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Old 02-19-2005, 08:07 PM   #1
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CURE for high blood pressure

Hello all,

My hope is to try and tell you with my limited knowledge what causes HBP and the actual cure for it.
I have been a sufferer myself. It seems as about when I turned 42 years of age mine went up 150/90. It normally ran in the 130/80 range throughout my 30's and in my 20's I believe it was somewhat lower although I never really paid that close of attention to it. It was discovered in the usual doctors office visit which surprized me when I was told.

ANYWAY, since then I have been going to a doctor who treats my wife for HBP, diabetes, and thyroidism and who was ONCE a HBP sufferer himself. And when I say sufferer, I mean sufferer, in the tune of pressures of 200/130 and so forth. His BP was so high in fact he was on 4 different meds at once and his headboard from his bed would literally hit the wall as he layed in bed with nearly every beat! Now THAT is high!
But he is now TOTALLY off of BP meds and his blood pressure is 117/74. So what are the causes and HOW did he do it? He now writes articles, on a small scale locally and the AMA (I believe JAMA?) is just NOW beginning to say similar things to what he ALREADY knows!

My doctor says the cause of HBP pressure is a KIDNEY and SODIUM problem. In other words it is IMPAIRED kidneys as the result of to MUCH sodium in the diet. He feels that the heart raises blood pressure due to this impairment from excessive salt loads in the blood as the small cappilaries in the kidneys have become damaged and cannot eliminate sodium properly. He tells us that the kidneys will heal over time, perhaps a few years with medication and reduced salt loads under 400Mg. daily and lower sustained pressure from the meds. In other words the meds and salt reduction should bring pressure down into normal ranges and it needs to be sustained for perhaps 2-3 years for this healing to happen. But he says the kidneys will regenerate just like the liver and heal.

Does it work? Well, I have done this for about 1 year and went off of meds for about 7 months with real nice BP in the 125/75 range. BUT I allowed bad habits back in so now I am on BP meds again and looking closely at the sodium again. I am back under his care again. My office readings were 130-140-90 in my last two visits on 25 Mg. atenolol. But they were a little higher a couple of times at home.


So, its all about kidneys and sodium restriction. It is mportant to get the sodium levels under 400Mg. a day. This looks impossible especially when you read labels but it IS doable ad healthy and BP will drop. A new report I read not long ago says the "Bp drops IN PROPORTION to sodium intake" and I think it came from the AMA.

Now, I realize there may be some who disagree but new information appears to be coming out more and more about this.

 
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Old 02-19-2005, 08:20 PM   #2
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Oh, and how des one keep sodium under 400 Mg/s? daily? Well first of all there will be times you will go over some, just don't get carried away. Cream of Wheat has 0 Mgs. CoCo wheat has 15 Mgs. And they are healthy. You can now buy no salt chicken and bread. There is even no salt chips which are actually quite good. Restaurants ARE a problem though.
It is hard admittably but the benefits are super. I for one don't use a salt shaker and I like food after awhile with no salt. You can substitute pepper or herbs seasonings using alot of it.
Corn on the cob is a tough one for me with no salt, but begin to notice what you are doing and reduce it as much as possible.
Imagination here.
THANK GOD for choclate as it has little or NO salt!

 
Old 02-20-2005, 04:49 AM   #3
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

I agree with you 100%.

The 2400 mg. "limit" from the FDA/USDA is just a humble bow to the "salt food" industry...like telling us how much mercury and arsenic is ok to eat.

We humans got along for millions of years on a diet of less than 400 mg. a day of sodium. After the glorious kidney structures were developed by evolution to save every milligram of salt we go and poison them in a single century with a sodium overdose day after day, year after year...and then take the wretched PILLS to try unsuccessfully to make the kidneys do what they were never made to.

The only real surprise is that hypertension is so SLOW a killer...but then terminal kidney disease isn't.

Last edited by Lenin; 02-20-2005 at 04:49 AM.

 
Old 02-20-2005, 07:10 AM   #4
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin
I agree with you 100%.

The 2400 mg. "limit" from the FDA/USDA is just a humble bow to the "salt food" industry...
I didn't know there was a "salt food" industry. I just thought that salt makes food taste better. If food companies didn't use salt in their food products, no one would buy the products, and the food companies would go out of business all over the world. Plus, without salt, many food products would decompose much more quickly. Do you have any links to articles showing that there is some kind of conspiracy between any of the governments of the world and a "salt food" industry?

Quote:
We humans got along for millions of years on a diet of less than 400 mg. a day of sodium.
This history of salt is more interesting than most people think. Did you know that, in previous times, salt was so important that it was used as currency? Salt was an extremely important product prior to the discovery of refrigeration. Salt is a great food preservative, and it is still widely used in third world countries to preserve food.

The salt content of the foods eaten in historic times was probably many times higher than it is today, especially when related to the consumption of meats and bread.

OTOH, if I consume too much sodium, it drives my blood pressure higher, so, like many others with hypertension, I have to limit my sodium.

Last edited by Machaon; 02-20-2005 at 07:11 AM.

 
Old 02-20-2005, 08:16 AM   #5
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

You've got to admit that so many of our foods contain excessively high levels of sodium. They go way, way overboard with sodium. It throws the sodium/potassium balance out of whack. I can remember consuming one of these frozen dinners which had over 1,000mg sodium in it. Afterwards, I became so thirsty that I drank about a half gallon of water. Now, to me that's far from normal. The food industry needs to clean up its act. We don't need so much added sodium in our foods. It would make far more sense to cut back on the sodium content. If people still want to add more salt, then they can. They can also cut back on the sodium chloride, and substitute potassium chloride in its place.
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Old 02-20-2005, 09:53 AM   #6
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARIZONA73
You've got to admit that so many of our foods contain excessively high levels of sodium. They go way, way overboard with sodium.
I agree with that. They could cut the sodium down by 50%, or more, in a lot of foods, and it would be a lot healthier, and it would still taste good, to me. Unfortunately, the food industry has to cater to the taste buds of the public. For instance, my wife loves tons of salt on her food, and it doesn't bother her blood pressure at all. She, like many others, won't buy a food product unless it is "salted" and/or seasoned to taste, especially if it is fast food.

My blood pressure is sensitive to sodium, so I really have to watch my sodium intake. But, alas, sodium is only one of many causes for high blood pressure problems, so the fight goes on.

Quote:
The food industry needs to clean up its act. We don't need so much added sodium in our foods. It would make far more sense to cut back on the sodium content.
The companies that cut back on the sodium in their foods would soon go out of business. Sufficient people wouldn't buy the products. Food companies spend significant amounts of time, money and effort in discovering what food products the public is willing to buy.

Last edited by Machaon; 02-20-2005 at 03:38 PM.

 
Old 02-20-2005, 10:06 AM   #7
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

I would agree that if any decision to sharply reduce the sodium content of foods was strictly voluntary, then very little changes would occur. No food producer would want to voluntarily put his head on the chopping block, and lose business to the high sodium competitors. But what if these changes were made mandatory, as a matter of law? That would provide more incentive to reduce the levels of sodium. Besides, if people want more salt in their food, they can easily add it themselves. But once it's already in there, and we don't like it, then what are we supposed to do? So long as people are able to salt their food to their own satisfaction, I see no reason why these food producers should go out of business.
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Old 02-20-2005, 01:21 PM   #8
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin
I agree with you 100%.

The 2400 mg. "limit" from the FDA/USDA is just a humble bow to the "salt food" industry...like telling us how much mercury and arsenic is ok to eat.

We humans got along for millions of years on a diet of less than 400 mg. a day of sodium. After the glorious kidney structures were developed by evolution to save every milligram of salt we go and poison them in a single century with a sodium overdose day after day, year after year...and then take the wretched PILLS to try unsuccessfully to make the kidneys do what they were never made to.

The only real surprise is that hypertension is so SLOW a killer...but then terminal kidney disease isn't.

Yes, I agree as well.

Salt is actually "manufactured" if I understand it correctly. It 's not like the earlier "sea salts" and so forth that contained all of the natural minerals and as done through drying and evaporation.
Our present day salt is an imposter and a killer in my opinion.

When I asked my doctor about "sea salt" he just said "I don't know". In my opinion it was an honest answer. So one still has to be concerned or do research on it. Some say it balances out the bad side of salt, but in my opinion it should still be used sparingly, VERY sparingly, if at all

Don't get me wrong. ALL humans have a taste for something salty once in awhile, but our present sodium chloride can hurt (impair) the kidneys and raise BP.
I believe as my doctor that it IS the culprit of HBP.

Now, as to a diet restricted in sodium. First off let me say I am a mans man. I like he outdoors, work outdoors and like good hearty meals.
A low salt diet can be hearty and good. Use your imagination. For instance, I like a good sandwich with coffee.
Well,,,I used no salt bread with plenty of veggies, and a low salt turkey, and a little mustard and a load of sandwich oil (low salt), low sodium cheese and you could not tell the difference from a large subway sub. I think I had 250 Mg. sodium in it. Compare that to a Big Mac at 1700Mg. sodium or so.
One kills, one gives LIFE and lowers blood pressure and drops or keeps weight DOWN.
This is just an example. I culd top that off with some chocolate pudding or fruit.

But one HAS to use their imagination, herbs and LOTS of pepper

After awhile you will develop a little bit of distaste for salt. Your tongue will pick it out real quick.

But keep in mind that you will heal, over time. BP meds can be invaluable in helping you achieve this.

Last edited by JIMP; 02-20-2005 at 01:26 PM.

 
Old 02-20-2005, 01:53 PM   #9
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Also it helps to get a bread machine. We can make a better loaf of whole wheat bread here than you could ever buy at the store. Not adding salt to bread makes little difference in my opinion. If you use smart balance butter it tastes great!

But the whole idea is sodium. If you want your blood pressure lowered and cured over time you have to take a serious look at your sodium intake and lower it drastically, try at least, to get it under 400 Mg. daily.
But bad things can happen as well. I ate two sloppy joes today that I thought my wife made that was low in sodium. I asked her and she didn't know and when I checked the additive for the meat it was 5,000Mg.!! That averaged out to about 750Mg. per sandwich.
I was hot, but lovable

But when things like this happen, tommorrow is another day and we start again and watch closer.

If one should consume a high sodium meal BP can stay up for 2 days sometimes as the heart raises the BP to get rid of sodium.

Last edited by JIMP; 02-20-2005 at 01:55 PM.

 
Old 02-20-2005, 03:17 PM   #10
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

I have worked for a long time as an consulting engineer in many food processing plants - if you shop at walmart, I have worked for the companies that make 50% of what they stock.

The salt that is added to most processed food isnt added for taste - It is added to keep the food from going bad as quickly as it normally would, because consumers & large grocery stores demand long shelf life

To prove this you can try an experiment - take some fresh bread & some store bought bread, & set them on the shelf - the fresh bread will start to mold within a week, the store bread can last several weeks - you can try this with most foods you can think of

If you want to eat low salt you have to use fresh ingredients & find time to cook, or a wife that wants to stay home & cook for you

 
Old 02-21-2005, 05:26 AM   #11
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmojo
I have worked for a long time as an consulting engineer in many food processing plants - if you shop at walmart, I have worked for the companies that make 50% of what they stock.

The salt that is added to most processed food isnt added for taste - It is added to keep the food from going bad as quickly as it normally would, because consumers & large grocery stores demand long shelf life

To prove this you can try an experiment - take some fresh bread & some store bought bread, & set them on the shelf - the fresh bread will start to mold within a week, the store bread can last several weeks - you can try this with most foods you can think of

If you want to eat low salt you have to use fresh ingredients & find time to cook, or a wife that wants to stay home & cook for you


Hello,

There are more and more foods available that have alot less sodium. It is good to bgin looking at labels and watching.

I will not doubt that salt can be used as a preservative as well. Meat, for instance at one point before refrigeration was salted and dried. This would keep a long time and was similar, or the same, as beef Jerky. Beef jery is high btw, very high, almost 2500-4000Mg. per bag.
But nowadays regular food has much to much, on top of that we even dump more on it while cooking.

But if it IS the culprit of impaired kidneys we should seek every and all ways to eliminate it as much as possible.
Soups can have 1,000Mg. per can easily. This is outrageous.

I want my BP lowered and kept there. I feel better, act better, AM better and so would everyone else be.

My doctor says it is the cause of nearly ALL HBP problems. And what does one do when he finds the cause?

IF I could ONLY invent a pill to obsorb sodium in the stomach, I'd make a gazillion
Once it gets passed the taste buds I'd neutralize the little devils

Last edited by JIMP; 02-21-2005 at 05:28 AM.

 
Old 02-21-2005, 05:37 AM   #12
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerzoids
I didn't know there was a "salt food" industry.
There is. Its products can be recognized by turining a can over and seeing if the "food" contains a gram or two of sodium. If anyone has difficulty fiinding the "SALT FOODS" perhaps the names Stouffers, Banquet, Sw@nson's, Campbells, Progresso, and Del Monte will guide you on your quest in better understanding the SALT FOOD INDUSTRY.

Quote:
I just thought that salt makes food taste better. If food companies didn't use salt in their food products, no one would buy the products, and the food companies would go out of business all over the world.
ALMOST; salt makes INEDIBLE, overprocessed, food that has been laying around in a metal can for a year or more food taste vaguely EDIBLE. But you are absolutely correct when you say if they didn't use excess salt in their foods nobody would buy them...they would be as tasteless as the styrofoam many are packed in. In fact the taste of the salt might be a device to warn us that we should stop eating because we are chewing into the packaging.

Quote:
Did you know that, in previous times, salt was so important that it was used as currency? The salt content of the foods eaten in historic times was probably many times higher than it is today, especially when related to the consumption of meats and bread.
Would you shave gold off your coins to make bad food taste good? Would you toss a salad with hundred dollar bills? Salt was rare and valued and thats why it wasn't dumped into pea soup, it was traded for REAL food...and boats and houses! They probably used PEAS for the taste of pea soup...how novel.
Only when a food additive is cheap is it eaten, so don't eat your RENOIRS, they have a better function!

An aside:
Sandra Dee died yesterday...OF KIDNEY DISEASE!

Last edited by Lenin; 02-21-2005 at 06:22 AM.

 
Old 02-21-2005, 08:20 AM   #13
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin
There is. Its products can be recognized by turining a can over and seeing if the "food" contains a gram or two of sodium. If anyone has difficulty fiinding the "SALT FOODS" perhaps the names Stouffers, Banquet, Sw@nson's, Campbells, Progresso, and Del Monte will guide you on your quest in better understanding the SALT FOOD INDUSTRY.
An interesting point. By "SALT FOOD INDUSTRY", do think that companies, like Campbells and Banquet are in the food business just to sell the salt? Do you feel that the sale of salt is where these companies make their money?

Quote:
Would you shave gold off your coins to make bad food taste good?
No, but in historic times, before paper money, people would not only use salt as currency, they would use other food or metal items as currency. It was called the barter system.

Salt was unique because it not only preverved food, it made the food taste better and salt is essential to one's health. Those who did not have sufficient sodium in their diet would get very sick.

Quote:
Would you toss a salad with hundred dollar bills?
No, but if I was not hypertensively sensitive to salt, I would certainly use more salt on my food. And, if I lived in historic times, when people got sick because of a lack of sodium in their diet, I would certainly shave some salt off my salt currency and add it to my diet.

Quote:
Salt was rare and valued and thats why it wasn't dumped into pea soup, it was traded for REAL food...and boats and houses!
In places where salt was rare, people needed it in their diet for health reasons, and as a food preservative. I find it hard to believe that people bartered for salt by giving up their homes, but if you say so.

Quote:
An aside:
Sandra Dee died yesterday...OF KIDNEY DISEASE!
When I was a kid I was in love with Sandra Dee.

I wonder if her kidney disease was caused, in part, due to too little salt in her system?

Last edited by Machaon; 02-21-2005 at 08:21 AM.

 
Old 02-21-2005, 11:28 AM   #14
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

beerdrinker,
Try to take in two words at one time: SALT FOOD...say it a few times and the second word begins to register...SALT FOOD.
Reminiscent of SALT COD and SALT PORK.
People selling the products were selling COD and PORK...get it?

It seems sort of simple to me, but some people prefer repetition.

And of course, repetition seems needed on the concept that when something is used as currency IT IS NOT EATEN...it is used in trade...YES, for houses if you have enough currency!
Remember, YOU said salt was so valuable it was used as currency...I concur!

MrMojo,
I disagree that salt is used mainly as a preservative. Its superabundant presence in canned and frozen food is not needed AT ALL. If a can is not sterilized of all bacteria it will spoil, salt notwithstanding...in fat if two cans, highly salted and unsalted were kept for two years (or 5) it's likely that the salty food will last LESS long because the can will corrode, leak and poison the food. Frozen food is preserved by its freezing and little else. When it thaws, it spoils, salted or not.

The amount of foods that depend on salting for preservation is vanishingly small in the Twenty-first century (at least in the U.S.)...I'm thinking bacalau (salt cod), salamis and preserved deli meats, some hams, olives, cheeses to a slight degree. There isn't much.

Last edited by Lenin; 02-21-2005 at 11:49 AM.

 
Old 02-21-2005, 02:43 PM   #15
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Re: CURE for high blood pressure

Lenin,


You are correct here in your postings. Sure, some may get by for awhile on a high sodium diet but sooner or later it will catch up with them
and begin to harm the kidneys.
The good news is that the kidneys can REGENERATE like a lkiver. THAT is indeed good news.
BUT one must remove the salt loads off of them and perhaps use some medication for awhile to lower it so they can heal over time. It took time to create the damage so it will take time to cure it. Perhaps a few years or so.

I will also pose a challenge here. I challenge ANYONE on BP medication to try lowering your salt intake (under 400Mg.)for 1 week and SEE if your meds are more affective. IN FACT you will find youself taking LESS of a dosage. I discovered this over the holidays as I went way overboard in salt intake. My BP shot up and my meds had a terrible time keeping it down at higher dosages. When I lowered my sodium intake I used about 1/4 what I did before.

Let us consider that 2 out of 3 are considered to have higher BP than normal.

Wonder why??

 
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