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Old 12-01-2010, 09:00 AM   #1
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Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

Hi. My mum has high cholesterol: 7.4. She only found out a couple of weeks ago and refused to go on Statins due to the side-effects such as muscle wasting. Last week she had a heart attack due to the narrowing of one of her arteries in 2 places. She had 2 stents put in and suffered no damage to her heart -- it was fortunately only mild and caught very quickly.

Of course, she has now been prescribed a cocktail of drugs by her Cardiologist. The most worrying for us at the moment is Atorvastatin/Lipitor at 80mg.

In researching I have read many articles noting that all Statins also inhibit the liver from creating CoQ10, and that it is highly likely to be behind many of the negative side-effects of the Statins.

So my questions are:

Does anyone with more experience with Statins know if 80mg (the highest they will prescribe apparently) is too high for 7.4 cholesterol? Do the doses generally come down over time?

Is lowering the cholesterol with Statins and then lowering the dosage with a view to eliminating them a realistic plan or will it just shoot back up?

Does anyone have any experience with taking supplements of CoQ10 and Statins? Does it help avoid the side-effects? Is 400mg twice a day going to be enough to counteract the Statins' CoQ10 inhibition?

Please answer. The doctors don't even seem to want to discuss it.

 
Old 12-01-2010, 12:03 PM   #2
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Re: Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

Hi Justdavid and welcome to the board.

Dosage of Lipitor:

Statins are prescribed to target LDL cholesterol (known as the bad cholesterol), not the Total Cholesterol figure that you have quoted. So you need to know your mum's LDL cholesterol level. The figures below provide a guide as to the expected LDL reduction that can be expected.

A TC figure of 7.4 mmol/L is 50% above the current UK recommended level for a person without any other underlying health conditions.

Doctors' in the UK aim their patient to achieve and maintain an LDL level of no greater than 1.8mmol/L (70mg/dl), so with the figures below you should be able to determine if the 80mg dosage is appropriate.

Lipitor 20mg 42% to 46%
Lipitor 40mg 47% to 51%
Lipitor 80mg 46% to 54%

On the question of CoQ10.
You are correct in assuming that it should be taken along with a statin for the reason that you stated. I would recommend that you do a search on this board for CoQ10, as there are numerous threads providing guidance into the types of CoQ10 product to use. 200-400mg of CoQ10 daily should be sufficient, but it must be a Japanese Kaneka Ubiquinone or preferably take the pure Kaneka Ubiquinol type of Q10. (100mg of this should be sufficient.)

Don't use the Holland and B?????? or Boots versions.


Yack.

Last edited by yackedar; 12-01-2010 at 12:22 PM.

 
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:32 PM   #3
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Re: Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to make sure we can get all the cholesterol details of her last test and from here on out. They seem reluctant to actually give this information up? It was like getting blood from a stone to even get the total cholesterol number. She hasn't had any follow-up get with her Cardiologist or Cardiac rehab though yet (only home as of Friday) so hopefully they will be a bit more open than the GP.

Can you or anyone else recommend the best priced place to buy Kaneka CoQ10 in the UK? It's always hard to be sure you're not getting ripped off with health products online.

 
Old 12-01-2010, 02:18 PM   #4
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Re: Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

Rules of this board do not allow us to divulge site names.

I import ours from the States as Kaneka CoQ10 in Europe is very expensive.
Look for the Manufacturer 'Healthy Origins' who do both types of CoQ10 in capsule form. From the site I use, 180 x 100mg of Kaneka Ubiquinone is about $28-29. 180 x 100mg of Kaneka Ubiquinol is virtually double that price.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Yack.

 
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:15 AM   #5
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Re: Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

Thanks for the help again.

Her LDL was 5.9 (288.6?), which is worrying.

We've decided to go with 100mg Ubiquinol at first. Although we're checking that that it is ok with her other meds as there seems to be the possibility of them counter-acting some blood thinners? Even still if she has to be on Statins we want to do everything possible to stop possible side-effects affecting her quality of life.

Out of interest, is such a high LDL level possible to reduce with diet and supplements? Our GP said it might be genetic and therefore Statins would be the only solution.

 
Old 12-02-2010, 08:28 AM   #6
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Re: Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justdavid View Post
Out of interest, is such a high LDL level possible to reduce with diet and supplements?
LDL tends to be raised by trans-fats from hydrogenated oils and saturated fat, while unsaturated (non-hydrogenated) fats tend to lower it. So modifying the types of fat intake (favoring the fat from fish and plant sources other than coconut and palm oil instead of processed hydrogenated oils and red meat and dairy products) may help, although it may not be sufficient by itself to bring LDL down into the lower risk range.

Loss of body fat generally helps lower LDL and triglycerides, while raising HDL. If her waistline at the navel is greater than half her height, she may have a significant amount of excess body fat to lose. It is best done with a combination of moderate calorie restriction and exercise, where the exercise can help preserve muscle while losing fat (and exercise can help raise HDL).

Last edited by tjlhb; 12-02-2010 at 08:29 AM.

 
Old 12-02-2010, 09:38 AM   #7
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Re: Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjlhb View Post
LDL tends to be raised by trans-fats from hydrogenated oils and saturated fat, while unsaturated (non-hydrogenated) fats tend to lower it. So modifying the types of fat intake (favoring the fat from fish and plant sources other than coconut and palm oil instead of processed hydrogenated oils and red meat and dairy products) may help, although it may not be sufficient by itself to bring LDL down into the lower risk range.

Loss of body fat generally helps lower LDL and triglycerides, while raising HDL. If her waistline at the navel is greater than half her height, she may have a significant amount of excess body fat to lose. It is best done with a combination of moderate calorie restriction and exercise, where the exercise can help preserve muscle while losing fat (and exercise can help raise HDL).
She already has an excellent diet. Not much red meat and when she does it's always lean. Plenty of oily fish -- although the amount is going up now. I have some specific dietary questions I will probably ask in another thread though.

She is at the bottom end of her ideal weight at 5'3" and 8 stone, but has been advised to gain 2 - 3 pounds. She has always been active, although has been ill for the last few years with a minor spine problem so any vigorous activity has been lessened.

Her HDL is currently 1.0 (39?)

Last edited by justdavid; 12-02-2010 at 09:38 AM.

 
Old 12-02-2010, 12:50 PM   #8
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Re: Statin and CoQ10 questions...?

"Her LDL was 5.9 (288.6?)"

Now I can see why she was placed on 80mg Lipitor. I always recommend Red Yeast Rice in preference to any type of Statin, whether it be oil or water based. However, no amount of RYR would help your mums figures.

No amount of exercise will significantly alter an inherited gene defect, but it should still raise her HDL. Also of help to raise her HDL would be Omega 3 EPA supplements which will also reduce her Trigs', but don't expect beneficial effects overnight. (Three months minimum.) She will need Omega 3 capsules that provide at least 1 gram of EPA and about 500-600mg of DHA. EPA will also help reduce inflammation of the arteries.
Do not use the cheap Omega 3 EPA/DHA capsules that also incorporate Omega 6 and/or 9 which are of no benefit to people with this condition.

As Ubiquinol is the end product following conversion in the body of Ubiquinone, you have made the right choice. As a matter of interest, the former dose for dose is reportedly six times stronger than the latter. One word of warning, if your mum also has high blood pressure and is taking drugs for this condition, CoQ10 also lowers BP, so monitor closely. No interactions with BP medication.

Blood Thinners:
Your mum has probably been placed on 75mg Aspirin and 75mg Plavix (clopidogrel). Whether she had Bare Metal stents (BMS) or Drug Eluting stent (DES) she should be on the Plavix for twelve months minimum and then taper the dosage down to nothing at fifteen months........That's what I did. Mentally, I felt much better doing so.

Interactions between Coq10 and Plavix....None, as the body produces CoQ10 naturally, but tapers off doing so from our mid thirties.
So, no worries.

Your mum will have 'furring' of her arteries. This is basically oxidized LDL which has attached itself to parts of the arteries which have become damaged by circulating toxins, chemicals and metal particles.
Oxidized LDL needs to be addressed. Statins including Lipitor not only reduce LDL but tend to stabilise plaques. Some better than others.
However, there are a few natural products that do a better job.....Look at Cocoa and Pomegranate juice.

Yack.

Last edited by yackedar; 12-02-2010 at 01:08 PM.

 
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