) in the same vein/artery (the big vein in the elbow) can scar the veins/arteries and cause any problems as I've always been curious as ever since I've had my first blood test my one particular vein (the big one) plays up on some days. It throbs like as if it's just been done again. It doesn't play up all the time, just occasionally.

Thanks for any advice any of you may be able to give.

Kind regards

Niad

 
Old 01-11-2009, 08:13 AM   #2
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Re: Veins after blood tests

watching my son have to have repeated blood draws weekly(checking ammonia levels) because of being in liver failure,then after Tx it was twice a week for about a month i would have to say one big yes to that question. he did start to develop some nasty scar tissue there,in both sides. fortunetly it kind of subsided once the draws were not as frequent. he has them every two months now.

having permanent scarring would not be unusual i suppose,it all would really come down to how experienced the tech really is at doing simple blood draws. over the years,i have seen some who seemed extremely unexperienced and should be still practicing on something other than people,espescially children. and others who could hit that vein with absolutely no problem every time. but some scarring over time simply because of having it done over and over again would not be all that unusual.
if you have ever had a tech infiltrate a vein,meaning they went thru it and not into it like they are supposed to,it could casue some scarring within a vein.

if you really need to or simply want to know if there could be some level of blood flow impairment/inner scarring, having a doppler ultrasound run on those veins would show whether or not there is actual scarring within any vein. it shows that blood flow pretty well and would show inner scarring well too. this is one tool that is used to help find blood clots, so i am thinking scarring would show as well? just what symptoms or problems are you currently having? just so you know,for routine blood draws,they always use a vein and not an artery. there are specfic types of tests where they DO need to use arterial blood,but those are much more obscure. hope that helped niad, FB
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:45 PM   #3
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Re: Veins after blood tests

Hi, feelbad.

I was just wondering as I have heard it can cause some scarring having repeated blood tests.

I've had the Practice Nurse/Sister do mine about four times now each month. She always hits the vein right on first try so far.

When you mention infiltrate a vein, do you mean where they go from the side of the vein, not directly in the centre of the vein. I have had that where the same Nurse did that and it scarred a bit more than usual. The hole was to the side of the vein, not in the centre, where I'd have thought it was supposed to be.

The symptoms I have are occasional throbbing like when they first do it sort of thing. That's pretty much the only symptom. It's just a bit annoying when I am trying to do something and then it throbs for no reason.

Thanks for your advice and help, FB.

Kind regards

Niad

 
Old 01-12-2009, 08:12 AM   #4
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Re: Veins after blood tests

when infiltration happens during any type of needle insertion,such as a blood draw or even when starting an IV,it simply means 'thru and thru'. they actually are holding the needle usually at too much of a higher angle so when they go to "stick' it goes completely thru the vein(both walls of) and not "into it" as it is supposed to. does that make sense? you can usually tell somone who has had an infiltration by just looking at the draw site,blood will be under the skin in the form of a bruise? some will only bleed a bit but others can bleed alot,espescially if they are on aspirin or blood thinners.

as long as they actually "hit" the inside of that vein,even if they actually somehow get in thru more of the side,it still would be okay only as long as that needle gets into that vein. you can tell as soon as the person doing the test pulls back on that plunger part of the syringe? just look for that 'flash" of blood as soon as they pull back and create that suction(the "draw"). if you don't see blood,then they either missed the vein completely or infiltrated right thru it and out the other side of that vein.

if i may ask,just why do you need that many blood draws per month? about the only thing you can do to try and prevent scar tissue,tho with that many draws it would be kind of hard to avoid it,is change the vein spots that are being used around a bit so you are not hitting that same vein over and over again so quickly,you know what i mean? giving the veins kind of a "rest' in between the seperate draws really would be about the only thing i can think of to help your situation.

there is another form of set up called the butterfly that uses the vein a bit further down from the one in the inside elbow area? this is my and my sons particular favorite(it doesn't hurt as much,espescially when they have to change out the tubes?),it also is much harder to actually infiltrate with this set up since it has to be help totally parallel to the vein in order to just slide it into the vein at all. just a really good suggestion. hope this helped niad,Marcia
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
Old 01-13-2009, 01:46 PM   #5
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Re: Veins after blood tests

Hi, Marcia and thank you for your help and advice.

I understand what you mean by infiltration now. Sometimes I've had a very small bruise but not that noticeable so I don't think they infiltrated my vein too much. Mainly it just leaves a hole where the needle went and slight tenderness.

The reason I have needed this many blood draws (1 once a month) is because I have early degeneration of my spine and my foot joints so they are trying to rule out or find out if I've got some sort of rheumatic or auto-immune disease that could be causing it. To add to this I've now started to get a red, raised, round rash on each side of my face, symetrically and the last blood test which I had today was to rule out or find out if I may have a form of Lupus (Discoid or systemic, not sure what the tests were that he ordered for it as he didn't say).

They always use the one same vein (the big one in the elbow) everytime they do it but they tend to use different areas of that one vein where it hasn't been punctured before. I'm not sure if that would help with scarring. She managed to get it on first try again so my vein is probably not that scarred up or blood wouldn't always immediately come through on first try? What I have noticed is that nurses always seem to go for the big vein in the elbow rather than the smaller ones and I just wondered why that may be as I'm curious on that.

I don't think my local doctors use the butterfly. They just use the syringe and needle sort. Is the butterfly the one where it isn't directly into a syringe but attached to a tube and then syringe sort of thing? I've seen them used in hospitals more. I think the reason why it hurts when they change tubes is because the person doing it has to slightly move to get the next tube and this makes the needle move a bit as they reach over for it, not sure. Would I be able to request a butterfly if I had to have one at hospital or does the phlebotomist/nurse make the decision? I just wondered as it seems they seem to have a preference for the way they do it?

Kind regards

Niad

 
Old 09-10-2009, 11:45 AM   #6
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Re: Veins after blood tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niad View Post
Hi everybody.

I just would like to ask if having loads of repeated blood tests (venepuncture) in the same vein/artery (the big vein in the elbow) can scar the veins/arteries and cause any problems as I've always been curious as ever since I've had my first blood test my one particular vein (the big one) plays up on some days. It throbs like as if it's just been done again. It doesn't play up all the time, just occasionally.

Thanks for any advice any of you may be able to give.

Kind regards

Niad

 
Old 09-10-2009, 11:53 AM   #7
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Re: Veins after blood tests

Hello All,

I must say I was surprised by this posting. I have done a few pharmaceutical studies where they compare a drug that is already on the market with an genetic version, usually done once a patent expires. In such studies (which are far more common than you think) they can have up to 30 blood draws A DAY! They do so to measure how fast the drug is absorb in your blood and it is necessary to have in order to get a drug on the marketplace. My veins are fine, no soarness. It is all done by doctors and nurses. I have meet hundreds of people that do this and other than some small scars that go away after a few weeks - it does not seem to bother anyone. That is my first hand experience. Which is far more blood draws than anyone would normally go through and the doctors I have asked about it says that it is safe.

Last edited by lbarker; 09-10-2009 at 11:55 AM.

 
Old 09-11-2009, 05:04 AM   #8
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Re: Veins after blood tests

Me too, I've had heaps for my thyroid condition, weekly for months. I never had any problem what so ever. Maybe it depends on the skill of the person taking the blood.

 
Old 09-11-2009, 08:08 AM   #9
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Re: Veins after blood tests

ya hit the nail on the head with that very last sentence, experience of the person doing it just does matter, alot in some cases. the better skilled the tech is, the less chance of scarring and infiltrating the vein, or having to stick stick and restick just to find a viable vein(that is when someone else should be taking over?). its that simple really. i unfortuently DO know some people who have developed a hidiously painful and ugly condirtion called RSD or the newer name complex regional pain syndrome, ONLY because of a botched blood draw. its how it impacts that governing system which is the sympathetic nervous system. it is insane that something like that could even occur with a difficult blood draw,or inexperienced tech. but it does happen unfortuently. they can also cause plain old nerve damage depending upon where they "decide' to even stick that needle? many people end up with some level of permanent vessel damage even from one particularly 'bad' draw experience. but our own bodies overall physiological responses can also play a part here too and conditions we may also have. a few different types of variables there.

the one thing i always ask for now, and this is what my son also asks for only becasue that needle just HAS TO be held more paralell to the actual vein to make it work, is that butterfly set up i mentioned before. it also hurts alot less espescially if they have to change out tubes for various tests done? it just helps to reduce what can occur with the other needle only set up. it is also done a bit further down the arm from that crux in the elbow too.

i am just curious barker, when they had to do soo many seperate blood draws on you, didn;t they just simply set up a different type of line that they could use repeatedly if just that many seperate draws were going to be needed and they knew this ahead of time? that really was kind of a big risk they placed on you there with that many seperate draws being done. it just IS. there are just alot of different things, problems that can stem from having even one draw not done right. most people do not have the slightest clue about all the many things that CAN just 'happen' with what is a pretty common type of procedure being done on them, didn't. this can also happen when someone is starting an IV on you too, just becasue it is affecting the vessel in some way. very insane how certain things can occur within our bodies from seemingly 'innocent' things. glad everything went well for ya tho with no lasting issues. i am just wondering if somewhere, probably within that small print in the consent forms you signed that there was actually something stated about possible 'issues' that could have developed from just having espescially repeated blood draws? liability and all that stuff ya know. that risk is just there, always when doing blood draws. but depending upon just when this was done would have also dictated what would have been in that too. time has brought out ALOT of potential issues when just doing things to blood vessels at all now. like the RSD i mentioned? thats just probably the biggest of the big as far as potential consequences developing. and of course blood clots. FB
__________________
3-22-01,herniated C-6-7
11-20-01,placement of hardware for failed fusion
9-22-03,removal of cavernous hemangioma that was inside spinal cord. Neuro damage to L hand L leg and R leg.

 
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