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Old 07-12-2005, 07:44 PM   #1
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My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

My father is 70 years old and has type 2 diabetes. He has always exercised and taken good care of himself. He had a stress test done and did not pass. They suggested a catherization. Well, they told him he had 3 arteries blocked. One is blocked 100% and the other are almost completely blocked. They told him that he was a walking time bomb and needed to have bypass surgery.

Ironically enough, his brother (my uncle) had bypass surgery on Dec 13 2004. he was 78 years old. the surgery was a success, he looked great after the surgery but 3 days later he sadly passed away. the hospital claimed it was a blood clot.

Because of this, my father refuses to have the surgery. I tend to agree with him, although I am devastated with the news. I cannot live without him and I want the best for him. I read that there is something called ANGIOPRIM that clears up blcoked arteries. [url]http://www.angioprim.com[/url]
Has anyone heard of this? Also, does anyone have any advice on alternatives to bypass surgery for diabetics?

Any information you can provide me with would be greatly appreciated.

 
Old 07-12-2005, 10:36 PM   #2
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

Gassone,
Sorry to hear abut the cath results. The medication you have enquired about is known as Oral Chelatgion. Discussions ab out chelation therapy are on in category alternate medicine.[URL=http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=13585]Click on this link to see discussion on Oral Chelation[/URL]

Whether oral chelation is effective or not is a debated topic and except for claims by individuals about their success stories, there are no scientific evidences based on studies.

I was browsing through the site mof the drug company you have mentioned and found address of a person in my neighbourhood and met him in person. He told me he had a triple bypass that clogged 5 years later, had three angioplasties without longlasting relief and went ahead and ordered oral EDTA (the brand you mentioned) and instantly started feeling better. I dont know for sure if this is placebo effect only. I tried discussing about him with my cardiologist who shot back " I dont believe in VooDoo, period."

Last edited by Bharat2005; 07-12-2005 at 10:41 PM.

 
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:14 PM   #3
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

Bharat2005,

Thank you for your response. You know, it's very difficult to make the right decision. I think if doctor's would really take the time to think about the lives of their patients and not just statistics, they would sometimes advise us better.
My dad went to see a liver doctor today to make sure everything was fine with his liver and it was by the way. He discussed the operation with this doctor and he said go for it! Easy for him to say.... At the same time, he mentioned the oral chelation therapy and the doctors response was simply BOLOGNA !!!

I am really confused and scared and do not know what to do.

I thank you for taking the time to reply to my message. I really wish that I could find someone with arteries as clogged as my dad's who is on oral chelation and has improved.... Just as proof.

Kind Regards,
Eva Marie

 
Old 07-15-2005, 02:50 PM   #4
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

I am diabetic also and went to the emergency room because my eyes were bothering me and getting extremely blurry with nausea. Turns out I had 100 blockage in one artery, 90 in another and 70 in the third.
I wasn't really given any choice about whether to have the bypass surgery, they just said do it or else.
Now I'm reading that I could have a heart attack anyway in the future... that the arteries might block again, I didn't realize that before. I thought the bypass would assure many more years. Of course if I didn't have it, I wouldn't have had much of any chance at all, seeing how blocked I was.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 
Old 07-15-2005, 04:17 PM   #5
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Unhappy Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

I feel I'm intruding because I'm fine but my friend's sister is 72 and not doing so well. She went to the doctor due to some symptoms; he referred her to a cardiologist and then she simply had the first doctor mentioned do her heart bypass!! She knew Nothing about this surgeon. My daughter works with heart surgeons all day. She said that heart surgery is at best an art form; that some surgeons are artists and some are klutzes. That you should do a lot of research and asking around before making YOUR OWN CHOICE of surgeon.
Personally, I'd not want someone inexperienced; I'd want someone very well known with a great track record. My daughter said, "I can just look at a patient after bypass and tell if they had Dr X or Dr Y."
There is a relatively new procedure I'd suggest investigating. In this surgery, they operate without splitting the breastbone. My friend's sister had her bypass, went home, and the breastbone (sorry if this is upsetting) came apart; it (the wires) didn't hold. She went back and they re-closed it and she says now that even Vicodin doesn't touch the pain. And she told her family she will never go back a 3rd time! When you do a search on bypass you won't find the words, "cut open" or "saw open" in reference to the breastbone. They say, "separate". I have also read that, yes, many arteries CLOG UP AGAIN after bypass. Not always.
They often put in a nice, clean new artery taken from your leg or something and it sometimes clogs up also. I guess what we need to do is know the STATISTICAL SUCCESS RATES of bypass; that is, does bypass extend lives?
Or does one live just as long with clogged arteries. I would Never ask a heart surgeon these questions, of course. Read, read, and read some more.
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Old 07-15-2005, 04:32 PM   #6
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

EvaMarie,

Find a cardiologist who is fond of doing angioplasty and stent. Often the choice is not clear cut as to what is needed only what the doctor specializes in. Perhaps feeling the doctor out ahead of time is a good idea. Tell him you want to avoid bypass if at all possible.

MANY people have 3 arteries successfully stented.

My cardiologist does ONLY angioplasty and guess what I got for a completely blocked Right Coronary Atery? Correct in one...angioplasty and stent and I felt great when I walked home the next morning.

If a doctor who specializes in angioplasty says he needs bypass, then he needs bypass.

P.S. I think the angioprim "oral chelation" is a ripoff and shouldn't be allowed. It is not approved for any medical conditions. Any claims they make are cloaked under the benefits of EDTA intravenous chelation...a very different treatment in no way connected to this silly mix of amino acids and "proprietary" nonsense.

 
Old 07-16-2005, 08:45 AM   #7
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

Not that it isn't a real safe procedure (the angio-ed artery can collapse) but my MIL had an angioplasty at 80 and she's 94 now. But, then, she did pass out on the dance floor at 85 but has little memory of it. Her 2 sisters are in their late 80's and smoke cigarettes. Full of life , those three. GENES are SO much the key to health problems.

My father had a stroke at 82, lost his voice, then in a week was perfect.
At 88 1/2 he had double pneumonia, was on oxygen, and got well again.
At 89 he had another stroke, couldn't talk but was rolling around in a wheelchair and eating. then he died 2 mos later, quietly, after a massive stroke.
A lot of it is in the roll of the dice. So always look at your genetic heritage.
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Old 07-17-2005, 08:58 AM   #8
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

About 14 months ago I was dx'd with a totally blocked LAD, 70% circumflex branch and 98% RCA blockage. Subsequent to ER for pumonary edema the RCA was stented. The partially blocked RCA had developed collateral vessels that fed into distal end of the totally blocKed LAD providing a natural bypass. Bypass was not considered an option because my EF was very low, and there was MV regurgitation due to an enlarged LV.

Medication has reduced the size of the heart to normal, EF up to a low normal of 50% and severe MV regurgitation is now moderate. This all came about in a very short time with medication, proper diet, and exercise. As the heart heals the outcome may be even better!

At the present time I workout 3 times a week, yard work, etc, and I feel great at the age of 73. The non surgeon cardiologist says my condition is OK for a bypass and MV repair, but because I am doing so well with the present regimen, surgery does not appear to be necessary at the present tiime.

I may be a walking time bomb, but there are no guarantees that go with a heart operation either!

Quote: If a doctor who specializes in angioplasty says he needs bypass, then he needs bypass.

P.S. I think the angioprim "oral chelation" is a ripoff and shouldn't be allowed. It is not approved for any medical conditions. Any claims they make are cloaked under the benefits of EDTA intravenous chelation...a very different treatment in no way connected to this silly mix of amino acids and "proprietary" nonsense.


I agree without any further comment.

Last edited by started04; 07-17-2005 at 08:59 AM.

 
Old 07-17-2005, 11:19 AM   #9
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

Thank you to everyone who has posted information re: bypass. Your postings have helped me make a list of questions to ask the surgeon. My dad, the day he found out was quite upset and didnot ask many questions. I just spoke to him and he said that the surgeon told him that his main atrey was locked 100% and he had 2 more that were each blocked at 98%. The surgeon did tell him that the good news was that his heart, other than that was in great condition. No damage and the heart muscle was perfect.

My dad did ask the doctor why he didn't just open tha artery during the CATH and he said he couldn't because it was too closed.

Is this accurate? Can't stent or angioplasty be used if the artery is completely blocked? I am confused.

He is dealing with the Clevland Clinic in Florida (people have told me that it's second best to Mayo Clinic) but I have never heard of them.

My dad's doctors are:
Howard Bush
Doug Boyd


Thank you all again for each and every one of your responses.

Eva Marie

 
Old 07-18-2005, 08:23 AM   #10
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

Quote: Is this accurate? Can't stent or angioplasty be used if the artery is completely blocked? I am confused.

He is dealing with the Clevland Clinic in Florida (people have told me that it's second best to Mayo Clinic) but I have never heard of them.


I have a completely blocked LAD. I was told by a non-surg cardio doc that a completely blocked artery cannot be opened and stented, and it would have to be bypassed.

Lenin said his completely blocked RCA was stented!? There is some confusion There would have to be a method to punch or grind through the blockage before the stenting procedure.

The Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Mn (not Florida or Arizona Mayo Clinic) is either first or second with Cleveland Clinic, Ohio. Both have outstanding doctors and equipment. I'm not familiar with Florida's Cleveland Clinic.

 
Old 07-18-2005, 08:59 AM   #11
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

MAYO CLINIC has branches in florida and arizona. Rochester is fantastic; the CLEVELAND CLINIC is an incredible hospital
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Old 07-18-2005, 11:00 AM   #12
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

Unfortunately brances don't have the same doctors and equipment. Cleveland heart Clinic, Ohio, and Mayo heart center , Rochester have the outstanding statistics and depending on what statistic identified would indicate first or second place.

For example newer procedures and equipment in the above hospitals enable heart surgery to be done "off the pump". The newer procedure provides quicker recovery, cuts operation time and no need for the risky blood transfusion thereby lessening possibility of clots, etc. and require doctor's with the applicable experience as well as specialized equipment.

Last edited by started04; 07-18-2005 at 11:03 AM.

 
Old 07-18-2005, 11:38 AM   #13
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Re: My father is diabetic & needs bypass surgery

Thanks Ken; I wondered about that. My girlfriend's sister has had a Living nightmare w/her bypass at Somerset Medical Center. Two surgeries in two weeks' time. They never mentioned the new procedure you indicated that I have read about.
I wanted to add that my husband is having INCREDIBLE results on his blood testing after taking a bottle of PROTANDIM that was on Primetime Live.
You name it--it's improved a LOT. So we just got on auto-ship (something he would never do with any product before ). He is a type 2 diabetic.
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