It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Health Insurance Issues Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-11-2012, 03:27 PM   #1
Senior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: US
Posts: 128
MOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB UserMOnsterpete HB User
Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Just wondering if anyone knows or have come across any article as to why people lose at the hearing level with an Attorney? Is it due to poor represtation, lack or evidence, or what? Just wondering. Thanks

 
The following user gives a hug of support to MOnsterpete:
jgrangran (03-12-2012)
Old 03-11-2012, 03:42 PM   #2
Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: new york ,new york
Posts: 391
ferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB Userferd144 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOnsterpete View Post
Just wondering if anyone knows or have come across any article as to why people lose at the hearing level with an Attorney? Is it due to poor represtation, lack or evidence, or what? Just wondering. Thanks
Hi Pete

I am not sure of any articles or studies,but IMHO having a competent lawyer that specializes in the SSDI field/process is imperative.Going though this grueling,time consuming,and stressful highway is quite overwhelming to just about everyone

Albeit,having a good attorney doesn't guarantee approval, but it certainly amplifies your chances exponentially.The other essential factor in getting approved is having all your medical info completely updated and accurate

Unfortunately I am sure there are many claimants that don't get approved that should......and non-qualified applicants that shouldn't do.Thats how the system works

But I would definitely want all the odds in MY favor going through this long and mind numbing process

GL
Ferd

Last edited by ferd144; 03-11-2012 at 03:44 PM.

 
The following user gives a hug of support to ferd144:
jgrangran (03-12-2012)
The Following User Says Thank You to ferd144 For This Useful Post:
MOnsterpete (03-11-2012)
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 03-11-2012, 04:12 PM   #3
Registered User
(female)
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,777
mscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB Usermscat40 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

I also agree that having a Lawyer that specializes in social security claims only has a enormous impact on a approval or deniedl. Havin all your currect medical records is also very important , and any new medical evidence that has not been presented will strenthgen your claim, or evidence that you can present that has mot been docuemented. I know they look at severity, and age too , so their is a lot of deciding factors they look at . And sadly their are some people that should not have been approved who are, and their are some claimants that should have been approved a long time ago. Social Security proably could not even afford to approve all claims , that is just my opinions, so they pick and choose the ones they think are the most severe and will not get better within a years time.

 
The following user gives a hug of support to mscat40:
jgrangran (03-12-2012)
The Following User Says Thank You to mscat40 For This Useful Post:
MOnsterpete (03-11-2012)
Old 03-11-2012, 05:25 PM   #4
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 626
gayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

In my case, I think my attorney was great, but I had a bad judge.

He has a very low approval rate and rarely approves anyone. He said I could work any job, even though the vocational expert said I had no transferable skills. He said I never saw doctors, when my records show I see my spine specialist every 4 - 6 weeks. He said I was a fake, even though 5 MRIs and a stack of x-rays proved otherwise.

I could go on, but I think the judge had already made up his mind to deny me, and never even looked at my medical records.

You can have the best attorney in the world, and plenty of evidence, and still lose. It happens all the time.

And like mscat40 said, Social Security cannot afford to approve ever claim - and they will review judges who approve too many claims.

 
The following user gives a hug of support to gayle428:
jgrangran (03-12-2012)
The Following User Says Thank You to gayle428 For This Useful Post:
MOnsterpete (03-11-2012)
Old 03-12-2012, 07:46 AM   #5
Veteran
(female)
 
Jacki345's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 419
Jacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gayle4102 View Post
In my case, I think my attorney was great, but I had a bad judge.

He has a very low approval rate and rarely approves anyone. He said I could work any job, even though the vocational expert said I had no transferable skills. He said I never saw doctors, when my records show I see my spine specialist every 4 - 6 weeks. He said I was a fake, even though 5 MRIs and a stack of x-rays proved otherwise.

I could go on, but I think the judge had already made up his mind to deny me, and never even looked at my medical records.

You can have the best attorney in the world, and plenty of evidence, and still lose. It happens all the time.

And like mscat40 said, Social Security cannot afford to approve ever claim - and they will review judges who approve too many claims.
G'Mornin' Gayle,

Thought you might find it interesting on my award letter, it also includes 'should I wish to appeal' info.. and says that should I appeal the ALJ's decision, that the case may or may not go back to the original ALJ. I think this is a change from what you had to endure, right? Didn't you have to go back to the same ALJ?

Think you'll ever get a date for your Fed case? I know you're not that concerned with it, but I'm really surprised how long this had taken. Whats it up to now, 2 years in wait for Fed hearing. Ya know, thats just wrong. You're atty sure has staying power!

Hugs

 
The following user gives a hug of support to Jacki345:
jgrangran (03-12-2012)
Old 03-12-2012, 03:30 PM   #6
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 626
gayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacki345 View Post
G'Mornin' Gayle,

Thought you might find it interesting on my award letter, it also includes 'should I wish to appeal' info.. and says that should I appeal the ALJ's decision, that the case may or may not go back to the original ALJ. I think this is a change from what you had to endure, right? Didn't you have to go back to the same ALJ?

Think you'll ever get a date for your Fed case? I know you're not that concerned with it, but I'm really surprised how long this had taken. Whats it up to now, 2 years in wait for Fed hearing. Ya know, thats just wrong. You're atty sure has staying power!

Hugs
Evening Jacki!

When I appealed the ALJ decision,they did not send me back to the same judge - they just just denied the appeal. That is when I applied for a Federal Court date.

Yep, it has been two years since I applied for a Federal Court date - and I figure it will be many, many more years before I actually go to court. Every once in a while I check my case online, and it says it is still waiting for a date.

It is a good thing I was approved shortly after starting a new case. If I had to wait years and years just to get a court date ..... good grief, I don't even want to think about how bad that would be.

 
The following 2 users give hugs of support to: gayle428
Jacki345 (03-13-2012), jgrangran (03-12-2012)
Old 03-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #7
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 1,349
jgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

I wonder if your time wait will be shorten since that new law came into effect about starting a new case while one is pending?

 
Old 03-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #8
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 626
gayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgrangran View Post
I wonder if your time wait will be shorten since that new law came into effect about starting a new case while one is pending?
I don't know. But it will be interesting to see the statistics in the future, to see how many people start a new case vs those who take it to the Federal Court.

If I had to do one or the other, I would start a new case. By starting a new case, I would probably be in front of an ALJ in about 18 months. Taking a case to the Federal Court level takes years and years.

 
Old 03-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #9
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 1,349
jgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB Userjgrangran HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

I wonder how could they improve this whole process because it boils down to someones opinion in the end and you and I know there are so many deserving people that have to wait and wait seems so unfair. But how can they change things?

 
Old 03-13-2012, 01:48 PM   #10
Veteran
(female)
 
Jacki345's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 419
Jacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

In my case, my atty after he had me running around getting updated medical records and RFCs etc.. never sent them to SSA. When Sen Nelson (FL) office told me that, boy was I MAD (actually, I have a much better word but it will be bleeped) .

While we waited for the Judge/hearing last month, I brought it up -- I asked him straight out why he had me do all this stuff and then he never sent it to SSD.. and before he could answer me, the court reporter/assistant who had been running in and out for my medical records etc called us in and afterwards I didn't pursue it further. But I should have. I'm still angry about that.

For those who have to wait and wait... and are totally caught off guard on the wait time I feel for them. I had a good idea it was about a 2 year wait.

A woman I just met been on SSD for over 20 years said when she applied back then, it was just a trip to SSA and NO WAITING TIME. She had 'some' medical records, she don't recall how thorough but not like we have, it was 20+ years ago. She was ssd'd for carpel tunnel after a car accident. She used to drive for a florist then became a florist herself and taught it as well, then couldn't do it anymore. (even after she had the CTS surgery) But her check is extremely thin... (near 300 a month) So she gets the state SSI and food stamps.

But can you imagine, no waiting time -- at all?? No appeals. No ALJ? And she didn't even have to get an atty.

Last edited by Administrator; 03-17-2012 at 11:01 AM.

 
Old 03-13-2012, 10:51 PM   #11
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 2,602
BlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

In addition to what Ferd said, do a little research before you decide who you are going to use represent you. I would not go with any lawyer of firm who dabbles in SSDI on the side. I want someone representing me whose primary focus is SSDI. More important than anything though is a supportive doctor and good medical records. Without these two things, your lawyer's hands are somewhat tied. Talk to your doctor and tell him or her what you plan on doing and ask for their help.

Last edited by Administrator; 03-17-2012 at 11:03 AM.

 
Old 03-14-2012, 10:33 AM   #12
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 626
gayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacki345 View Post
Have you considered contacting your US Senator? I honestly believe things started working more smoothly in my case once I got them involved. If for no other reason, to let them know and realize how backed up the fed court system is for someone who is in dire need. Adding 2 years+ to SSD which is about 2 years without the hassles you've gone thru is just beyond crazy. In my case if things were to go to SSA from my atty, I would call the Senators office to be sure it really got there.. they kept monitoring things. But for you, it might have more impact. Federal Courts -- US Senators. direct correlation to constituent services.

Hugs
It is a whole different ball game at the Federal Court level, with different rules too. From what I understand, my congressman can't help at this level. Since I have been approved and am now recieving a monthly payment and Medicare, my case would be put on the back burner anyway.

If it were up to me, I would drop the case. It is only for a few months of payments, and at my monthly amount, we are not talking about much money. I really do not want to go back to court.

I am going on with it for the sake of my attorney. At this level the attorney pay schedule is different: I get 100% of the backpay and the attorney bills the court. She has put so much work into the case, I want her to have a chance to get her money. I applied for the Federal Court date shortly before I was approved on my second case - otherwise I would have never pursued it. Did I mention I really do not want to go back to court?

 
The following user gives a hug of support to gayle428:
Jacki345 (03-14-2012)
The Following User Says Thank You to gayle428 For This Useful Post:
Jacki345 (03-14-2012)
Old 03-16-2012, 04:43 AM   #13
Inactive
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 2,602
BlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB UserBlueSkies14 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gayle4102 View Post
In my case, I think my attorney was great, but I had a bad judge.

He has a very low approval rate and rarely approves anyone. He said I could work any job, even though the vocational expert said I had no transferable skills. He said I never saw doctors, when my records show I see my spine specialist every 4 - 6 weeks. He said I was a fake, even though 5 MRIs and a stack of x-rays proved otherwise.

I could go on, but I think the judge had already made up his mind to deny me, and never even looked at my medical records.

You can have the best attorney in the world, and plenty of evidence, and still lose. It happens all the time.

And like mscat40 said, Social Security cannot afford to approve ever claim - and they will review judges who approve too many claims.
Sorry about the bad judge experience Gayle. There are some judges who view every SSDI claim as not severe enough to prevent any person from doing at least some kind of work. This is very unfortunate just as are the judges who approve many claims that should not be approved. My take is simply this. The judges should all simply be 100% impartial and abide by the rules SSA has in place to determine disability without injection of any of their personal bias into the disability equation. All legitimate SSDI claims must/should be approved IMO no matter how many and the same applies for claims that show people are not really that disabled from their medical condition or do not have the medical proof to substantiate.

 
Old 03-16-2012, 07:46 AM   #14
Veteran
(female)
 
Jacki345's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 419
Jacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB UserJacki345 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueSkies14 View Post
Sorry about the bad judge experience Gayle. There are some judges who view every SSDI claim as not severe enough to prevent any person from doing at least some kind of work. This is very unfortunate just as are the judges who approve many claims that should not be approved. My take is simply this. The judges should all simply be 100% impartial and abide by the rules SSA has in place to determine disability without injection of any of their personal bias into the disability equation. All legitimate SSDI claims must/should be approved IMO no matter how many and the same applies for claims that show people are not really that disabled from their medical condition or do not have the medical proof to substantiate.
I got the same kind of judge Gayle had, that was what freaked the heck out of me. Yet, like you said, ALL judges are suppose to be completely impartial - 100% impartial - that is what promise when they raise their right hand before finally getting in the black chorus robe.

I just don't buy that someone somewhere up the line doesn't see that judges like Gayles' or mine maintains such an abnormally low approval rating and no one takes notice - when everyone else is approving 20-30% more. And if I'm not mistaken, in Gayles case, her disability is very visible. But thats just secondary to this issue. When a judge gets any appeal or beyond, that should be a red flag and their records must be reviewed very thoroughly, its our tax dollar at work-and we must keep those appointed judges in 'check'-IMHO.

Hugs

Last edited by Jacki345; 03-16-2012 at 07:48 AM.

 
Old 03-16-2012, 09:18 AM   #15
Senior Veteran
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 626
gayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB Usergayle428 HB User
Re: Why do people lose at ALJ hearing with a lawyer?

I had a long talk with my attorney about my judge, when we were deciding to take it to the Federal Court level. She told me that in all the years she has done this (she is in her late 50ís) that he has approved only one of her clients. He approved a young lady in her 20ís who had pancreatic cancer. She said she could see the wheels turning in his head, trying to figure out a way to deny someone with terminal cancer - but he approved her.

Then I asked her why they keep a judge like that - she said they will never get rid of him! The SSDI cannot afford to get rid of a judge who saves them so much money.

Have you noticed that the judges who approve too many people are the ones who get reviewed? The judges who approve too few people donít get reviewed.

Just my opinion Ö... Money is the bottom line. SSDI cannot afford to approve every person who applies - and I think the judges are going to get even tougher in the future

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
Disability Hearing for Fibromyalgia lifewithfibro Health Insurance Issues 8 07-18-2012 05:13 AM
Hearing today December 13th Slaughter1984 Health Insurance Issues 11 12-16-2011 12:46 AM
ALJ Hearing Decision Received joanne23 Disabilities 85 09-14-2011 09:03 PM
frustrated with lawfirm, questions about hearing tryingtobehopef Disabilities 3 11-14-2010 09:16 AM
Got a Hearing Date. My Chances? Jem58 Disabilities 3 08-17-2009 01:29 AM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added








TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



Whynowthis (44), youtoo1955 (29), SpineAZ (20), vann04 (17), dismama (10), magicssd (8), Titchou (8), sandiemas (7), Jacki345 (6), minnieme1982 (6)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1180), MSJayhawk (1006), Apollo123 (906), Titchou (850), janewhite1 (823), Gabriel (759), ladybud (755), midwest1 (669), sammy64 (668), BlueSkies14 (607)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:06 AM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.comô
Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!