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Old 10-27-2004, 10:33 AM   #1
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How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

I want to vent for a short moment. Why do docs. put patients on meds. on a 1st visit. If a patient has white coat (like myself) & has a high 1st #, then why not test again in another month with lifestyle changes??? I have no idea what my real B/P is now, because I was put on Lotrel (by my 1st doc 20 months ago) & Atenolol (by my 2nd doc. who didn't tell me about the side-effects & addictive qualities to it when you try to quit the drug). I am going to look at the studies.

 
Old 10-27-2004, 10:46 AM   #2
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Axe,

How much do meds bring blood pressure down? That is an interesting question. Some people with high numbers only need one med, while I need four meds.

 
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Old 10-27-2004, 11:50 AM   #3
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

I thought so as well. I looked for studies on the Lotrel site & looked for an Atenolol site, but there wasn't any. It really just compared the 2 drugs in Lotrel to another B/P med. It didn't have any studies for before & after taking Lotrel alone. I also 2 mgs of xanax a day. It seems to control my B/P & make it even lower than the drugs do. Try finding research on this topic.... it isn't easy.

 
Old 10-27-2004, 03:01 PM   #4
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

I was on five bp meds about 4 or 5 yrs ago. My bp was low, but i felt like death warmed over from day to day. Somedays i couldn't get out of bed with my low bp 113/60. I was definitely over-medicated. I understand why the drs prescribed so much meds though, i had just had a heart attack. it was mild, but it was my second one. When i went to ER a couple of weeks ago, they couldn't see any damage to my heart other than a murmur. Now they're concern with my liver. Could this be due to over medication? Never had a problem before.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 06:35 AM   #5
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillians Axe
...I looked for studies on the Lotrel site & looked for an Atenolol site, but there wasn't any...
Yeah, atenolol is a little tricky to find. It's an old drug that was introduced in 1976. The fda has stuff on it though. The prescribing information can be found at:

http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2003/03NOV_PI/Tenormin_Tablet_PI.pdf

I couldn't find anything requarding BP reduction in it, though.

On the subject of these studies, I always find it interesting that the placebo always seem to get some positive results.

Pal

 
Old 10-28-2004, 06:43 AM   #6
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Palamedes,

Please respond to my other post on stomach problems. It would be greatly appreciated. I would appreciate other responses as well.

 
Old 10-28-2004, 01:50 PM   #7
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Ax,
When you mention stomach problems do you mean like heartburn or is it some other kind of stomach problems.
I am curious cause I've been on atenolol for a long time and I too have stomach problems but no one has ever said it could be the atenolol.
Cass

 
Old 10-28-2004, 02:02 PM   #8
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Like gurgling in my stomach about an hour before I wake up. My stomach just feels upset.

 
Old 10-29-2004, 04:50 AM   #9
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

As a rule, the drugs that give LARGE changes in BP are:
Diuretics...results can be HUGE in the salt sensitive population
Beta Blockers...some of those suckers can knock your BP socks off and of course this class is rife with horrid side effects
ACE inhibitors...potent but less than the first two.

Very Small benefits:
Angiotensin Receptor Blockers (ARB's)...usuallly in the realm of 10 points systolic, 6 diastolic
Calcium Channel blockers...same small reduction.

ARB's were developed because everybody COUGHED from the ACE inhibitors so these work less well with less hacking.
Calcium Channel blockers were developed to treat heart failure and angina...not hypertension; same for beta-blockers. But since doctors NEVER met a high priced drug they didn't like, they get prescribed for hypertension...and headaches...and rhythm disturbances...and soon, probably for TEETHING problems

The only drugs developed SOLELY to fight hypertension were the thiazides and the ACE inhibitors (Vasotec and her hacking sisters.)

Last edited by zip2play; 10-29-2004 at 04:52 AM.

 
Old 10-29-2004, 05:38 AM   #10
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Quote:
Originally Posted by zip2play
As a rule, the drugs that give LARGE changes in BP are:
Diuretics...results can be HUGE in the salt sensitive population
But, but, but... a majority of the population has a high renin response. In a person with an overactive renin system, diuretics will actually INCREASE BP.
Quote:
Beta Blockers...some of those suckers can knock your BP socks off and of course this class is rife with horrid side effects
True, they actually antagonize the renin system as well.
Quote:
ACE inhibitors...potent but less than the first two.
Not necessarily true for everbody. In the high-renin population, these are very effective.
Quote:
Very Small benefits:
Angiotensin Receptor Blockers (ARB's)...usuallly in the realm of 10 points systolic, 6 diastolic
Calcium Channel blockers...same small reduction.
ARB's usually seem to be slightly less effective than ACE inhibitors. CCB's work very well in the same folks who are salt sensitive. They are a poor choice for the high-renin population unless this action is blocked with an ACE or ARB.
Quote:
ARB's were developed because everybody COUGHED from the ACE inhibitors so these work less well with less hacking.
Really, ARB's and ACEI were studied back in 1970's. Teprotide was the first ACEI studied. And, saralsin was the first ARB. See:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_u ids=651128&dopt=Abstract
Quote:
Calcium Channel blockers were developed to treat heart failure and angina...not hypertension; same for beta-blockers. But since doctors NEVER met a high priced drug they didn't like, they get prescribed for hypertension...and headaches...and rhythm disturbances...and soon, probably for TEETHING problems
I haven't read up on the history of CCB's. And, I don't feel like researching this morning. So, I'll take your word for it.
Quote:
The only drugs developed SOLELY to fight hypertension were the thiazides and the ACE inhibitors (Vasotec and her hacking sisters.)
And, the ARBs.

Pal

 
Old 10-29-2004, 06:17 AM   #11
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

For the beta-blockers like Atenolol & Toprol,

Then *** do docs. prescribe them to someone who is already taking a combo drug like Lotrel, who has no heart problems (2 EKGS & a chest xray in the past 20 months) & is suffering from the side-effects????

 
Old 10-29-2004, 01:31 PM   #12
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Lillian, I too was put on Toprol the first time I went to my Dr., today was my third visit and was put on xanax.Im only 34 also and Im wondering if I just try the xanax and not the Toprol if that might just do the trick of keeping my BP down.when I went to the dr today my bp was 160/92 and then 20 minutes of waiting and relaxing it went down to 126/78 Im thinking its due to anxiety.

 
Old 10-30-2004, 04:19 PM   #13
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

It sounds like anxiety. Take a 2-4 week log on the Xanax & bring it to your doctor of your reading outide of his office. If he has 1/2 of a brain he will listen.

 
Old 10-30-2004, 08:04 PM   #14
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

Thanks for the advice Lillian, he told me to take the xanax as needed when Im feeling anxious which hasnt happened yet,I dont really want to take it every day,I havent felt like Ive needed it since Ive filled the prescription,I guess Ill just wait.Im sure I will feel the need for it soon enough,like my next dr.visit.I was wondering,I know you said you take Toprol,do you ever have leg cramps with that? I have had them really bad for the last couple weeks,I asked the dr. and he said he hasnt heard of that effect from Toprol.

 
Old 11-01-2004, 06:10 AM   #15
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Re: How Much Do Meds. Bring B/P Down???

I was on Toprol for about 8 months or longer & couldn't stand the side-effects. Yes, leg cramps was one of them. It was tough to excercise. I felt cold all of the time. It is one of the betas that goes through your brain, so it affects all kinds of things with side-effects. Do the research. I didn't. I just took it as prescribed & was switched to Atenolol, which I swear is not better at all. I think that your doc. is off base, but I experienced the same things.

 
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