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Old 02-03-2008, 01:18 AM   #1
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CaBoy19 HB User
Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

ok ive been reading that arginine pills can aggravate herpes virus in people
but for some strnage reason i also think i read somewhere that herpes virus is in everyone and in some its active and in some its not??

does that mean arginine can cause herpes???? (sorry if this is completely ignorant but i am ignorant to this whole thing)

 
Old 02-03-2008, 09:17 AM   #2
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

L-arginine promotes the replication of the herpes virus, making a herpes attack more likely. L-lysine interferes with the replication of the herpes virus, helping block an attack. People with any of the herpes viruses should avoid L-arginine supplements or foods that are high in L-arginine. These foods are must nuts, chocolate and many others. I have herpes simplex 1 (cold sores) and cannot eat any nuts except pecans and cannot have any chocolate. I take 1000 mg of L-lysine per day and it prevents my cold sores if I stay away from the problem foods.

I forgot to answer your last question. L-arginine cannot cause herpes, but it can promote a herpes outbreak if you already have herpes.

Last edited by whytry; 02-03-2008 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Forgot to answer question.

 
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Old 02-03-2008, 11:31 AM   #3
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

Quote:
Originally Posted by whytry;342***5
L-arginine promotes the replication of the herpes virus, making a herpes attack more likely. L-lysine interferes with the replication of the herpes virus, helping block an attack. People with any of the herpes viruses should avoid L-arginine supplements or foods that are high in L-arginine. These foods are must nuts, chocolate and many others. I have herpes simplex 1 (cold sores) and cannot eat any nuts except pecans and cannot have any chocolate. I take 1000 mg of L-lysine per day and it prevents my cold sores if I stay away from the problem foods.

I forgot to answer your last question. L-arginine cannot cause herpes, but it can promote a herpes outbreak if you already have herpes.
ok now im confused..

1.)

doesnt EVERYONE get a canker sore (is that the same as a cold sore) in their mouth at some point in their life???
ive had a single canker sore in my mouth before a couple months ago and when i talked to my friends about it they said that theyve got it before too and that everyone has the virus in their body and its not always sexual???


2.) i read that ..."Fifty to 90% of adults have had HSV 1 infection. Infections in children are often mild or cause no symptoms at all. Even if you have had HSV 1, you can still catch HSV 2."
does this mean the HSV1 virus lies dormant in the body even if the symptoms go away ??? so wouldnt larginine be dangerous for 50-90% of adults!?!?


3.) doesnt l-lysine basicaly absorb arginine so it neutralizes it? whats the point of taking arginine if lysine neutralizes it??

Last edited by CaBoy19; 02-03-2008 at 11:35 AM.

 
Old 02-03-2008, 12:22 PM   #4
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

A canker sore is not a cold sore and is not related to herpes. A canker sore is in the mouth. A cold sore is blisters on the lips or near the lips on the outside of the mouth.

I have also read that an estimated 80% or people have HSV 1, but that only a small amount of them actually get outbreaks. Since there is no test for HSV 1 then this is only an estimate. The virus is not in the blood, so it cannot be detected. It lies dormant in the nerves and comes to the surface when agrivated. This is most likely caused by stress or diet, like foods with arginine in them. The arginine can be counteracted by l-lysine. If I eat nuts then I just pop another couple of 500mg l-lysine at the time. However, chocolate is really high in l-arginine. There is no way to get the virus out of the nerves wher it lies, dormant or active.

There are many types of herpes. There is HSV 1 and HSV 2 and chicken pox and the related shingles is also a herpes virus disease. Yes, you can get HSV 2 (genital herpes) even if you have HSV 1. There is also some evidence that the 2 types can be transmitted via oral sex if one partner has an outbreak. I don't know if this is true, but if I have a cold sore then I won't kiss my wife or perform oral on her. Better safe than sorry. All types of herpes lie dormant in the body and are always there. That is why people who have had chicken pox often get the related shingles later in life, usually in their 60s or thereabouts.

Yes, lysine counteracts arginine. Nuts and chocolate contain much more arginine than lysine. Meats contain lysine. Some people use arginine as a nitric oxide generator to help with sexual response. If you take a lot more arginine than lysine then you will get the effects of the arginine. If you take the same large amount of both then they will counteract each other. If you have one of the forms of herpes then you want to avoid arginine in amounts larger than the lysine that you ingest.

 
Old 02-03-2008, 02:58 PM   #5
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

A couple things I just wanted to clarify.

Not everyone has herpes in their body. You must "get" herpes from someone. In the case of Herpes Simplex, (HSV1 and 2) it is a sexually transmitted disease. It is transferred via direct skin on skin contact. It can also be spread by kissing - which isn't sexual, I know. In the case of chicken pox etc., kids spread that pretty much by looking at each other! In any case, you must acquire the virus, in whatever form, from someone. On this board, mainly the posts are about HSV1 and 2, which result from sexual contact. However, once you get the virus, it is in your system for life.

Yes, the virus will lie dormant in some people's bodies (sometimes for decades) but can still be transmitted to others. This is how the majority of people get the virus, they don't realize that their partner has it. The partner may not even know.

WhyTry - there IS a test for HSV1. The IgG HerpesSelect test is a type specific test that will tell you if you have HSV1 and/or HSV2. It detects the levels of antibodies in the blood. What it won't tell you is where the virus is located (oral or genital) and how long you've had it.

Finally, I am living proof, as are many others on this board, that the virus CAN be transmitted via oral sex. My partner did not know he even had herpes (we've now figured out that 99.9% he has it orally) but he passed it to me genitally.

 
Old 02-03-2008, 06:39 PM   #6
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

catharine101 - Interesting about the HerpeSelect test. I had never heard about that before. I just read about it. Thanks.

A question about transmitting HSV-1 through oral sex. Are you saying that I can transmit my HSV-1 to my wife with oral sex even when I don't have an outbreak? We have been doing this for 28 years with nothing showing up down there. Of course, she may be one of the people who have it without showing any symptoms. I normally get 1 or 2 outbreaks a year (I just cannot resist chocolate forever).

 
Old 02-03-2008, 07:07 PM   #7
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

Yes, yes, yes!! Absolutely!!

The incidence of genital HSV1 is increasing, mainly due to this exact reason.

Herpes, be it oral or genital, is communicable to others even if you aren't having an outbreak. It goes through periods called "shedding" - basically, the virus is active in your skin cells even though you aren't having an outbreak. During this time (or during an outbreak of course) you can transmit the virus to a partner. You aren't shedding all the time, but there is no way to tell when you are or you aren't, so basically you need to consider yourself capable of transmitting the virus at all times.

In my scenario, my partner didn't know he had herpes. (A bit of research tells us that his ex had serious oral herpes, but no one ever told them it was herpes, then didn't know cold sores were the same thing). She would have transmitted it to him orally in this way. He transmitted it to me genitally. He's never shown a symptom - lucky me, I did.

My guess is, after 28 years, your wife likely does have the virus, but is one of the lucky ones and doesn't show symptoms. She might want to get tested, just to be sure, but obviously at this point there is no need to change what you're doing.

As a stat, the chances of a female contracting the virus from a male with no precautions save not having intercourse during an outbreak is 9% PER YEAR. Pretty low. Some women get it the first time out. Some women never do. It's a crap shoot.

It sounds like, even though you've had the virus for quite awhile, you've never really needed to find out more about it (probably because you are in a stable relationship). I would recommend that you ******** the Herpes Handbook by Terri Warren. It explains a lot about transmission and other stuff. It's an easy read, and good info to know, even if you've lived with the virus for years.

 
Old 02-04-2008, 06:44 AM   #8
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

catharine101 - Thanks. I downloaded the book and we have read a few pages so far. I guess it would be interesting for both of us (wife and I) to have the test, but we certainly aren't going to stop what we have been doing for the past 28 years regardless of the results. I did have a rash in the lower abdomen about 27 years ago and I don't think that I got cold sores before that time. My first wife got cold sores, so I could have caught it from her, but I never had any symptoms before I started dating my current wife and another woman who I was also dating at the time. It was during the time that I was dating both that I got that abdominal rash. I don't remember breaking blisters, but it has been a long time. I'll have to read the book later today. Neither my wife nor I have had any other partners for over 25 years and don't plan to, so I'm not worried at all. We asked our primary care physician if we should have STI tests a few months ago and he said that it would not be useful at this point. We told him about my rash and that we had both had several partners after our divorces.

Again, thanks for the information. Let me know if you think that we are wrong to not be concerned about it at this point in our lives. We are both 62 and have an active sex life together.

 
Old 02-04-2008, 08:04 AM   #9
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

Like I said before, after 28 years there really isn't any need to change what your doing. If she has it, who cares??

For curiousity's sake, you might want to get tested, just to see. But I actually agree with your doctor - what's the point?

I think you have the right attitude about this.

Cheers!

 
Old 02-06-2008, 10:09 PM   #10
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CaBoy19 HB User
Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

ok guys im still confused...

everyone gets chicken pox..

since someone said chicken pox is a form of herpes...doesnt that mean EVERYONE should avoid taking l arginine?

i got a case of geographic tongue after taking some arginine pills...
(or it might be from orange juice) not sure...

is geographic tongue a side effect of arginine??

 
Old 02-07-2008, 04:47 AM   #11
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

The arginine connection is related to the Herpes Simplex virus (HSV1 and 2). Chicken pox is a form herpes, but isn't activated in the same ways.

I have no idea what you are referring to with "geographic tongue"

 
Old 02-07-2008, 07:37 AM   #12
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Re: Im taking Arginine, should i be concerned??

Chicken pox is herpes zoster. HSV-1 and HSV-2 is herpes simplex. Herpes zoster is always in the body if one has had chicken pox and sometimes activates into shingles in older people. Herpes simplex is also in the body once a person is infected. Normally, shingles will only occur once if a person even gets it, but some people do have reoccurances of shingles. My wife and I both got it once when in our 50s. Her sister and mother also got it once. However, her aunt got it a second time.

I have read about the effects of L-arginine and L-lysine on many sites, including some highly rated medical sites. However, opinions seem to vary greatly about the effects on the various herpes. Everyone agrees that L-arginine activates the oral HSV-1 virus and that L-lysine helps prevent outbreaks. However, that is where the agreement seems to end. Opinions are mixed on the effect of L-arginine on genital herpes and I have only read very few opinions that L-arginine is detrimental to herpes zoster.

All I know is that foods high in L-arginine and low in L-lysine will give me a cold sore almost every time. unless I take a lot of L-lysine. I have read that one must take the L-lysine within 2 hours of consuming the L-arginine. As with everything else that you read on the web, this may or may not be accurate.

I suspect that I may also have contracted genital HSV-1 many years ago, but I only had a rash one time that seems like it may have been HSV-1 from one description that I have read. I am only guessing, so it may have been something else.

My wife and I have been together for 28 years and she almost certainly has gotten the virus from me through kissing and oral sex, but she has never had an outbreak. Our doctor sees no point in her getting tested, since we aren't going to change anything regardless of the test results. She is probably one of the many people with herpes who never shows any signs. She can eat the foods that are high in L-arginine and show nothing. She has also taken L-arginine supplements a few times with no adverse effects. There are a high percentage of people that have the herpes simplex virus that show no visable signs of having it. Only a blood test will show if they have the virus.

I just did a search on geographic tongue and found some info. It is adrivated by spicy foods or citrus foods, so I'd have to say that it is from the orange juice.

Do some searches on terms like HERPES, SHINGLES, HSV-1, HSV-2, ORAL, GENITAL, ARGININE, LYSINE. I have found some great sites that have a lot of info, but I can't list them on this forum.

 
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