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Old 09-01-2002, 11:22 AM   #1
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Post Pantethine for blood-lipid abnormalities

As I have previously stated several times on this message board, there are alternatives out there for correcting blood-lipid abnormalities which you can pursue before rushing right out to the nearest pharmacy clutching a prescription for a statin drug. One such nutrient which has shown some rather promising results is pantethine. You can research it yourself on the internet, and you will see that studies have thus far demonstrated some favorable results. In fact, in his book "Dr. Atkins' Vita-Nutrient Solution", Atkins states the following concerning the use of pantethine in the treatment of cardiovascular disease:

"The escalation of our two most dangerous blood fats, low-density lipoprotein and triglycerides, stops dead in its tracks when confronted by pantethine. In one published account that's typical of the results I and dozens of other physicians achieve, a daily 900mg dose of pantethine led to a 32 percent drop in triglycerides, a 19 percent drop in total cholesterol, and a 21 percent drop in LDL. At the same time, the good cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein (HDL), rose by 23 percent.

Without even trying, I found more than a half dozen similar accounts in the medical literature. All of them documented dramatic improvements in supplement takers' blood fats, even when the lipid abnormality was due to other illnesses. Not a single paper failed to show reductions, and not a single paper reported side effects. Compare that to the well-established life-shortening consequences of most cholesterol-lowering drugs. Statin drugs create a shortage of the vital heart nutrient coenzyme Q-10, and all the other drugs were associated with death rates from noncardiac causes that were higher than the control subjects. Pantethine outperforms these two-edged swords in every way.

Ironically, pantethine's effectiveness at cholesterol lowering has helped cause considerable incredulity among my patients as I tell them, with the confidence built on over twenty thousand cases, that they can eat steak, eggs, and butter and, as long as they take their pantethine and other nutrients and stay away from carbohydrates, their lipid profile, especially LDL and triglycerides, will improve dramatically. But those happy results take place over 90 percent of the time.

Pantethine protects the heart and arteries in other ways. It encourages the production of enzymes that help break down blood fats and contributes to vitamin E's action against cholesterol buildup. Pantethine is one of the few nutrients that increases the amount of clot-busting omega-3 fatty acids and reduces clot-promoting fats in cell membranes. By generating more coenzyme A, it enhances metabolism in the heart muscle, strengthens the force of its contractions, and slows the rate at which it beats. It can also improve a certain form of dilated cardiomyopathy and ease angina pectoris. In short, pantethine helps the heart in so many different ways that no heart patient should be without it."
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Old 09-01-2002, 06:32 PM   #2
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None of those claims has been documented by reliable studies from the medical community.It is based on patient comments and slanted studies.
Here is the problem with this alternative medicine claims.They are unwilling to submit their products to the same studies or scrutiny that the prescription medications are subjected to.Also,if the reported advances were actually based on scientific fact with studies to back them up,then there would be alot more hoopla on the discovery.There is not at this time.The only thing we see is some starts of studies being conducted to back up these claims.
I find it ironic that people are so willing to criticize the legitimate studies on these prescription drugs but,will put absolute faith in something that has nothing but patient comments to back it up.It may help some patients,but,prove it.prove it is not a placebo bounce that makes them feel better.Show it with hard data.
As I said before,show me patient results from people who have documented CAD and who have shown a reduction in their blockages by using this therapy.The only way to show it as fact is through an angiogram.
Remember that there is just as much danger if not more to using this alternative stuff as there is using the prescription medication.The active ingredient in the alternative medications is the same as in the prescription medications.It is just in a natural form.Or it is processed with no guidelines or limits.

 
Old 09-01-2002, 10:23 PM   #3
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Gooba, it is obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about. The effect of pantethine on blood-lipids has been backed up by numerous scientific studies and has been researched extensively in Europe. In fact, dozens of solid medical studies from Europe and Japan attest to its efficacy and safety. There is documented medical evidence that pantethine increases HDL, lowers LDL and triglycerides, increases Apo A-1 and Apo A-2, accelerates activity of lipid metabolizing enzymes in the arterial wall, and accelerates beta-oxidation of fatty acids in the liver and arterial wall. So this is not patient heresy or the results of some "slanted" study, as you so sarcastically put it.

Evidently, you are very heavily biased in favor of whatever mainstream medicine preaches to you, regardless of the fact that they have ultimately been proven wrong in the past and have subsequently reversed themselves many times before, and will continue to do so in the future. And you seem to have conveniently ignored the fact that Robert Atkins, a renowned cardiologist for over 40 years, has documented evidence as to the effectiveness of pantethine on many of his own patients.

You talk about the lack of medical "hoopla" over any alternative treatments. Well, why should there be any, being that statin drugs are such a huge profit maker, literally generating billions of dollars in sales each and every year? Besides, mainstream medicine, as usual, has its head buried deeply in the sand, and is stubbornly resistant to any form of alternative treatment that may rock the boat of the giant drug companies. My God, how naive can you be?

You have also implied that there is a danger in this "alternative stuff" that I have just posted. Well, once again you have demonstrated a total lack of knowledge and understanding of precisely what I am discussing here. You stated that the active ingredient in this "stuff" is the same as in prescription medications. Well, nothing can be further from the truth. In fact, if you bothered to read my post and listened to what I advised viewers to do, you would have performed a search of pantethine online and discovered exactly what it is. It is a derivative of pantothentic acid, a B vitamin! So don't ever feed me or the viewers that garbage about it being the same ingredient that is present in prescription medications.

Finally, I would just like to make it clear that just because you evidently feel that your particular situation is hopeless, and that you are unwilling to accept that there are alternative treatments available that can help even yourself, that does not mean that other people visiting this message board and exploring alternative treatments cannot benefit from them.
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Old 09-02-2002, 01:26 AM   #4
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You know,maybe you are right.Maybe I do not know what I am talking about.So,please enlighten me.SHow me the studies.I did a search and guess what,the majority of the hits were from sites selling the products.
I looked in the NIH,JAMA,FDA to see what was there and did not see anything.Why is that?
Maybe you are also right about my being biased about mainstream medicine.Let me see,I have a couple of heart attacks,I am alot better due to what the mainstream Doctors preached to me.My wife gets cancer,they do experimental things to her as a last resort and she is now cancer free,due to what the mainstream Doctors preached.Yeah,I am biased.I look at alternatives to help,but my main priority is the treatments that those Doctors approve of.
You are correct that Dr Atkins is a cardiologist and has helped some people.What he has not done is proven his claims through an approved study.Noe has he shown any proof that I saw.For a cardiologist who has treated all of those patients,he surely has documentation on patients with CAD and their heart conditions through cardiac catherizations.What was the documented results of these patients after 6 months,1 year,2 years? How much was their arterial occlusions reduced? What results did he achieve after angioplasty or stent proceedures on preventing restenosis?What results did he achieve with his treatments for people who have CHF? How much did their ejection fractions improve? All of this is conveniently absent in the research material.
You say that I am naive.Maybe I am.I am naive to the fact that ther are millions of people who have CAD in this country,and a few million of us who have survived heart attacks,who would jump at the chance to try something that shows it works.The profits of drug companies do not matter.If it works as claimed,it would be all over the news.It is not.
Here is my lack of understanfing on this alternative stuff.I will clarify that I was not talking specifically about pantethine.I was talking about alternative medicine in general.Red yeast rice is a prime example.It contains a naturally occuring statin.There are numerous naturally occuring herbs,roots,etc that have medicinal properties.Take apsirin as another example.Do I get it from the willow bark or do I get the pill.This is true for alot of the alternative treatments.
My alternative medicine book was printed in 1929.
Let us get back to this pantethine. You are right,it is a derivative of pantothentic acid, a B vitamin.Now finish it.According to the Gale Encyclopedia of Alternative Medicine;
Panthenol is a derivative of pantothenic acid frequently an ingredient of shampoos and other hair care products.

Now,as for my situation.It is far from hopeless.I do accept alternative treatments when it works with what my Dr recommends.What I have a problem with is how I see the pushing of Atkins products.Most of your quotes can be read on Atkins site.What I find insulting is this ad.

ATKINS MEGA PANTETHINE
Pantethine, the active form of pantothenic acid (vitamin B-5), is one of the most prescribed Vita-Nutrient formulas at The Atkins Center, and we consider this mega-version to represent a technological breakthrough. From supporting healthy cholesterol levels to increasing health promoting omega-3 fats in the body to its powerful anti-inflammatory effects, Pantethine is so versatile that it is a key ingredient in many of our other Vita-Nutrient formulas (Heart Care, Cholesterol, Allergy, and Cold & Flu, among them).

While the Atkins Center has used a tablet-based pantethine product in the past, which contained 150 mg of pantethine, Atkins Nutritionals has worked closely with its manufacturing sources to develop this new softgel therapy with 450 mg of pure pantethine. For people who swear by this vita-nutrient, or those interested in adding pantethine to their vita-nutrient regimen, this is the best and most potent product available on the market.

Look at the list of ailments it is supposed to help.
I know,I am naive.It is truly the wonder vitamin.Lower your cholesterol,help your heart,cure your allergies as well as the cold and flu,and help keep your hair healthy and soft and shiny all at the same time.Stop the presses.The drug companies are going to be bankrupt now that this is on the market.


 
Old 09-06-2002, 09:38 PM   #5
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Look, the bottom line is simply this: Pantethine has been proven to be safe, free of side effects, or any other adverse reactions. A number of studies have supported its effectiveness in reducing serum blood lipid levels. My original posting was aimed at those individuals who were seeking alternative treatments to drug therapy, or who simply wanted to take advantage of a supplement which may improve their overall blood lipid profile. It is not my intention to convert the naysayers. Pantethine is readily available, and anyone wishing to try it has absolutely nothing to lose. If it works, great! If not, then you have lost nothing, and are certainly no worse off than you were before. It's like the old saying goes, "nothing ventured, nothing gained."
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