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Old 10-25-2004, 10:33 AM   #1
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I Can't Wean With This????

My doc. is a mor*n if he wants to keep feeling like a zombie. Here is the proof. My measurements over the last few. I am on 100 MGS of Atenolol & 5/20 of Lotrel. I want to wean off of Atenolol altogether & get off of the Lotrel in a month or so as well. My doc. won't let me even wean. My B/P in his office last time was 120/78. I'm 34 5'11 151 & have had every blood test, heart test+ run as well. I'm starting to get frutstrated. This is my 3rd doc. in 20 months.

10/25/2004 10:16:00 AM 118 68
10/23/2004 12:06:00 PM 116 66
10/22/2004 05:37:00 PM 112 68
10/22/2004 12:30:00 PM 114 66
10/21/2004 12:30:00 PM 118 68
10/19/2004 09:30:00 AM 116 68

Last year at this time it was 127/77.

 
Old 10-25-2004, 10:40 AM   #2
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Axe,

I am sorry that you are so frustrated. Calm down and wait until that appointment that the doctor said you needed to start weaning. I was weaned off a beta blocker and it took a month. As it turned out, I had to get back on it when my pressure went all over the place. Like I have said in other posts, it now takes four different types to keep my numbers good.
You have waited this long, what is a little longer? Good luck.

 
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Old 10-25-2004, 10:53 AM   #3
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

As stated in my other posts, i was on toprol xl for about 3 or 4 yrs, i wanted off the toprol xl due to side effects. My gp would not take me off the med so i halfed the bill to 50 mgs instead of 100mgs. Everything was ok, but it still caused me problems with side effects. I abruptly stopped the toprol xl and boy was i sorry. My bp spiked to 225/110 or something like that which caused me to go to ER. My bp kinda normaled out after a couple of wks. Bharkins is correct though, bcuz now my bp is all over the place. I only take verapamil which doesn't help much. When i see my cardio next month, hopefully i will get a good bp med that i can stick with. My bp is around 140-160 ish. the bottom #s are always under 80 and pulse is under 80.

Maybe you could just half the dosage as suggested by zip or maybe you really need the med to keep you in the range you're in.

 
Old 10-25-2004, 11:05 AM   #4
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Lil's Axe,

You are on a beta blocker (atenolol), a calcium channel blocker (amlodipine/Norvasc) and an ACE Inhibitor (benazepril).

How did you get on these? Which came first? Atenolol is nasty because, well, it's a beta blocker. Lotrel is nasty because it's a combination drug. And, you really don't know which one is doing you any good. If you were on an ACEI or Norvasc first, then switched to Lotrel, that makes sense. But, to start out with Lotrel doesn't seem too wise. So, what's your history?

Pal

 
Old 10-25-2004, 11:09 AM   #5
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Jtu,

One of my brothers has been on Inderal for years. It is an old beta blocker that gives him no side effects. His doctor tried to change to a newer one and he claimed that it caused him bothersome lightheadness. Needless to say, he is back on his Inderal with his usual great numbers. He swears by the old BP medications. Just a thought to consider as I know how you have been trying so hard to find a good med. I would try it myself, but I am afraid to "monkey around" anymore with my numbers.

 
Old 10-25-2004, 11:22 AM   #6
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

You are on a beta blocker (atenolol), a calcium channel blocker (amlodipine/Norvasc) and an ACE Inhibitor (benazepril).

I know. It is way too much

How did you get on these? Which came first? Atenolol is nasty because, well, it's a beta blocker. Lotrel is nasty because it's a combination drug. And, you really don't know which one is doing you any good. If you were on an ACEI or Norvasc first, then switched to Lotrel, that makes sense. But, to start out with Lotrel doesn't seem too wise. So, what's your history?

Lotrel came 1st after I couldn't take Altace, my 1st doc. put me on Lotrel when I asked about ARB's. I was put on Atenolol by my 2nd doc., because the Toprol caused terrible side-effects as well. She said that Atenolol doesn't really cause side-effects, because it doesn't go to the brain.... that was in March. My HBP was caused by alcohol (which I have cut down 99.9%) & anxiety.

I feel that I don't truly have HBP. I was diagnosed while having a panic attack 20 months ago & can't seem to find a doc. that doesn't have the guts to just let me be & monitor it. If weaning needs to be done, so be it.

 
Old 10-25-2004, 11:26 AM   #7
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Palamedes,

I didn't ask to be on this garbage. Trust me. My B/P was 120/78 at the docs. even with white-coat last time. I asked him if I could wean at that point off of the Atenolol & he said no. That was 2 months ago. I'll wait for the appointment, but if he doesn't listen to me, I'll go to my specialist friend who will advise the doctor. He needs it, as do most of them. I want off!!!

 
Old 10-26-2004, 06:05 AM   #8
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillians Axe
My B/P was 120/78 at the docs. even with white-coat last time.
This is not very impressive white coat. 120/78 vs. 116/67? That's not going to matter. If either one was your blood pressure off meds, obvisously you wouldn't need treatment. But, you are on THREE drugs!
Quote:
Lotrel came 1st after I couldn't take Altace, my 1st doc. put me on Lotrel when I asked about ARB's. I was put on Atenolol by my 2nd doc., because the Toprol caused terrible side-effects as well. She said that Atenolol doesn't really cause side-effects, because it doesn't go to the brain.... that was in March. My HBP was caused by alcohol (which I have cut down 99.9%) & anxiety.
Altace (an ACEI) was a good start. You couldn't take it? What happened? Did you cough? Did it lower your blood pressure? If you were having side-effects from Altace, Lotrel doesn't sound like a natural progression. If Altace was lowering your blood pressure, but not enough, I could understand a switch to Lotrel.

And, I assume you must have been getting some response from Lotrel. But, it wasn't enough. So, Toprol was added. This was then switched to Atenolol because of side-effects. And, you now have good blood pressure control. Sounds reasonable.
Quote:
I feel that I don't truly have HBP. I was diagnosed while having a panic attack 20 months ago & can't seem to find a doc. that doesn't have the guts to just let me be & monitor it. If weaning needs to be done, so be it.
While you may be experiencing side effects, and, your meds should probably be changed. Quite frankly, I think you are being very naive to attribute all your hypertension to alcoholism. See http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?objectid=0D0864BA-4B41-4A21-9E4E20422944FF2E . This says that alcoholism can contribute 2-4 points on your systolic and 1-2 points on your diastolic. Unfortunately, the beta-blocker may be the one that is doing the most good for you. If you are coughing now, your best bet might be to switch the Lotrel for an ARB (Diovan, Benicar or Avapro). This would get you down to two drugs and would probably have a better side-effect profile. In your case the Norvasc (CCB) part of Lotrel may not be doing much for your BP. This is all assuming that the Altace experiment did indeed lower your BP. If it didn't, you should most likely be on a CCB/Diuretic combo (Norvasc or Cardizem + HCTZ).

Most of the combos that are marketed are very stupid mixes. It's the same thing as using a cold medicine to treat a headache. Yeah, it will work. But, all you really needed was an aspirin. Same thing, Lotrel will work on more people because, it covers two different common problems. In other words, in most people, one of the drugs is doing a lot, and the other is doing just a little. It does very well in the studies because it hits a huge target audience. Oh well, enough of my soap box.

Good luck,

Pal

 
Old 10-26-2004, 06:28 AM   #9
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillians Axe
My B/P was 120/78 at the docs. even with white-coat last time.


Palamedes-This is not very impressive white coat. 120/78 vs. 116/67? That's not going to matter. If either one was your blood pressure off meds, obvisously you wouldn't need treatment. But, you are on THREE drugs!


Originally Palamedes it was 158/80 or 160/80 at the doctor. I have learned how to relax. It isn't the meds. that are miraculously doing it. I was on the meds. with the high readings. It is call anxiety & I have been diagnosed with White-Coat. I started taking yoga+ & it did more for my B/P at the doc. then the st*pid meds.

Quote:
Lotrel came 1st after I couldn't take Altace, my 1st doc. put me on Lotrel when I asked about ARB's. I was put on Atenolol by my 2nd doc., because the Toprol caused terrible side-effects as well. She said that Atenolol doesn't really cause side-effects, because it doesn't go to the brain.... that was in March. My HBP was caused by alcohol (which I have cut down 99.9%) & anxiety.


Palamedes-Altace (an ACEI) was a good start. You couldn't take it? What happened? Did you cough? Did it lower your blood pressure? If you were having side-effects from Altace, Lotrel doesn't sound like a natural progression. If Altace was lowering your blood pressure, but not enough, I could understand a switch to Lotrel.

Sorry dude, Altace was the worst. It made my arms tingle & caused me anxiety+. It was horrible. Lotrel is a natural progression to the circular file along with the Atenolol. I don't have High Blood Pressure. I have anxiety that causes White-Coat at times. Are you a rep. for the drug companies????? If you are tell them to take a more representative sample next time on the side-effects. They have all made my lifestyle much worse over the past 20 months.

And, I assume you must have been getting some response from Lotrel. But, it wasn't enough. So, Toprol was added. This was then switched to Atenolol because of side-effects. And, you now have good blood pressure control. Sounds reasonable.

Correct. Toprol caused side-effects. Atenolol caused side-effects. They all cause side effects these stu*id beta-blockers. I asked to be put on an ARB & make lifestyle changes.

In terms of alcohol only lowering B/P 2-4 points, I say B.S. Try drinking for 10 years a 6 pack a day & having a 4 day drinking binge. I was only 32. My B/P was 190/100 during the panic attack. I guess that the drinking binge had nothing to do with my panic attack #'s????? Yeah riiiiight. Now if I have a few drinks the night before my pulse will be at least 10 points higher on average. I only drink 2-3 beers a week now total on the weekends.

You sound a lot like the 1st doctor that I had that didn't believe that drinking makes such a difference. Well it does. There is something called white-coat & measurements like 160/80, 158/80, 170/80 sure seem like white-coat.

These B/P meds. are terrible imo & you sound a lot like the 1st doc. that I ditched. I have had every test run & it all points to white-coat. Give me a day without 2mgs of xanax & a day without Atenolol & I bet you my B/P would be much higher on the day without the anxiety drug. I know my body by now. I don't believe in these B.S. studies. They say less than 10% experience side-effects. Yeah riiiiight. Everyone that I ask that takes B/P meds. experiences side-effects.

Please get your facts straight before you make assumptions.

 
Old 10-26-2004, 04:34 PM   #10
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

I don't even know where to start. I obviously must have struck some kind of nerve here. This wasn't my intent. Sorry, if I offended you. I think it was inappropriate for you to go off and create all these other threads. One of which is titled "Palamedes must be a doctor". Don't you think this is getting a little personal?

The main point I was trying to make is that you most likely will still need some medication to maintain good BP control. I don't know this for certain, though. I agree that you are way overmedicated. I even had stated that I thought your first doctor made a stupid decision to switch you from Altace to Lotrel IF you were having side effects. I'm pretty much agreeing with you. Also, since you are experiencing bothersome side-effects, you are on the wrong medication. Quality of life is very important. And, if it's not important to your doctor, you need to go doctor shopping.

And, yes, 160/80, 158/80, 170/80 do sound like classic white-coat. Just look at the pulse pressures (80, 78 and 90!!!). These are clearly readings from anxiety or stress. However, you didn't present these facts until now. In fact, a competent doctor should have noted that your diastolic was normal and suspected white coat.

Pal

 
Old 10-27-2004, 05:52 AM   #11
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

I don't even know where to start. I obviously must have struck some kind of nerve here. This wasn't my intent. Sorry, if I offended you. I think it was inappropriate for you to go off and create all these other threads. One of which is titled "Palamedes must be a doctor". Don't you think this is getting a little personal?

I apologize. You didn't have all of the facts when you posted. It was wrong on my part to single you out like that in a post. Let's all try to get good GPs, Specialists+ & help each other out. I'm sorry once again.

I don't know why he switched me from Altace to Lotrel. I think that it was because he had a bunch of free samples of Lotrel to be honest with you. 20 months later I am still on it.

Peace.

 
Old 10-27-2004, 03:07 PM   #12
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jtu91952 HB User
Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Bharkins, that's exactly what i wanted to hear. I prefer the older bp meds. They're tried and true. I know they'll have some side effects but i don't care. As long as a med doesn't heart my heart, liver or kidney, and doesn't cause me to itch or have hives im game. Just don't give me another disease on top of the ones i already have. Diabetes was the worst thing i've gotten, but that cholesterol problem is a real bear.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 09:58 AM   #13
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Hey Axe,

why don't you wean yourself off of it? Go online and check how the docs would do it and follow suit. I always say we are ultimately responsible for our own recovery no matter what. I feel your frustration and I have been there and always end up taking matters into my own hands after lengthy research..Good luck !!! Lisa

 
Old 10-28-2004, 10:54 AM   #14
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Moxie,

It is a great idea. My B/P has averaged 116/66 for months on 100 MGS of Atenolol & 5/20 of Lotrel. My weight has gone from 154-155 to 150 over the past 4 months, because the Atenolol or the Lotrel kills my stomach 2 days a week at least. I'm kind of afraid to wean a little, because I felt like junk today & my 1st measurement was 140/80 (the highest it has been in a long long time). The 3rd measurement was 122/71. I'm weaning off of the Xanax, so I think that could be a big part of why I feel so lousy.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 01:47 PM   #15
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Re: I Can't Wean With This????

Xanax?? I must have missed that post of course weaning yourself off a drug of that nature can be a tad harrowing so I would chalk that reading up to that one. Give yourself a break and take it one day at a time get off the Xanax and go from there..Good Luck to you, Lisa

 
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