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Old 08-24-2007, 07:04 PM   #1
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Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

I am now convinced that the theory that high cholesterol causes heart disease has been created by the drug companies and the American Heart Association to sell cholesterol lowering drugs. And angiograms, angioplasty, and bypass surgery offer no advantage at all to the great majority of heart patients but they do allow surgeons, hospitals, and all sorts of other players to make billions at the expense of the patients. Read Heart Frauds by Charles McGee and Why Animals Don't Get Heart Attacks by Matthias Rath and you will see why. They are both MDs and they both say that your body uses cholesterol, calcium and other blood fats to repair the lesions in your arteries which happen when you don't get enough vitamins, C, B vitamins, E. The first time I checked my cholesterol in 1983 it was 305 and now it is about 283 to 300. The doctors wanted to put me on statins and they had me do a heart scan and carotid ultra sound during the last year and both showed that I had zero plaque. My blood pressure has always been around 110-120 over 65-70. The high cholesterol did not cause any plaque in my arteries because I have been taking vitamins since the early1980s. Here are two intriguing questions: why does high cholesterol causes plaque when low cholesterol doesn't according to the medical experts? And since arterial plaque is mostly calcium and cholesterol, why all the fuss about lowering blood cholesterol and not the calcium level in your blood? They are both components of arterial plaque. Maybe they don't have a drug that can lower calcium but they are making their money on statins. Just follow the money trail to find the answer. Look at all those statins TV commercials. They are making billions. Ask your doctor to give you the studies and evidence that show that high cholesterol cause heart disease.

Last edited by aamsaams1; 08-25-2007 at 12:29 PM.

 
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Old 08-25-2007, 12:28 AM   #2
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

Yes... it seems to be a decision between two evils... I'm hoping niacin plays a good non-partisain role...

 
Old 08-25-2007, 07:48 AM   #3
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

I quite agree with you aamsaams1. I was frightened half to death by my doctor who said if I didn´t start taking statins, it would just be a matter of time before I had a heart attack. I took them for a couple of years, but then after reading a lot of reports and listening to peoples experiences with them I decided to stop. I feel so much better now. I then started to go away from a low fat diet and started to eat more animal fat and hey presto my HDL went up. I think it is frightening how we are constantly being lied to by the drug and food industry and how they cook their books for more profit. The rubbish that the food industry produce is what gets us ill like hydrogenetic vegetable oils trans fats etc, margarines and yoghurts that have additives that they claim we have to eat not to suffer heart desease . My feelings are, and a lot of others, is that animal fat is not what gives us heart failure, it is the above rubbish that is the real cause.

 
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:36 AM   #4
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

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I quite agree with you aamsaams1. I was frightened half to death by my doctor who said if I didn´t start taking statins, it would just be a matter of time before I had a heart attack. I took them for a couple of years, but then after reading a lot of reports and listening to peoples experiences with them I decided to stop. I feel so much better now. I then started to go away from a low fat diet and started to eat more animal fat and hey presto my HDL went up. I think it is frightening how we are constantly being lied to by the drug and food industry and how they cook their books for more profit. The rubbish that the food industry produce is what gets us ill like hydrogenetic vegetable oils trans fats etc, margarines and yoghurts that have additives that they claim we have to eat not to suffer heart desease . My feelings are, and a lot of others, is that animal fat is not what gives us heart failure, it is the above rubbish that is the real cause.
My doctor tried to scare me too by telling me that the high cholesterol was going to kill me. Maybe the drug companies train the doctors to say that. The junk food we eat contains no vitamins or minerals which your body uses to keep the arteries healthy. Plus they contain all kinds of substances you mentioned that are harmful. I think the most important thing people can do is to take vitamins and minerals because even if you eat organic food you won't even get the RDA of vitamins and minerals. The soil the food is being grown on is not that good anymore. Even if you take all these green superfoods that cost a lot, you hardly get any vitamins or minerals out of them.

Last edited by aamsaams1; 08-25-2007 at 08:45 AM.

 
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Old 08-25-2007, 11:34 AM   #5
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

The link between high cholesterol and heart disease was established by scientific studies long before statins were invented.

While I agree that drug companies are in it for the money, and that many doctors are too quick to prescribe statins, to suggest that all doctors who do angioplasties do it just for the money, or that statins are not effective, and that we can all just go through life eating all the fatty meat, cheese and butter we want is ridiculous.

Most of my ancestors lived well into their 70s, 80s, or even 90s eating a high fat diet. But they also worked very hard on the farm. I don't.

The causes of heart disease are multi-factorial...genetics, diet, exercise (or the lack thereof), cholesterol, blood pressure, stress, and many other factors are involved.

My doctor was conservative...he didn't prescribe statins because my LDL and total was only what was then considered borderline high. I had a 99% blockage in my LAD as my 54th birthday present. I have a stent. I'm 100% positive it saved my life. I'll never know if having taken statins earlier would have prevented it, but I assure you I'm not going to experiment to see what would happen if I stopped taking statins now.

The nay-sayers and drug company conspiracy theorists can put their head in the sand if they want, but let's hope they are under 40, have good genes, are of normal weight, eat a healthy diet with virtually no processed food, exercise regularly, don't smoke, and live a stress free life.

There is so much scientific research over so many years in so many places around the world that prove the link between cholesterol and heart disease (I said link, not cause; no one really knows the cause except that it is multi-factored) that the rest of us are likely best served by listening to that evidence.

 
Old 08-25-2007, 12:20 PM   #6
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

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The link between high cholesterol and heart disease was established by scientific studies long before statins were invented.

While I agree that drug companies are in it for the money, and that many doctors are too quick to prescribe statins, to suggest that all doctors who do angioplasties do it just for the money, or that statins are not effective, and that we can all just go through life eating all the fatty meat, cheese and butter we want is ridiculous.

Most of my ancestors lived well into their 70s, 80s, or even 90s eating a high fat diet. But they also worked very hard on the farm. I don't.

The causes of heart disease are multi-factorial...genetics, diet, exercise (or the lack thereof), cholesterol, blood pressure, stress, and many other factors are involved.

My doctor was conservative...he didn't prescribe statins because my LDL and total was only what was then considered borderline high. I had a 99% blockage in my LAD as my 54th birthday present. I have a stent. I'm 100% positive it saved my life. I'll never know if having taken statins earlier would have prevented it, but I assure you I'm not going to experiment to see what would happen if I stopped taking statins now.

The nay-sayers and drug company conspiracy theorists can put their head in the sand if they want, but let's hope they are under 40, have good genes, are of normal weight, eat a healthy diet with virtually no processed food, exercise regularly, don't smoke, and live a stress free life.

There is so much scientific research over so many years in so many places around the world that prove the link between cholesterol and heart disease (I said link, not cause; no one really knows the cause except that it is multi-factored) that the rest of us are likely best served by listening to that evidence.
You are right that there is a link between cholesterol and heart disease just like there is a link between calcium and heart disease since they are both components of arterial plaque. Why then is everybody worried about cholesterol and not calcium? Your arteries contain collagen which keeps them elastic. Vitamin C is needed to make calcium. The other vitamins, proteins, minerals, all play a role in keeping your arteries healthy. When you don't get enough vitamins, the arteries crack, they get lesions because they lose elasticity and strength. Your body then increases the production of cholesterol which is used together with calcium to seal the arteries or else they would leak. As long as the arteries are weak, they keep sending a stress signal to make more cholesterol and that's how you get a plaque buildup. Dr Rath's and McGee books lists all kind of studies that show that vitamin C and other vitamins reverse heart disease. Dr Rath has a lot of patients whose cholesterol went down when they went on his vitamin program because the arteries got healthy and stopped sending a stress signal to make more cholesterol. And he says that for those who have a high cholesterol like myself because of heredity, it's not a problem as long as the arteries are healthy (strong and elastic). It's a very simple explanation that you will never find in the medical books. You said your cholesterol was not high and still got a 99% blockage. Had you been taking high dosage vitamins? I was and have zero plaque with perfect blood pressure after more than 25 years of high cholesterol. Your ancestors were probably eating much better food that had a lot more vitamins than the food we eat today. Exercise had little to do with it.

Last edited by aamsaams1; 08-26-2007 at 11:40 AM.

 
Old 08-25-2007, 06:55 PM   #7
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Connie122516 View Post
.... There is so much scientific research over so many years in so many places around the world that prove the link between cholesterol and heart disease (I said link, not cause; no one really knows the cause except that it is multi-factored) that the rest of us are likely best served by listening to that evidence.
No one questions the fact that there is a statistical association between heart disease and high cholesterol levels. It has been convincingly demonstrated through voluminous research. But so what if there is a link here? Taking statins only makes sense if cholesterol actually causes heart disease. And there is no proof that this is the case. People who take statins hope that that there is a causal relationship here and that taking a statin reduces their risk. But for most of us, there is no evidence that this is so.

By way of analogy, there is a strong link between skid marks and motor accidents. At most accident scenes, you will find skid marks. But there is no causal relationship here. Skid marks don't cause accidents. And removing the breaks from cars to reduce the incidence of skid marks would not be useful . In the same way, high cholesterol is a well known marker for heart disease. But stopping the body from producing this essential substance does more harm than good.

Doctors are generally sincere in their attempts to help patients. But they too are victims of merciless mis-information on the topic and a misguided code of practice. There is also no compelling evidence that saturated fat raises cholesterol, let alone heart disease. Which is why I eat lots of fat. It is my biggest source of calories (about 65%). And I think it is a great pity that so many people deny themselves this important nutrient.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark1e; 08-25-2007 at 07:03 PM.

 
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Old 08-26-2007, 07:08 AM   #8
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

I just wanted to mention that at least 30% of patients that suffer fatal heart attacks have normal or below normal cholesterol levels. On the other hand, some people with very high cholesterol levels live to a very old age. Some countries' diets are high in saturated fats (France is a good example), yet people there have better cholesterol levels and a lower percentage of heart attacks, compared to the United States. Go figure. I think that whether or not a person gets heart disease depends on MANY other factors. Cholesterol is just one of many health factors that contribute to heart disease.

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Old 08-26-2007, 07:11 AM   #9
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

How much vitamin C would you say would be required to help stop someone from getting heart disease or getting worse then they already are? I read this in a few places but people here dismiss this vitamin C theory most of the time.

 
Old 08-26-2007, 09:15 AM   #10
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

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How much vitamin C would you say would be required to help stop someone from getting heart disease or getting worse then they already are? I read this in a few places but people here dismiss this vitamin C theory most of the time.
Dr Rath says in his book that you should take 600 to 3000 mg of vitamin C. 600 mg would be the minimum if you don't have heart disease and people who have advanced heart disease should take up to 3000 mg. The other vitamins are also important. He gives a range for B vitamins too: B1, B2, and B6 5-40 mg, B3 and B5 40-200 mg. I just take 10 mg or 50 mg of a B complex . He says to take 100-500 mg of L-Proline and L-lysene. The vitamin C, L-Proline and Lysine and the B vitamins are the most important. But it's good to take Vitamin E, beta-carotene and minerals too.

Last edited by aamsaams1; 08-26-2007 at 09:16 AM.

 
Old 08-26-2007, 05:46 PM   #11
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

It all sounds great BUT! this is the opinion of one man and his book.
I tend to steer and listen to the professionals which have been doing research on the relation of cholesterol to heart disease. There have been numerous studies showing the trend. I'm not ready and willing to follow one man's idea.

 
Old 08-26-2007, 06:26 PM   #12
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

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It all sounds great BUT! this is the opinion of one man and his book.
I tend to steer and listen to the professionals which have been doing research on the relation of cholesterol to heart disease. There have been numerous studies showing the trend. I'm not ready and willing to follow one man's idea.
I quoted two books who quote a lot of studies that prove what they say. Plus Dr Rath continued the work of Linus Pauling who has many followers who have also written books and quote studies. You can check out their books and the reviews that they got. So far, I got the same results they talk about in their books. Jack LaLanne takes 40 different supplements and we all wish we can get to be 90 and be in the same shape that he is. And if you look at the other end of the spectrum, we got so many people in need of health care that it threatens our economy. $100,000 for a heart bypass, $60,000 for a gastric bypass, $25,000 for a lapband not to mention all the medications for diabetes, cholesterol, high blood pressure that people take. What the drug companies and modern medicine offers can be helpful but most of the time is not that great and very very expensive.

Last edited by aamsaams1; 08-26-2007 at 06:32 PM.

 
Old 08-26-2007, 11:33 PM   #13
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

aamsaams1,

You seem to be implying that because doctors and pharmacists and drug companies are making lots of money, therefore they are to be suspected in their motives. I might point out the the writers of these books that you mention are also making lots of money. Lots of it. By selling lots of books. So why is the making of money by doctors and pharmacists and drug companies a bad thing, but the making of money by writers of your favorite books ok? And it's ok for the makers of vitamins and minerals and other supplements to make money? Lots of money. By selling their wares to people who read the books by authors such as the ones you mention.

I am inclined to agree with flowergirl2day ("I think that whether or not a person gets heart disease depends on MANY other factors") and others who say that the issue of cardiovascular health is a complex issue. We in the western world like to look at places in the world where people seem to be living rather healthy lives, and see if we can distill something of their lives into a package: drink red wine like the French. Oh, better -- let's manufacture one chemical out of the red wine and sell it as a supplement. Oh look -- the Japanese live long lives by eating a few veggies. Let's distill the vitamins and minerals out of the veggies and sell them as supplements.

We are not so good at looking at the whole lifestyle of these populations. We overlook the fact that many of these populations that seem to produce long-living and long-healthy people are societies where there is a great deal of daily physical activity, where there is a support network from the entire village, where there is time to pause and enjoy meals and friends over a long meal, where meals are made up of foods that are whole and lovingly (not mass-) produced.

None of these aspects of the societies that we "borrow" from are included in our attempts to find the magic pill or combination of pills. I am not against taking supplements. I take a handful myself. I just don't believe that they are "the" solution.

--Rheanna

 
Old 08-27-2007, 04:31 AM   #14
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

When it comes to preventative treatment against heart disease for people without any known heartdisease are statins in most cases doubtful. There is no controlled scientific evidence that that shows that women have any particular use of statins in preventative cases apart from possibly someone with diabetes.Most women have a cholesterol of 250. For someone who does not smoke with normal bloodpressure is the 10 year risk prognosis to die of heart disease 2 procent. We all need cholesterol to survive and to suggest that it is something bad is completly wrong. Low cholesterol has been linked with depression and strokes. High cholesterol in older people has led to a longer life.There are many factors that causes heart disease. Stress is a big reason. We should all keep away from fast carbrohydrates, smoking and junk food that contain unmentionable additives, sugars, transfats etc and stick to a more natural diet of fresh meat, fish and vegetables. There is nothing wrong with animal fat.

 
Old 08-27-2007, 06:15 AM   #15
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Re: Not Worried About My High Cholesterol

I wonder what the average cholesterol is in the french population.
Their diet is high in fat, they drink wine and smoke but yet, they live longer and healthier.

 
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