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Old 09-26-2005, 09:41 PM   #16
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heart44 HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

Hi Steve,

Sorry, I thought I read earlier in this thread that your doctor checked you
homocysteine and CRP.

Homocysteine, hs-CRP and Lp(a) are three risk factors that are believed to be the
main cause of atherosclerosis. All three indicate inflammation.

Homocysteine, when elevated, causes oxidized LDL.
It's not elevated LDL, but oxidized LDL that is a risk factor for development of
cardiovascular disease.

hs-CRP - People who have hs-CRP results in the high end of the normal range have
1.5 to 4 times the risk of having a heart attack as those with CRP values at the low
end of the normal range.

Lp(a) - Increased levels of Lp(a) are associated with high risk for atherothrombotic
cardiovascular disease.

Frankie

Quote:
Originally Posted by grioghair
I never had either one checked by my doctor...and, as I am new to this, maybe you could expand upon that a little. My Lp(a) was not checked, either. I was just given the lipid panel test, and other tests which are not related to cholesterol.

 
Old 09-27-2005, 05:00 AM   #17
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Lenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

steve,

I'll be very curious what a very low fat diet does for your LDL's. Keep up the low fat til you get your readings. The dietary requirement for saturated fat for a human is ZERO. Of course, the dietary needs for trans-fats is ALSO ZERO.

The body can make all the saturated fat it needs and from excess protein, carbohydrates, and unsaturated fat...eat too much protein and carbs and you can even make enough saturated fat to pork you up, even without eating a single gram of saturated fat. I mean, look at cattle...they eat no saturated fat but seem to get a lot of into into their steaks, and into our coronary arteries.

There is NO KNOWN NEED to eat even a gram of it.

What the body does need is a few grams of polyunsaturated fats: linoleic and alpha linolenic acid...basically Omega-3's and Omega-6's. And 10 grams at 9 calories per gram should do the trick with a generous safety margin.

It is almost impossible to fashion a DIET with only enough fat to fill these tiny needs but a diet like that might well reverse the effects of years of abusive high fat eating, i.e., the AMERICAN DIET!

Hang on Steve...the numbers you get will be very valuable information to anyone reading this forum. Only a couple more weeks. View it as research sorely needed by your fellow man. We're ccounting on you!

I agree that homocysteine is an inflammatory agent (as is the little ballyhood ferritin) and that Cr-P, though not inflammatory per se, develops as a RESULT of inflammation. Lp(a) howerver is a different animal. It is STRONGLY genetically determined and is a huge lipoprotein that seems antithetical to HDL. it seems to be more an arterial repair mechanism that can be life saving...but every repair adds more of the Satanic plaque and scarring which, if we live long enough plugs up the cardiac plumbing (just a rough view.) The only way to change Lp(a) levels to any appreciable degree is to get new ancestors. It probably developed evolutionarily as an aid to healing and then as recent generation lived longer, it's downside made itself known in the form of heart disease. It is the single element that I feel hopeless battling against (mine is very high!)

THe NIH has assembled a compendium of much of the research and theory behind Lp(a) and this is an excellent though complicated and sometimes contradictory read...but very worthwhile:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=152200

Last edited by Lenin; 09-27-2005 at 05:13 AM.

 
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Old 09-27-2005, 02:42 PM   #18
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grioghair HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

Can I get these checked out when I am re-tested? (Which is actually this Friday.)

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by heart44
Homocysteine, when elevated, causes oxidized LDL.
It's not elevated LDL, but oxidized LDL that is a risk factor for development of
cardiovascular disease.

hs-CRP - People who have hs-CRP results in the high end of the normal range have 1.5 to 4 times the risk of having a heart attack as those with CRP values at the low end of the normal range.

Lp(a) - Increased levels of Lp(a) are associated with high risk for atherothrombotic cardiovascular disease.

 
Old 09-27-2005, 03:01 PM   #19
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grioghair HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

I don't know what it does for your LDLs, but I do know that it is not good for your health. I was losing weight fast, and felt very weak and depressed. My weight dropped from 145lbs to around 139lbs. The object of the exercise was not to lose weight, which was not a problem to begin with. I don't agree with the "zero saturated fat" theory, as I felt the effects of zero fat on my own body. It began to make me feel sick and nauseated. Maybe people can learn by my own mistakes.

I am getting tested again on Friday morning at 10am. I can let the board know how my bloodcount comes out by about Wednesday of next week, probably.

I am consuming a little fat now, but it is no longer zero. I have a very physically demanding job that requires me to have a lot of energy. I am consuming just enough to keep my healthy. I know my LDLs have decreased a lot, though. How do I know this? It is because of the way I felt when I ate some fat. I know reduction of fat has had a profound effect on my bloodcount. I am health-conscious, but I am not going to put my health in jeopardy. 90% of my bad-eating habits have been eradicated - that (if the problem is not genetic) was the main culprit.

The other problem was I picked up a virus. No-one else in my family did. The reason? I have compromised my immune system by restricting my diet too severely. Oh well...we live and learn.

I will probably go on meds if the readings have not altered. As restricting fat like this is no way to live one's life. My wife considers the cholesterol genetic - I am keeping an open mind about it right now. Which brings me to my next question: what meds are available for this condition? (Branded and generic.)

Thanks once again,

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin
steve,

I'll be very curious what a very low fat diet does for your LDL's. Keep up the low fat til you get your readings. The dietary requirement for saturated fat for a human is ZERO. Of course, the dietary needs for trans-fats is ALSO ZERO.

The body can make all the saturated fat it needs and from excess protein, carbohydrates, and unsaturated fat...eat too much protein and carbs and you can even make enough saturated fat to pork you up, even without eating a single gram of saturated fat. I mean, look at cattle...they eat no saturated fat but seem to get a lot of into into their steaks, and into our coronary arteries.

There is NO KNOWN NEED to eat even a gram of it.

What the body does need is a few grams of polyunsaturated fats: linoleic and alpha linolenic acid...basically Omega-3's and Omega-6's. And 10 grams at 9 calories per gram should do the trick with a generous safety margin.

It is almost impossible to fashion a DIET with only enough fat to fill these tiny needs but a diet like that might well reverse the effects of years of abusive high fat eating, i.e., the AMERICAN DIET!

Hang on Steve...the numbers you get will be very valuable information to anyone reading this forum. Only a couple more weeks. View it as research sorely needed by your fellow man. We're ccounting on you!

I agree that homocysteine is an inflammatory agent (as is the little ballyhood ferritin) and that Cr-P, though not inflammatory per se, develops as a RESULT of inflammation. Lp(a) howerver is a different animal. It is STRONGLY genetically determined and is a huge lipoprotein that seems antithetical to HDL. it seems to be more an arterial repair mechanism that can be life saving...but every repair adds more of the Satanic plaque and scarring which, if we live long enough plugs up the cardiac plumbing (just a rough view.) The only way to change Lp(a) levels to any appreciable degree is to get new ancestors. It probably developed evolutionarily as an aid to healing and then as recent generation lived longer, it's downside made itself known in the form of heart disease. It is the single element that I feel hopeless battling against (mine is very high!)

THe NIH has assembled a compendium of much of the research and theory behind Lp(a) and this is an excellent though complicated and sometimes contradictory read...but very worthwhile:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=152200

 
Old 09-27-2005, 05:35 PM   #20
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 285
heart44 HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

Quote:
Originally Posted by grioghair
Can I get these checked out when I am re-tested? (Which is actually this Friday.) Steve
Hi Steve,

You'll need a script from your doctor. Call your doctor and explain that you are not only concerned about your elevated LDL, but you want your inflammatory markers checked. You might need to print articles for your doctor that explain homocysteine, hs-CRP and Lp(a), but he/she should already be aware of them.

Frankie

 
Old 09-27-2005, 07:18 PM   #21
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 285
heart44 HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

Quote:
Originally Posted by grioghair
Re: a NO FAT diet
I don't know what it does for your LDLs, but I do know that it is not good for your health. I was losing weight fast, and felt very weak and depressed. My weight dropped from 145lbs to around 139lbs. The object of the exercise was not to lose weight, which was not a problem to begin with. I don't agree with the "zero saturated fat" theory, as I felt the effects of zero fat on my own body. It began to make me feel sick and nauseated. Maybe people can learn by my own mistakes.
Dr Kilmer McCully says that an extremely low-fat diet can pose the risk of essential fatty-acid deficiency, as well as making it harder for the body to absorb fat soluble nutrients - vitamins A, D, E, K and ubiquinone (CoQ10). A severely fat restricted diet also lowers good HDL cholesterol, which is not good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grioghair
I will probably go on meds if the readings have not altered.
Once on meds, you will be on them for life. Meds will make your cholesterol levels about as perfect as they can be but 50% of the people that have heart attacks and strokes have normal or low cholesterol. And that's a fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grioghair
As restricting fat like this is no way to live one's life. My wife considers the cholesterol genetic - I am keeping an open mind about it right now.
Open mind is good. There is growing evidence that inflammation and oxidized LDL is the cause of heart attacks and strokes, not elevated cholesterol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grioghair
Which brings me to my next question: what meds are available for this condition? (Branded and generic.)
I'm sorry Steve, I can't in good concience off any advice for cholesterol lowering meds. I feel that adverse side effects far outweigh any benefit.

Frankie

 
Old 09-30-2005, 09:49 AM   #22
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Posts: 29
grioghair HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

I'm going to have to make this quick, as I am leaving for work. My doctor is running a hypercholesterolemia test - plus the homocysteine and hr-CRP tests. The Lp(a), they are not set up to run yet. He didn't consider the testosterone test even worth worrying about. His opinion is that my elevated cholesterol level is probably genetic-based. He said that if the tests come back high again he will prescribe me Lovastatin, to bring the LDL level back to 100...that is what he is aiming for - 100, from 182. (I'll know on Wednesday.)

Steve

Last edited by grioghair; 09-30-2005 at 09:52 AM.

 
Old 09-30-2005, 10:51 AM   #23
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1,193
Moxie75 HB User
Re: Ldl/tc 182/260

I'm really anxious to hear your results Steve. I have been doing the same for the last 4 weeks and I am down a size in clothes. I am an avid gym freak so I know it wasn't that. I have been virtually animal protein free for the last 4 weeks only cosuming 3-4 oz a day of skinless chicken or fish a ton of fruit and alot of whole wheat and barley and oats. 80% of my diet are whole foods. I'm praying when I get re-tested it is low..good luck to you, Lisa

 
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