Hep C "Hidies" in Tissue? - Hepatitis Message Board

kackles · 04-02-2003, 01:58 PM

Hi All, I have heard people refer to the virus "hiding" in organs or tissue even when it is undetectable in the blood. Does anyone know anything about this? True or False? thanks. .Love. Karolyn

LOST1 · 04-02-2003, 04:09 PM

Howdy-
Karolyn has a great point, I too, would like the people that keep mentioning this fact to prove it also, as I have not seen anything that substanceuates that point, which latly has been brought up more than once, for the virus to survive out of the blood would mean it could survive on the ourtside our skin? ends of our hair,? thats would be about the only place that blood does not exist in the human body?.

Be Positive Be Well+

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--Get Outdoors-Enjoy Life----Neil

sean · 04-02-2003, 08:23 PM

Hi Karolyn,

It's not well put that the virus "hides" in various organs or tissues. Rather, it is that the virus has been found thriving healthily in the spleen, liver, brain and cns, and so on. It seems to live happily in many tissues, not just blood and liver.

As we know there have been, with all treatments used to date, many people who achieve a complete but temporary viral response (blood tests record virus as undetectable), but do not achieve SVR--SUSTAINED viral response. They test positive at end of tx or at 3 or 6 mo. follow up.

There is an additional, smaller group, that achieves undetectability for some time, maybe months after tx ends, but then relapse--virus is detected again.

In both of these cases, a logical theory is that the virus was still surviving somewhere in one or more of the organ/tissue reservoirs, even though too little is circulating in the blood to be detected. And when the interferon or the body's own defenses fade, it replicates again. This is not quite the same as the virus "hiding," but that phrase is used as a summary of what's going on.

Until the advent of PEG, this pattern was actually the majority pattern, the typical case. This may now be getting less true, with newer tx regimes.

It is not a question, then, of somehow "proving" this pattern, as if it were only suspected, or just hinted at. Rather,it is actually the most common pattern found over the years of hcv research. What we've all been so anxious to see is the proof of the contrary pattern--that the virus would go, and stay away, and for a large percentage or even most of us. The very recent treatments offer much more promise that we might be getting there.

Still, it is worth remembering that even with the newest, most effective PEGs, even if a majority of us might achieve long term undetectable status, there is still a large fraction, a considerable minority who will not. So the "hiding" metaphor will still describe what happens to some of us.

peace (please)

sean

kackles · 04-03-2003, 06:12 AM

Thanks, Sean. Karolyn

LOST1 · 04-03-2003, 09:43 AM

Sean-
Well said, BUT the fact still remains that blood is still cycled though those organs and body parts, spleen, liver, brain, etc, And other tissues as well, even our largest organ the skin, and including bone.

I may not be a scholar, but I know that blood and water are found though out our entire body system, when we are found undetected at twelve weeks, [in our blood, yes]
- you know that is what the remaining 36 weeks of treatment is for, to hunt out the remaining hiding Dragon butt bug Viruses and take them out.

Therefore, to say the virus can hide in organs etc, other than in just the blood is incorrect.

The virus may somehow attach it self to an organ tissue, deeply tucked away, but still has to be in contact with blood, therefore eventually the treatments in the blood will attempt to terminate the virus, but in some of us that time frame would be unrealistically too long to do so, for our health.

Some on the other hand, are fortunate enough for the treatments to be successful in the safe time frame, should treatments made to last longer? be stronger?, mixed with Zadaxin?, of course if we knew that we would be all cured-
BUT that is one of the reasons why others and myself are taking these treatments, to perfect these treatments for future generations; someone has to be pioneers in any perfection of any treatments.

This Pegasys treatment, I believe is my shot at "Curing myself", I do not want to hear anymore Bulls**t about me happily living with HCV, and dying of something else, because the Quality of MY life, was crap, even if this treatment does not work 100%, I know its on the right track, because even as harse as treatment can get, I feel better now, than I have in years.

I agree that both sides of the track concerning treatment is healthy and warranted,
but the energy and resources, that is put into this controversial issue should be put into the SUPPORT of all of us here with HCV, regardless of our decisions,

Be POSITIVE, Be Well+

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--Get Outdoors-Enjoy Life----Neil