Well I got a body to body massage. The girl was massaging me on my back and at certain times was lying on the backside of my body naked so that I could feel her vagina touching certain parts of the back of my body.
I was not comfortable with this so after a while told her to stop. She did and I told her I was worried about STD's. She said "I know how you feel my boyfriend gave me an STD once when he went down on me with a cold sore". She then said she only had the one outbreak 8 years ago.
So now I am thinking damn this girl has herpes and her vagina has been touching the back of my body. I could feel it touch my buttocks and certain areas of my legs when she was straddling me and massaging me with her hands.
At one point she fully lay on top of me so her naked body was on top of mine.
Note - I was lying face down the whole time and so she never came into contact with my genitals or the front side of my body.
After she told me she had past exposure to herpes I made her let me check her. She had no visible symptoms whatsoever and looked clean and healthy. Am I at risk for herpes? Where should I go from here?
My worry is that I could get herpes on my backside somewhere even though she was not showing any symptoms.
You don't need to be having an active outbreak in order transfer the virus to another person. The virus goes through periods of "asymptomatic shedding" - basically the virus is active but not showing any symptoms. However, the person carrying the virus has no way of knowing when this happens, and so must consider themselves contagious at all times.
Obviously this girl isn't aware of this (let's give her the benefit of the doubt) or she would have told you up front that she had herpes. Once you get herpes, you have it for life, it doesn't go away.
Regardless of whether or not she was having an active outbreak (please don't use the word clean - it implies that everyone on this board is "dirty", and we're not) you have been exposed to the virus. Even though she didn't come into contact with your genitals per se - the virus can show up anywhere in the boxer shorts region, so she got close enough.
Now it's the waiting game for you, I'm afraid. If you did get the virus and your body reacts to it, you will likely show symptoms in 3 - 10 days, maybe up to a month. Symptoms can include flu like symptoms. However, you may get the virus and not react to it now, act more like a carrier and not show symptoms for years.
If you don't show any symptoms, you will need to go get a blood test. You can't do this for 3 - 4 months, as it takes that much time for your blood to build up the anitbodies against the virus in your system. When you go for your test, ask for the HerpesSelect test. If your blood test shows up negative, you are probably ok.
The chances are pretty low that you would have gotten the virus in this way from a person who wasn't having an active outbreak. But it's certainly possible - most people get the virus when their partners show no signs of an outbreak.
It would be unlikely that you could get her herpes on your thick back skin. Herpes needs the moist soft skin of the mouth or genitals OR if you have cuts or breaks in your skin. Some people get herpes on their fingers if they have cuts in cuticules or other breaks in the skin.
Sounds like she has genital HVS1...so even if you do test postive for type 1, you'll never know if you got it from her or if you had it since childhood. Seventy-80% of adults test postitve for HVS1 and most never had any symptoms so don't know they have it.
Now that Catharine and Matter of time of cleared up the whys and wherefores of your question I wana know more about this body to body massage you got. Was this a girl your dating or a on the sly massage parlor or a real massage place?
It was at a massage parlor. A legal massage parlor. They do erotic body slides, no full service or oral sex or anything like that. I have not had a girlfriend for a long time and was trying to do the safe thing by avoiding prostitutes so I went for a massage which in my mind is a low risk encounter for STD's.
This girl was not humping me all over with her her vagina. It came in to contact with certain parts of my body at times throughout the massage.
Carolyn your post has an alarming tone which i feel is not necessary.
Firstly - the girl likely has HSV 1 as indicated by the fact she only had one outbreak 8 yrs ago and she got it from a cold sore.
I probably already have HSV 1 - many of my friends have cold sores and even ex girfriends. I would think my risk from this encounter is no greater than kissing a girl with cold sores when she is not having an outbreak. In fact it is probably even less due to my second reason as discussed below.
Secondly - I was never in contact with her mucous membranes or vaginal fluid. I did not have sex with this girl. At the very most areas of the outside of her vagina contacted the back of my body. However if the skin was intact this risk would also be minimal. The fact that she had no visible outbreaks also lowers the risk.
As you said - transmission is possible, but the risk is low from this encounter. I do not think it warrants a blood test unless I show symptoms.
And as Matter or Time said a test would be of little value to me given that there is an 80% chance I would test positive for HSV 1 anyway.
Even if this girl had HSV 2 and was getting regular outbreaks I would still feel the risk is low from this encounter. However, I am convinced by the natural manner it which she spoke about her experience that her story was genuine. She even thought she no longer had herpes since she only had the one oubtreak years ago. I do regret not telling that she is a carrier and she is potentially putting her clients at risk as she seems she could have done with some further education on the issue.
You asked for an opinion on the possibility of you getting the virus, and I gave you a few facts. I also ended my post by saying your chances of getting it were pretty low. But you asked, so I told you.
You seem to already know what the possibilities are and whether or not you are likely to get the virus. If you didn't want to hear the possibilities, why ask??
My post wasn't meant to be alarming, and I don't think it is. I said it wasn't likely, but it was possible. That if you want to know for sure, get a blood test in a few months.
Just so you know, I got herpes via someone who has never shown a symptom. It IS possible that she could have transmitted the virus to you - not probable, but possible. If you are worried enough about it to post, then make yourself feel better in a few months and get the test. Then you know for sure.
If you get the test now as well, you'll know if you have herpes already. If you're negative now, then test again in three months. If you're positive now then yes, a test in a few months won't help. Incidentally, this will give you some useful information so that you don't go around possibly spreading it to other people the this girl did unintentionally may have done to you.
"you have been exposed to the virus. Even though she didn't come into contact with your genitals per se - the virus can show up anywhere in the boxer shorts region, so she got close enough."
"Now it's the waiting game for you, I'm afraid. If you did get the virus and your body reacts to it, you will likely show symptoms in 3 - 10 days".
"If you don't show any symptoms, you will need to go get a blood test. You can't do this for 3 - 4 months, as it takes that much time for your blood to build up the anitbodies against the virus in your system."
Sounds pretty alarming to me. If I were an uninformed reader, then this would give me a panic attack. I would have worried for three months and then gone and got a test which probably would show up positive and assumed I was now a carrier of genital herpes which was given to by the girl at the massage parlour (even though I could have just as easily been exposed sharing a cigarette with my mate who had a cold sore at the time).
Although the risk is low, you decided to mention that after you mentioned the above. Sometimes the way you phrase things can make a whole lot of difference to the reader. Statements can either be comforting or alarming. There is no need to send uninformed readers into a state or hysteria that they have a virus especially when the chances are more likely than not that they dont. Even if the chances are likely that they have herpes, your words should aim to comfort them and not make them scared as that is what these forums are for. To educate people....
As far as me posting when I already knew the answer -lets just say I was looking for some comfort.
Am I at risk for herpes? Where should I go from here?
My worry is that I could get herpes on my backside somewhere even though she was not showing any symptoms.
You asked this and were answered as best we can answer. Yes there IS a risk of getting herpes in this manner. You asked where to go from here and were told to get a blood test in 3 to 4 months. I'm sure this ISN'T what you want to hear but it's the best we can tell you. Sorry. You can even be a virgin and get herpes...sad but true! If she was rubbing her vagina all over your body and she told you herself she has herpes(it doesn't ever go away BTW) there is a risk she could spread it to you. Sorry if that's not what people want to hear but it is true. Are we supposed to say that there is no chance of spreading it in this manner when there actually is a chance?
You asked this and were answered as best we can answer. Yes there IS a risk of getting herpes in this manner. You asked where to go from here and were told to get a blood test in 3 to 4 months. I'm sure this ISN'T what you want to hear but it's the best we can tell you. Sorry. You can even be a virgin and get herpes...sad but true! If she was rubbing her vagina all over your body and she told you herself she has herpes(it doesn't ever go away BTW) there is a risk she could spread it to you. Sorry if that's not what people want to hear but it is true. Are we supposed to say that there is no chance of spreading it in this manner when there actually is a chance?
FYI - she was not rubbing her vagina all over me. I clarified this point in my last post.
In my opinion the risk is too small to worry about. Based on the following factors: She was likely to have HSV -1, I did not sleep with her or come into contact with her bodily fluids or mucous membranes, her vagina only touched my intact skin in certain places, and she was not having an outbreak.
You cannot possibly tell me that this is a high risk situation. Like I said I have kissed girls who have had cold sores and shared smokes with mates who have them aswell. The risk in this case is no greater if not less.
I just did not agree with the language used by Catharine as it was in my opinion unnecessarily alarming and misleading to the uninformed reader and could result in a state of fear and panic that is not justifiable given the circumstances.
Now you keep mentioning this blood test - that is fine. But I still argue my case that it proves nothing in the absence of symptoms. Unless as Catharine so wisely said "I was to have one now and it was negative and have one in three months and it was positive". That would be a different story.
Like I said its the way you say things - if the risks are small why phrase your sentences in such a manner to make it seem like they are much greater???
If you look at the wording Catharine used apart from the last couple sentences she makes it seem like I have been infected until at the end she mentions that in fact the risk is quite low...
BTW - i know herpes never goes away why do you think I posted in the first place. Otherwise I would not have worried about it as this girl was clearly symptom free.
I did not sleep with her or come into contact with her bodily fluids or mucous membranes, her vagina only touched my intact skin in certain places, and she was not having an outbreak.
Herpes is spread through skin to skin contact. It is not spread in the way you think of an STD such as HIV or syphilis etc. It does not have to be vagina to penis contact. She does not have to have an outbreak to spread it, it is known as shedding. Simply knowing that this woman admits to having had a Genital herpes OB(I doubt she really knows if she has type 1 or 2 but claimed it was from her BF with a cold sore) and given her profession I would feel uneasy if I were you! You really need to do some reading up on herpes, I suggest doing a search for Terri Warren's herpes manual and reading it. It's very well written, anyone can understand it's content. It's not filled with medical terms and jargon.
Herpes is spread through skin to skin contact. It is not spread in the way you think of an STD such as HIV or syphilis etc. It does not have to be vagina to penis contact. She does not have to have an outbreak to spread it, it is known as shedding. Simply knowing that this woman admits to having had a Genital herpes OB(I doubt she really knows if she has type 1 or 2 but claimed it was from her BF with a cold sore) and given her profession I would feel uneasy if I were you! You really need to do some reading up on herpes, I suggest doing a search for Terri Warren's herpes manual and reading it. It's very well written, anyone can understand it's content. It's not filled with medical terms and jargon.
"In the first year of infection, people with genital HSV-2 shed virus from the genital area about 6-10% of days when they show no symptoms, and less often over time. (Both of these figures reflect shedding as detected by viral culture.)"
"Only about one quarter of people with genital HSV- 1 shed virus at all in the absence of symptoms, while 55% of people with HSV-2 do (Wald, New England Journal of Medicine, 1995)."among 110 women with genital herpes, the average number of recurrences per year for those with genital HSV-1 was zero. Other studies have shown an average of about one outbreak per year (Benedetti, Annals of Internal Medicine, 1994)."
Ok I have done my research and I have read your book. I know my facts. Lets face it. If the girl I was with was telling the truth, which I assume she was giving the up front manner in which she spoke about it, then she has most likely got HSV-1 for the following reasons:
1. She obtained it from a cold sore from her bf's mouth
2. She has not had an outbreak in 8 years and she only had one outbreak - characteristics far more common with HSV-1.
If we look at the stats then there is a 25% chance she would shed. And even if she was shedding then she would not shed greater than 10% of days in which she has no symptoms.
So firstly there is a 75% chance she does not shed and even if she does there was atleast a 90% chance she was not shedding during our encounter. Although this is probably closer to 0% due to the significant time passed since her outbreak (8 years).
Even if she was shedding then she did not come into contact with my broken skin or mucous membranes nor did I with hers further reducing the chance that I was infected.
All this points to a pretty low risk scenario if you ask me. Please dont tell me to do my research when I have done plenty I know the level of risk I am in and it is not enough for me to be worried. Even if I did have sex with this girl I would still probably be ok. Although what we did was FAR removed from sex.
Having said that - I will never be putting myself in that situation again as I have learnt my lesson.
Have you learned your lesson?? Learned about herpes?? The best way to indicate that you have would be to go get a blood test NOW, to find out if indeed you have herpes.
You talk a lot about friends with cold sores etc., and believing that there is a good chance that you may have the virus - a true statement based on statistics. If you go get a blood test and find out if you have herpes, then you can be informed enough so that when you get into a relationship you can let your partner know up front, and avoid putting them in the situation you've been put in. Now that you know about herpes, that would be the "educated and researched" thing to do, right?? The blood test wouldn't tell you if you have oral or genital herpes, but it would tell you if you carry the virus.
As for everything else - I'm not going to apologise for answering your question. I can't say I've ever had any complaints before about how I answer posts, and I've answered a lot a posts!! Perhaps it's not so much about how I'm wording it, but about what you wanted to hear. It doesn't really seem to matter, as you had already made up your mind about blood tests and whether you were going to get the virus from the girl. Whatever anyone said that went outside that opinion was going to upset you. Besides, what I said was true - You HAVE been exposed to the virus.
Last edited by catharine101; 10-14-2007 at 07:04 AM.
Besides, what I said was true - You HAVE been exposed to the virus.
The girl would have to be have been shedding for me to be exposed and the chances are if you look at my last post she was not shedding. This is fact. Even people with HSV-2 shed no more than 10% of the time. People with HSV-1 with no outbreaks may not shed at all.
SO I MAY HAVE BEEN EXPOSED. Is it likely? No far from it. So why would I worry about it? It will not do me any good and even if I was exposed it is not likely that I would have caught the virus due to the type of contact we had.
And like I said before a herpes test does not tell me anything. It does not indicate the sight or date of infection therefore it is worthless to me. Besides it is not justifiable in my case given the unlikely circumstances I was infected.
Catharine - why do you want me to worry?
Why do you want Cruise Control to worry?
You seem to like to scare people into thinking they may contract or have contracted herpes so they rush out and get a blood test which will probably only result in more confusion for them. Luckily I am informed but I feel for all those readers who are not as informed and actually listen to your advice. This is why the internet can be a bad place to seek information.
I can see it now - Cruise Control goes and gets a blood test for herpes and tests positive for HSV-1. He then assumes he has herpes and spends the next year living in complete fear of getting in a relationship. Finally he decides to get in a relationship with another "carrier" of the herpes virus and he really does catch HSV-2. All the time there was nothing wrong with him in the first place, he just had a simple cold sore.
Your posts are misleading and dangerous to the uninformed and could create unecessary anxiety in their lives. Again I ask that you think about what you say to people.
I gave both of you the FACTS - I'm sorry if they aren't palatable to you.
Incidentally, sounds like you need to do some more research. You note that if Cruise Control tests positive for HSV1 he will assume he has herpes and worry needlessly. FYI - If you test positive for HSV1 - you DO have herpes. Herpes is both oral and genital. "Just a cold sore" means you have herpes. Cold Sores ARE oral herpes. That's why this is such an epidemic, because of the attitude or misinterpretation or just general ignorance that cold sores aren't herpes. And that's why you might want to get tested now - to prevent spreading it if you are carrying the HSV1 strain, regardless of whether you are symptomatic.
You are very good at quoting statistics, and yet you don't seem to want to apply them to yourself. If you don't get tested (regardless of whether it's because of the body rub), how do you know you aren't spreading the virus too??
I don't want either of you to worry - that's why I recommend getting a blood test or a swab, and finding out for sure. Then you know the truth, and get on with your lives. Frankly, you seem quite adamant about NOT getting tested?? Why?? At least you'd know if you have it now and are possibly spreading it to others...
Just because the possibilities are unlikely, doesn't mean it can't happen. I got herpes from someone who had never shown a symptom. It CAN happen that you get herpes from someone like this. All the stats in the world show that it's a low percentage, but IT HAPPENS. That's why I (we) recommend testing if you've been exposed, even in an unlikely case. Knowing will help prevent the spread of the virus to others. Not knowing (not getting tested) allows the possibility of spreading it to others.
Essentially, it seems like you won't get bloodwork done because of the "it won't happen to me" attitude. Well, if you did contract the virus, then avoiding getting diagnosed is going to lead to the possibility of spreading it to others, and continue with this ongoing epidemic. That's not a very good attitude.
This isn't about how we are phrasing the facts - in fact everyone has said that the possibilities are unlikely. It's about being responsible enough to find out about your sexual health, so that you don't pass the virus on. That's it.
FYI - If you test positive for HSV1 - you DO have herpes. Herpes is both oral and genital. "Just a cold sore" means you have herpes. Cold Sores ARE oral herpes. .
Catharine I know cold sores are oral herpes and I think you know I know this too. What I meant to say is that Cruise will think he has GENITAL herpes when he may just have developed antibodies from a cold sore.
I do sympathize with your situation and respect your desire to make more people get tested to prevent the spread of the disease. However I am still unsure of the merits of the herpes blood test without symptoms. The fact is, alot of people are unsure including sexual health professionals because of the confusion it can create in patients.
I mean at the end of the day whether I have HSV-1 or not it does not change my life in the slightest. I am not going to start telling everyone I have herpes (even though I do) because people will not understand. And I am definately not going to tell my girlfriend I have genital herpes as there is greater chance it was caused from an oral exposure rather than genital.
I have heard sad stories about people taking those tests which leads me to conclude that they can be misleading. I actually heard of one person that tested positive for HSV-1, thought they had genital herpes and then got in a relationship with someone that had HSV-2 and did get genital herpes.
Nevertheless you are a victim of someone who did not get tested and did not show symptoms. I feel for you and understand now why you advocate testing. I would like to apologize if I was rude to you. You are obviously a brave person that is just trying to do the right thing and prevent the spread of what must be a tough disease to live with. I did not see things from where you were coming from.
Fact: You can have hsv1 genitally AND ALSO acquire hsv2 genitally. Or visa versa.
Once the virus moves into the area it does not prevent the other strain of same virus from setting up shop also.
This is about you, not me. I don't advocate testing because of what happened to me.
A couple of your statements really bother me. Firstly... "However I am still unsure of the merits of the herpes blood test without symptoms."
Had my partner known he had herpes, then I would have had the choice as to whether I wanted to expose myself to the virus, but he didn't know having never been tested. So instead, fate chose for me. I'm not angry about this, nor am I angry at him - but given the option, it would have been nice to have control over my own sexual health. So, the merits of you getting a test are to confirm whether or not you have the virus, and so give your future partners the CHOICE. Regardless of whether you got the virus from this current experience or from something prior, now that you know more about the virus, you have the responsibility to future partners to find out for sure, and to give them the choice, and to prevent the spread of the virus. Think of it this way - had you known the girl was exposing you to herpes (regardless of whether she was showing symptoms), would you have let her "bodyslide" you?? Be honest...
Secondly... "And I am definately not going to tell my girlfriend I have genital herpes as there is greater chance it was caused from an oral exposure rather than genital."
Alex - go back to your research. It doesn't matter if it was caused by oral or genital exposure. If you have genital herpes, it's possible to transmit it to another partner, regardless of where you got it from. If you are trying to say that you would have HSV1 genitally instead of HSV2, it doesn't matter. It can be transferred to either location either genitally or orally. Where it comes from just doesn't matter. Again, it comes down to you giving a future girlfriend the choice, instead of making the choice for her.
Overall, you need to put the stats away, and face the facts. Regardless of the stats saying your chances are low, you HAVE been exposed. You now have the responsibility of finding out for sure, and preventing the spread of the virus.
All this being said, I don't think you are really listening to what I have to say. Why don't you wait for someone else to post with an opinion. Maybe you'll be more receptive to someone else.
Last edited by catharine101; 10-14-2007 at 09:56 AM.
This is about you, not me. I don't advocate testing because of what happened to me.
A couple of your statements really bother me. Firstly... "However I am still unsure of the merits of the herpes blood test without symptoms."
Had my partner known he had herpes, then I would have had the choice as to whether I wanted to expose myself to the virus, but he didn't know having never been tested. So instead, fate chose for me. I'm not angry about this, nor am I angry at him - but given the option, it would have been nice to have control over my own sexual health. So, the merits of you getting a test are to confirm whether or not you have the virus, and so give your future partners the CHOICE. Regardless of whether you got the virus from this current experience or from something prior, now that you know more about the virus, you have the responsibility to future partners to find out for sure, and to give them the choice, and to prevent the spread of the virus. Think of it this way - had you known the girl was exposing you to herpes (regardless of whether she was showing symptoms), would you have let her "bodyslide" you?? Be honest...
Secondly... "And I am definately not going to tell my girlfriend I have genital herpes as there is greater chance it was caused from an oral exposure rather than genital."
Alex - go back to your research. It doesn't matter if it was caused by oral or genital exposure. If you have genital herpes, it's possible to transmit it to another partner, regardless of where you got it from. If you are trying to say that you would have HSV1 genitally instead of HSV2, it doesn't matter. It can be transferred to either location either genitally or orally. Where it comes from just doesn't matter. Again, it comes down to you giving a future girlfriend the choice, instead of making the choice for her.
Overall, you need to put the stats away, and face the facts. Regardless of the stats saying your chances are low, you HAVE been exposed. You now have the responsibility of finding out for sure, and preventing the spread of the virus.
All this being said, I don't think you are really listening to what I have to say. Why don't you wait for someone else to post with an opinion. Maybe you'll be more receptive to someone else.
I am listening. Trust me. I dont agree with you that I need testing and you need to accept that.
Secondly - I have dated girls that get cold sores? I probably have HSV-1 so what..
Answer me this - I go get tested and I test positive for HSV-1. Then what do I say to my next girlfriend? That she needs to think hard about sleeping with me cause there is a chance I have genital herpes? thats ridiculous. Like I said I probably DONT have genital herpes and got it from a cold sore. So why would I freak someone out and ruin a good relationship?
... 
