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Old 12-07-2004, 01:05 PM   #1
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Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

On Meds?

I am currently on 100 MGS of Atenolol & 5/20 of Lotrel. Have been on B/P meds. for 22 months, but lately my pulse rate is usually in the 50's during the day. It was in the low 60's up until a month or so ago. I'm only 34. My B/P is averaging 115/67 or so. Pulse rate has been around 52-59 during the day. I felt great yesterday, but today I feel exhausted all day. Pulse is around 57 or so. I have felt that I am over-medicated for a long time & it's tough to focus in a job that I need to focus in all of the time. The lady that went after me had a B/P of 106/56 on the Lotrel. The guy after her had 150/86. He needs to be on meds. not me. I just hate drinking caffeine & soda just to feel alive & not like a zombie. I wouldn't even care if untreated my B/P was 137-140/78. I felt much better unmedicated. Does anyone else go through this? It seems like it happens more frequently. I get good sleep. I have had 2 EKGS & a Chest Xray, full blood tests, metabolic panel, chest xray+. The old people look at me like I'm crazy when I take my B/P. At 114/68 today & a 57 pulse, no wonder why I feel like this.... what is the worst that it would be off of the meds (weaning off of the Atenolol).

 
Old 12-07-2004, 03:45 PM   #2
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

Axe, Yes, I feel lethargic and tired due to the four meds that are necessary to keep my BP at a good level. I did try to cut down on the meds and was weaned off two of them, but my pressure could not be controlled. Back I went on the four again. I really feel that I have no choice but to take the meds or chance having another stroke. You, on the other hand, have the opportunity to be weaned by your specialist friend and for the life of me, I cannot understand why you are still stressing over this. Make up your mind and take action. You have nothing to lose. If need be, you can always go back on the meds. I will say that it took eight weeks for me to be weaned off of the beta blocker, so take it slow. Best of luck.

 
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Old 12-07-2004, 03:59 PM   #3
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillians Axe
I wouldn't even care if untreated my B/P was 137-140/78.
I would give my boss's left arm to get my blood pressure average down to 137-140/78 WITH the medication! Without medication, my average BP would be somewhere around 170/115 or 0/0.

What are your plans for weaning off the meds? Have you started? If so, what type of bp readings are you getting while you are getting off the meds?

Welcome back.

 
Old 12-07-2004, 04:17 PM   #4
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

Yes, I feel lethargic also, but I am 52 and am not healthy, due to heart disease. Still I can feel the effects of the beta blockers and acei's I take, plus other heart meds, like time released nitroglycerine.

You are on some powerful medicines. I have been reading about Lotrel, on a good pharm site. I take atenolol, so I know about it. I take 50mg/day. I can't imagine taking twice that amount. It would almost stop my heart.

You are taking 3 classic, common medicines from classes of drugs that are given to people who haved survived heart attacks, and have CAD/heart disease. The medicines you take are the foundation for survival of really sick people. (CCE's, ACEI's, and BB's)

Beta blockers block receptors in the sinus nodes, which control the rate and rhythm, of your heart. This causes the force and frequency of your heart beat to decrease. Your blood circulation decreases also. Anyone taking beta blockers should get a good, regular, aerobic workout each day to stay healthy. If they don't, they will suffer the consequences, especially someone your age.

There are different types of beta blockers, old and new, but they all slow the heart rate and decrease the force of the beat. This takes a load off of a heart that has been weakened from a heart attack or heart disease. They can help prevent a 2nd or 3rd heart attack. You must realize what kind of medicine that you are taking. They were made for a crippled heart.

If I were your age, I would want to find other combinations of medicines to control my BP. I would get in shape, make sure you limit sodium, if it increases your BP. Stop any alcohol binges, quit smoking, eat right and stay slim. By changing your lifestyle, you maybe could reduce the amount and change the type of medicines that you are taking.

All 3 meds that you take have fatigue as a side effect. The CCB that you take caused fatigue in 23% of recipients, vs 11% placebo! Thats a high ratio. It also has bradycardia (pulse rate <60 bpm) as a side effect, as does the beta blocker.

If you can't change the type of medicine you take, I would talk to the doc about decreasing your dose of either of the 3 medicines, that you take. It is not hard to go from 100mg to 50mg of atenolol. You just have to do it under medical supervision (gradually). This change would probably give you more energy and close to the same average BP, with an increase in your pulse rate, especially if you changed your lifestyle a bit.

These meds are really interfering with the quality of your life. Your doctor should respond to this aspect of your treatment.

Hope this helps you a little. Wasn't trying to preach.

Jack

 
Old 12-08-2004, 06:02 AM   #5
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

Thank You! I really appreciate all of the input. I wanted my doc. to give his support for the wean, but it didn't happen. Yesterday, I just felt like I was in Ozone #9. I am not sick. I don't get it. They give beta-blockers to a lot of patients still as a 1st or 2nd resort. It still happens. I saw an old lady yesterday with a B/P that was around 106/48 or so. My 2 EKG's were fine & so was my chest xray. My blood tests & metabolic panel were fine as well. The only thing that was a little high was my glucose at 103 & I worry that the beta blocker combined with the Lotrel will increase that. I will call my doctor friend. Want to see what kind of insurance he takes.

It just seems like the longer that I am on these meds., there are more good days mixed with bad. Yesterday, I felt out of it, dizzy & lethargic. Nothing really helped that much. Today, so far so good, but we'll see. I told my regular GP about my side-effects, but he was wishy-washy about taking me off of the meds.

I was born with a congenital defect of 2 valves instead of 3, but it has never effected me before. The doctors know this & I have gone to the cardiologist who said I should live until 90 if I stop smoking.

I don't binge drink anymore & haven't in a long long long time. I am 5' 11" 150, so sodium+ isn't my problem. I still smoke, but smoking is like caffeine in that it gives a short-term elevation in B/P. I know that I need to quit.

Why am I on so much? I don't know. Doctors cover there a**? My GP asked me last time why I am on these meds. & when I was put on them. After 5 visits, I would think that would be one of the 1st questions that he would have asked.

We'll see how today goes.

What were your signs that you had heart disease Jack?

 
Old 12-08-2004, 06:05 AM   #6
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

Anyone taking beta blockers should get a good, regular, aerobic workout each day to stay healthy. If they don't, they will suffer the consequences, especially someone your age.

Please explain about the consequences. Are your referring to the massive list of side-effects.

 
Old 12-08-2004, 07:52 AM   #7
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

"Anyone taking beta blockers should get a good, regular, aerobic workout each day to stay healthy. If they don't, they will suffer the consequences, especially someone your age."


I'm curious about that statement as well. I've been on Toprol (in the process of stopping, if I can find a doc that will cooperate with me!!!) for about 2 1/2 years and I've never been able to do an aerobic workout everyday. I'm only 31 and I was really active prior to the Toprol, but I just can't find the energy to work out and if I do somehow find enough energy, I'm winded within 5 minutes of starting!! I can't win!!!

DAnn

 
Old 12-08-2004, 08:04 AM   #8
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

Axe
the first sign of heart disease for me was chest pain, or angina. It started years before I had a heart attack. My cardiologist didn't believe it was chest pain from heart disease. He had statistics backing him up, on it not being heart disease. Angina almost always comes on after exertion, and is called "stable angina". I had the type of angina that occured at rest, which is called "unstable angina". It is kind of rare. I had stress test done and passed with flying colors.

Beta blockers make you lazy, or lethargic by design. They reduce your blood circulation rate (because they reduce the force and frequency of your heart beat). This is bad for your body to not exercise in response to this, especially when someone starts BB's as young as you. Poor circulation can lead to other problems, especially in your extremities. Arterial blockages can occur in tiny arteries, due to poor circulation. Nerves in our extremities can become effected, and start malfunctioning. I have peripheral neuropathy in my arms and legs, which is the strangest ailment one can imagine. I have no doubt that a combination of medicines caused this in me. Either directly, or indirectly. Poor circulation can lead to edema, fluid on the lungs (pulmonary edema), dizziness, lightheadedness, and strokes.

BB's are like a govenor on the heart. They want let it reach top speed. When I was young, the saying was-never buy a car from an old person, because it had never had the "soot" blowed out of it, lol, and would break down under normal driving conditions.

When folks have a heart attack and/or coronary artery bypass surgery (CABG), the first thing that happens as soon as they are able (a month to 6 weeks later), they start cardiac rehabilitation, which is aerobic exercise. The program last ~12 weeks. It helps to restore and improve heart function. They tell you everyday that once the program is over, you MUST continue to exercise if you want to live. Most have their first encounter with BB's after a heart atack. I have to have Beta Blockers to live. There is no substitute for them in people with damaged hearts and even tachycardia. But I have been taught the necessary way to manage them or counteract their side effects, which is EXERCISE.

The heart has 4 valves. The pulmonary, aortic, mitrial and tricuspid. If you were missing one, you couldn't be living. You may have one that is congenitally malformed. Do you have a heart murmur? You may have a hole in the septum of your heart. We all did while we were in our Mama's womb. It is where the umbibical cord attached from mother to fetus. Once born a flap of tissue seals this hold between the chambers of the ventricle. Some peoples flap doesn't seal off. Sometimes it causes no problems, because the pressure is higher in the left ventricle which keeps the flap closed.

Keep on rocking,

Jack

 
Old 12-08-2004, 08:38 AM   #9
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

Jack,

I responded under "I Tried".... I do not want to have a stroke with low to normal B/P. You have me concerned.

 
Old 12-08-2004, 06:24 PM   #10
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

[QUOTE=Lillians Axe]On Meds?

I just hate drinking caffeine & soda just to feel alive & not like a zombie.

Don't want to alarm you but if you continue to drink soda you could be adding osteoporosis to your problems.I don't know the science but I believe soda drinks contain phosphorus which interferes with the absorbtion of calcium.

 
Old 12-08-2004, 08:57 PM   #11
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

DAnn73,

I know the feeling! It's exercise intolerance. I am 52 and I fight it everday. It is very hard to get "over the hump" and into shape. It takes a lot of effort for many of us taking beta blockers. Some aren't effected quite as bad. Bad circulation is for "old folks". Can you understand what I am trying to say? Bad circulation for young folks is really bad. That means you're never gonna reach the age to get bad circluation the natural way (toward the end of a long healthy life). I am not trying to alarm you guys, just trying to help, and get you to see that you've got to rev up and blow the soot out, as often as you can. Beta blockers aren't going to kill you, but I'll bet that neither of you stay on these meds for long term (like 45 more years). New meds are constantly coming out. Push yourself, and good luck at it.

Jack

 
Old 12-09-2004, 03:03 AM   #12
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

I am now on Cozaar 100mg once a day, Lopressor 25mg twice a day, Lasix 20mg twice a day and Lipitor 10 mg once a day. Some days I feel like I can go all day without stopping but then I have days where I don't feel like getting out of bed. At first I thought it was because I lacked the motivation on some days but I've been on so many different BP meds these past few years that I'm now starting to think it's the medication.

Thankfully I do not have anything wrong with my heart. I will be having a Nuclear Stress Test and Echocardigram done at the end of the month but I'm sure they will be ok. The doctor has ordered both tests because of my uncontrolled BP and the chest pains that I get. The pains come and go and don't last that long but they are enough to let me know I'm uncomfortable for a few seconds but after reading Jack's post about the ones that happen when I'm resting I want to make sure nothing is wrong.

I do not smoke or drink but I am about 50 lbs overweight. I don't drink coffee or tea but I drink soda.

Is there any real evidence available that says BP meds and diuretics will cause Diabetes?

Thanks
Dianne

 
Old 12-09-2004, 07:04 AM   #13
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Re: Anyone Else Lethargic & Tired

If diuretics & Beta-blockers raised glucose levels so much, then why would so many doctors prescribe them?

You raise very interesting points. Jack you are great on this board!!! I'm going to try to wean off of the Atenolol when I see the specialist on 1/23. It is odd for someone my age who is thin+ to have glucose at 103. I don't eat sweets & I eat really healthy. Beta-blockers just don't agree with me & at 100 MGS of Atenolol & 5/20 of Lotrel it's like a B/P coctail. Waaaay too much. I agree that other drugs will come along. I don't know why I haven't been tried on an ARB. I have asked.

I could easily play 3 sets of tennis a couple of years ago, even with my drinking habits. Now, I feel tired after one set+. It's tough to get an aerobic workout when you feel lethargic all of the time. It's tough to cut out caffeine as well.

Great points Dianne.

 
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