It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



High Cholesterol Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-22-2006, 02:42 PM   #1
Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ramona, ca
Posts: 95
edkal HB User
COQ10 Just what is this ?

I have heard about this COQ10 but need some more light on this subject.

All I know is what I can bearly remember and that it has something to do with Oxygen. Is this correct? My Dr. said it was OK to take this, after my asking it was alright, and he said sure. I have been on this now for about a week and it has reduced my muscle pain in my legs from Lipitor. I think I read a thread about this helping another person, but my memory is not to good, so if you can enlighten me, I surely appreciate it.

[removed]

Ed

Last edited by HBMod07; 08-24-2006 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Posting contact information is NOT permitted

 
Old 08-22-2006, 08:16 PM   #2
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Auckland
Posts: 533
Mark1e HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Ed,

It is good to hear that COQ10 is helping with muscle problems. Here is a brief explanation of why it helps :

COQ10 is made by your liver and is used in the muscle cells to produce energy. When you take a statin, it stops your liver from producing cholesterol. But it also stops the production of COQ10. Which is why muscle pain and weakness is a common side effect of using statins. And why supplementing with COQ10 provides relief.

Cheers,

Mark
__________________
Type 1 since 1977. On Lantus, Novorapid and Actrapid.

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 08-23-2006, 02:57 PM   #3
Junior Member
(female)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Etiwanda, CA USA
Posts: 25
Nancy1961 HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Just wondering what is the normal amount of COQ10? Thanks, Nancy

 
Old 08-24-2006, 05:19 AM   #4
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,508
Lenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

I read that a healthy young person produces about 500 mg./day of ubiquinone (CoQ-10.)

Has ANYONE seen any good data showing the effect on the measured CoQ-10 in blood or cells before and after statin administration. What is the percentage lowering? Since this is assumed as GOSPEL on a zillion sites, I'm surprised how difficult it is to find anything quantified. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, because good internet searches are getting harder and harder to do when so many companies are ramming ads in our faces...pages and pages and pages of sales sites for CoQ10!

 
Old 08-24-2006, 04:53 PM   #5
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,069
NHone HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Yes , I have seen the data.....You are right, it is NOT easy to find. Dr. Salvatore DiMaurro found that Lipitor depleted COq10 within 14 days of initiation. He is also somewhat of an expert on CoQ10.

 
Old 08-25-2006, 06:04 AM   #6
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,508
Lenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

NHone,

I searched Dr. DiMauro and found a plethora of references to his treating 7 patients with cerebellar ataxia with doseages of CoQ10 for 300 to 3000 mg/day to get a 25% improvement in a year as measured by balance tests etc. Also several discussions about hereditary ataxia caused by a genetic inability to produce CoQ10 and it's relationship to muscular dystrophy..

Nothing though about normal people taking statins and getting a measured lowering of CoQ10 and the resultant development of muscular problems.



Can you steer me a bit further?

 
Old 08-25-2006, 10:28 AM   #7
Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginai
Posts: 63
Rig9300 HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Lenin

Try the report referenced by the following:
Cholesterol Drugs And The Depletion Of Coenzyme Q10: A Review Of Human And Animal Data.
By Peter H. Langsjoen, MD

 
Old 08-25-2006, 07:28 PM   #8
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,069
NHone HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Lenin, I'm sorry, I should have told you how to find it. I couldn't find it until i called Dr. DiMauro to talk to him about my mother/s ataxia caused by lipid lowering medications. You can find it if you look up...DiMauro atorvastatin and Coq10. Peter Langsjoen is also an expert in Coq10. Most of his expierence is from hands on effects with his patients. He has alos found that while Zetia does not interfere with the production of Coq10 (just like they say)...it does not allow your body to absord CoQ10 and other fat soluble vitamins (what they don't tell you). In effect the entire time my mother was taking CoQ10 supplements the Zetia was not allowing her to absorb it.

 
Old 08-26-2006, 04:19 AM   #9
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,508
Lenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

NHone,

In my research I came upon Langsjoen many many times. I'm afraid I have to put him close to the Wacko fringe. Even giving him credibility, all I see are many "may," "might," "seems plausible" etc. He pretty much clains that CoQ10 cures everything, echo of Pauling.
NO hard data.

I must say, that for something so often reported and accepted as gospel like "statins deplete CoQ10," one might think that there would be a plethora of data or at least ONE good double-blind study. The CoQ10 benefits are beginning to look to me like a really good ad-campaign to sell yet another supplement, a rather pricey one.

Even with my natural skepticism, I must say this lack of evidence really surprised me. It seems almost to rise to the level of the Rask-Pauling hype about ascorbate and amino acids with no real evidence other than conjecture.

I'm really flummoxed by this especially since I have dumped several hundred dollars on this stuff.

Last edited by Lenin; 08-26-2006 at 04:22 AM.

 
Old 08-26-2006, 10:41 AM   #10
Senior Member
(male)
 
Imacarbuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 190
Imacarbuff HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Lenin,
Just when I thought it was safe to give the 100mg of COQ10 I have been taking to speed the recovery from my earlier statin experience-most of the credit for my improvement......maybe not? If it's true the body produces about the equivlent of 500 mg on its own-are supplements like this truly necessary? I've just started back on 20 mg of Pravastatin to lower my LDL number...and I'm still consuming 100mg of COQ10 (which cost double of what the statin cost me!) is it worth continuing while on statins to maybe help offset the reduction that statins cause? Just wondering

 
Old 08-26-2006, 03:56 PM   #11
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,069
NHone HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Lenin, did you do what i said and look up DiMaurro and Atorvastatin? I have also talked to him, and as we all know, not all information is published or readily available. Statins stop the production of Coq10; therfore, you are not getting the supply that your body would normally make. Is it worth taking the Coq10? Or maybe a better question...is it worth trying to lower your cholesterol?

 
Old 08-27-2006, 05:10 AM   #12
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Fords, N.J. USA
Posts: 2,266
ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Our body's production of CoQ10 slows down with age. Scientists say it starts happening after the age of twenty, with a more accelerated drop after forty. So it makes sense to me to take a supplement, particularly if you are taking any medications, such as statins.

Although CoQ10 research is ongoing, I would hardly consider Langsjoen a quack. He has participated in CoQ10 studies since the early 1980s, which is more than most doctors can say. To date, Langsjoen has logged more clinical usage of CoQ10 than any other American doctor. He has used it in his own practice, and has noted that 80% of his patients have experienced clinical improvements in four weeks, with maximum improvement in six to twelve months. He says that as their heart function improves, he has to decrease other medications. So Langsjoen, unlike most other medical practitioners, actually has hands-on medical evidence that CoQ10 benefits patients.
__________________
"Men and nations will act rationally when all other possibilities have been exhausted."

 
Old 08-27-2006, 08:43 AM   #13
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Fords, N.J. USA
Posts: 2,266
ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Lenin,

For the moment, we'd better leave Rath and Pauling out of this. That's a completely different matter, and one which has been totally ignored by the medical profession. So that's still all up in the air as far as I'm concerned.

I don't recall Langsjoen saying that CoQ10 is a cure-all. He just reported the notable improvements he observed in patients who were given CoQ10, which for many resulted in a decreased need for certain medications.

You can cite all the studies you want about statins, but that doesn't make them some kind of miracle drug, either. They don't cure anything. If anything, they probably only lead to more long-term problems, and their potential for causing short-term side effects are underestimated in my opinion.

In your opinion, which is more important for our overall health and well-being, statins or ascorbate?
__________________
"Men and nations will act rationally when all other possibilities have been exhausted."

 
Old 08-27-2006, 10:09 AM   #14
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,508
Lenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

AZ,

Without a doubt, once the minimum amount of ascorbate is taken in with food, statins are FAR more important to health and well being for the large group of people with high and dangerous blood lipids.

If Vitamin C SUPPLEMENTATION or statins were to be removed totally from all markets, I am certain that the damage would be far greater from the removal of the statins. There is zero question in my mind about this.

There is of course a certain mimimum amount of Vitamins C that must be ingested to avoid the deficiency disease, scurvy. For British sailors spending months at sea it was found that some lime juice every day provided it...hence, "limeys." So of course I do not deny that ascorbate is a Vitamin in every sense of the word and necessary for life but with a varied diet of fruits and vegetables, the deficiency isn't likely anymore...even at sea where the only 3 month voayages are on Cunard Vessels with PLENTY of fresh fruit...limeys can get their fill in a waterfall of Margaritas.

Perhaps I am being too hard on Dr. Langsjoen who may be merely a pawn in the hands of the bigger unscrupulous players who use his limited research out of context to trumpet the cure-all, wonder drug aspects of ubiquinone...without a shred of proof.

Last edited by Lenin; 08-27-2006 at 10:10 AM.

 
Old 08-27-2006, 12:34 PM   #15
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Fords, N.J. USA
Posts: 2,266
ARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB UserARIZONA73 HB User
Re: COQ10 Just what is this ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin
AZ,

Without a doubt, once the minimum amount of ascorbate is taken in with food, statins are FAR more important to health and well being for the large group of people with high and dangerous blood lipids.
Well, I can't say that I would agree with that, either, since no one knows what the optimum intake of vitamin C should be. Pauling searched the medical journals for an answer to that, but there is not one single mention of what the optimum intake should really be. True, a mere 10mg will prevent acute scurvy, but so what? I believe....no, I am convinced, that the optimum intake is actually much higher than the RDA. And they keep on raising the RDA for vitamin C. First it was 60mg, then 90mg. Didn't they just raise it again, or at least recommend a higher intake? Nevertheless, I believe that the health of the general public can improve significantly if they increased their intake to levels much higher than the currently recommended RDA. I think that they would remain healthy longer, and not get sick as much. But of course, that would be bad news for doctors and the drug companies, wouldn't it?
__________________
"Men and nations will act rationally when all other possibilities have been exhausted."

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
Statins cause alarming reduction in coQ10? GBug High Cholesterol 27 04-11-2008 12:35 PM
Coq10/RYR combination capsule Pat007 High Cholesterol 5 12-10-2007 06:15 PM
CoQ10 and statin side effects love2fishfork High Cholesterol 5 11-25-2007 01:04 PM
CoQ10 and lowering blood pressure... Mr. Detail High & Low Blood Pressure 6 05-12-2007 10:56 AM
Medications that can lower Coq10 NHone High Cholesterol 13 05-11-2006 06:13 PM




Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Join Our Newsletter

Stay healthy through tips curated by our health experts.

Whoops,

There was a problem adding your email Try again

Thank You

Your email has been added




Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Aspirin
Crestor
Lipitor
Niaspan
Pravachol
  Simvastatin Tricor
Vytorin
Zetia
Zocor




TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS



JJ (25), yackedar (23), jenj770 (13), ARIZONA73 (10), rudiraven (10), Titchou (5), phil58 (4), AussieBloke (4), ladybud (4), captjane (3)

Site Wide Totals

teteri66 (1136), MSJayhawk (941), Apollo123 (857), janewhite1 (823), Titchou (773), Gabriel (743), ladybud (667), sammy64 (666), midwest1 (655), BlueSkies14 (610)



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:25 PM.



Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.com™
Copyright and Terms of Use © 1998-2014 HealthBoards.comô All rights reserved.
Do not copy or redistribute in any form!