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Old 02-15-2003, 11:15 PM   #1
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TheOneInFour HB User
Post Genital herpes and spinal problems??

I've recently been diagnosed by a chiropractor as having disc problems at discs L2 and L3 which are almost fused apparently and show damage that could be caused by a long-term infection. (!) When I asked if a genital herpes infection could be a cause he thought that was possible. (!!)

Has anyone else out there ever heard of herpes causing spinal problems like that?? Granted, there are other factors that could also have caused this problem, but I don't recall any injury to that region (the tailbone, yes, but not there) which would be the other primary possibility.

Does anyone know if the spinal nerve ganglia at L2 or L3 are common sites for genital herpes? In particular, do the dermatomes for those ganglia include the genital region, especially the top of the buttocks? I don't have enough detailed information about this to know and information on the Internet is rarely that specific. And my chiropractor only seems to have fairly general info about herpes and how it relates to the spine.

Thanks in advance!

TheOneInFour

 
Old 02-16-2003, 07:50 AM   #2
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Ewww I wish I knew the answers but I can say over the last couple of years I have had some uncomfortable back problems. I'd like to say this has been a problem before being diagnosed, but can not remember fully. Never sustained any injuries or been involved in a car accident, I usually attributed the pain to maybe sleeping or sitting wrong. If it is due to H-2, it would definitely explain the discomfort I have felt periodically--it would might also explain how long I might have actually had the virus prior diagnoses.

BTW, what region of the back is the L2 and L3 located

[This message has been edited by justnotfair (edited 02-16-2003).]
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Old 02-16-2003, 09:06 AM   #3
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Because herpes hides out in the spinal ganglia, many chiropractors have theorized that vertabral subluxations may aggravate it. I'm a skeptic because I've run into my fair share of crooked chiros in my life (not that all MD's are angels with white wings, mind you...).

I would get a second opinion from another chiro and see what s/he thinks before going about this. The statement that you have two vertebrae almost fused is a pretty strong diagnosis and I would love to see some X-rays to back up the claim.

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Old 02-16-2003, 10:34 PM   #4
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tragicy HB User
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heres wat medical advice i got for my back problem

"You have received answers to your medical question: i had sex 3
weeks ago. a day later i started having back pain and about a week later
until now, i have this on-off going pain on the left side of my leg and
groin(jus below ab), slight pain(pulling sensation) in groin most
noticeable when i masturbate. bothering me the most is the burning sensation
i have in my LEFT side of hip, thigh and slightly down to my feet, esp
when i sit and lie down and is getting worse by day.
I suspect infection from herpes but till now have no obvious visible
symptoms . i tested negative for other STDs 1.5 weeks ago but yet to take
the herpes blood test. i do have a back problem history. MRI scans
taken 2.5 yrs ago show that "all lumbar intervertebral discs show features
of dehydration and degeneration. L4/5 disc slightly bulging and causing
mild impingement upon the anterior aspect of the thecal sac. There are
Schomorl's nodes observed at the superior vertebral end plate of
L2,L3,L4 and L5.Some altered signal is seen adjacent to the superior
vertebral end plate of L4. At L5/S1, there is a right posterolateral disc
protrusion noted."
However i never encountered burning sensation before and back pain was
on the right side.Although i still feel the right back pain now, the
groin and leg pains are mostly localized on the left including the
burning sensation. Just like to know if my back condition has worsen due to
sex or it is simply that iam infected with HERPES. Thank you.



1: Your symptoms are most likely due to your back condition. Your
disc disease, which was worse on the right side, could have progressed
due to your activity and now you are having symptoms of sciatica on the
left side.



2: It sounds as if you could differentiate your current signs and
symptoms between an STD and musculoskeletal pain that you could begin to
know in which direction to seek care. You have shown some diligence in
regards to being tested for STD's; however, your final results are not
in. These may be revealing and answer a lot of your questions. As far
as suspecting the pain coming from your back there is one consistent
way to confirm musculoskeletal pain Vs. another source. ALL
musculoskeltal pain can be reproduced consistently. If this cannot be done, you
must look towards another source. ex. if you strain your bicep muscle,
every time that you attempt to do a curl, it would hurt. every time.
Use this same philosophy for your back pain. The actions that you are
descibing involve a lot of muscles that cause you pain. Start simple by
lying on your back and pulling one knee up to your chest. Raise each
leg straight fully to see if this produces pain. Lie on your stomach
and push yourself upwards with your pelvis remaining on the ground. If
any of these produce consistent pain in the back or leg area, you are
probably looking at musculoskeletal pain Vs. another source.



3: From what you are saying it is difficult to specify the exact
origin of you symptoms. Back/disk problems can present with any type of
hip groin or leg sensations. The changes on you MRI are nonspecific
and could occur with no symptoms whatsoever. If it feels anything like
your old back problem, is affected by posture or position then odds are
it is of mechanical origin. The doctors in this forum are not
typically authorities on STD's but initial outbreaks of herpes can have
symptoms of pain in the back or even fever/flu like symptoms. A positive
blood test for herpes could also mean you have had it for a while but never
knew. Have your doctor examine you carefully in person."

 
Old 02-16-2003, 10:38 PM   #5
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TheOneInFour HB User
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeGinny:
Because herpes hides out in the spinal ganglia, many chiropractors have theorized that vertabral subluxations may aggravate it. I'm a skeptic because I've run into my fair share of crooked chiros in my life (not that all MD's are angels with white wings, mind you...).
Well, although he said an infection was the probably cause, the *nature* of the infection was my own idea. I hadn't mentioned to him up to then that I have herpes, so it's not like he was capitalising on it. But from what you're saying, chiro's have theorised that spinal problems may trigger herpes, not that herpes may trigger spinal problems...if I've understood you correctly...??

Quote:
I would get a second opinion from another chiro and see what s/he thinks before going about this. The statement that you have two vertebrae almost fused is a pretty strong diagnosis and I would love to see some X-rays to back up the claim.
I saw the x-rays myself. L2 and L3 (that's in the lumbar region or lower back, JustNotFair) are very noticably close together and parallel, whereas surrounding discs are angled slightly apart in a collective curve. You can also see areas of inflammation (for want of a better term). This is verified from x-rays a few years ago that showed the beginnings of arthritis there.

I admit I'm somewhat sceptical about that part too, Mike. However, my willingness to give this guy a chance doesn't hinge on whether he's right about the herpes factor. It's just an interesting additive that I wondered if anyone else had heard anything about.

I do have some serious problems with a pinched nerve there that sends shooting pains down my right leg, though. Not sciatica; different nerve, going down the outside of my thigh. Makes it feel like the skin has a really bad sunburn or like someone's slicing my thigh open with rusty razor blades. Although I've had this off and on for many years, it's never been this bad or this persistent before. It seems to have been brought on by stress. Not much fun.

Mike, back to one of my original questions: do you happen to know what dermatomes L2 and L3 serve? Thanks!

TheOneInFour

 
Old 02-17-2003, 09:43 AM   #6
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MikeGinny HB User
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OneinFour,

Innervation to the genital region is supplied by S2 and S3 (and maybe some S4). L2 and L3 supply innervation to a strip starting in the middle of the lower back (over L2 and L3...funny that!) to wrap around the lower limb so that they supply the front of the thigh and the inner thigh about 3/4 of he way up (the region supplied by L2 would not be covered by brief-style underwear). L1 supplies the inner thigh nearest the genitalia. It is unlikely that the spinal ganglia for L2 and L3 are responsible for a genital herpes infection as genital herpes infects the sacral ganglia.



------------------
-Mike
Certified Mad Scientist

"90% of people are
caused by accident."
__________________
-Mike
Certified Mad Scientist

"90% of people are
caused by accident."

 
Old 02-17-2003, 01:53 PM   #7
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TheOneInFour HB User
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Thanks Mike. I wondered about that. So much for that theory, it would seem.

1in4

 
Old 05-22-2003, 09:20 AM   #8
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hotsong HB User
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Hmmm...I've wondered if there was a connection myself. You see, my very first OB ever was right after I started having severe back problems, which as it turned out, was a herniation of my L4-L5 disk (Being the low back area). I do believe it's possible my herpes had been lying dormant prior to the back problems starting, and I think the back problems triggered the OB's.

I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me since they happened literally within a couple of months of each other.

 
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