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Old 11-22-2005, 05:14 PM   #1
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Morning Readings

Every morning I take my readings they are all between 115-128 75-82. My pressure will rise throughout the day - I can take it at lunch and get 147/87 and then again after work and get the same reading but at night after a shower I'll get readings like the morning. Most likely i like many othes are nervous and stressed when rushing home from work. I am sorry, most people are not 120/80 and under all day long - everyone has periods when it goes up to high levels - even for a few hours and then back down. Even if my pressure was high all day for 8 straight hours it is plain old proof that I am fine based on my morning readings alone. Even if my dr. told me it was high I would ignore him b/c the morning readings tell me all i need to know. obviously it is not consistently high b/c of the morning readings. I seriously beleive the entire high Blood Pressue industry to be a joke. I just get so sick of people worrying themselves sick b/c of something that dr's dont even treat correctly. the Bp drugs are a joke and a money making device. Everyone should exercise ,eat well and not worry about it anymore. The doctors and media are scaring everyone. people have been living with HBp for years without all of this analysis and drug taking. Many many people have HBp their entire life and live fine. I am just sick of seeing people freaking out b/c their Bp is 144/86. IT is not bad.

 
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Old 11-22-2005, 06:06 PM   #2
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Re: Morning Readings

I take a different attitude toward it than you, Lenny. I don't think I "freak out" about a reading of 144/86. I see it as a challenge - to see if I can discover what the CAUSE is and to reduce it to a much safer level, through diet if at all possible. I'm retired, so I can take this "study" as something of a hobby, and hopefully impact my life in a positive way besides.

My father had his first stroke at 69. The majority of my first and second degree relatives died of strokes or heart attacks in their 70s, 80s and 90s, mostly strokes. I'm age 64. "In the 70s" is beginning to sound not too far off. From my study of one of my symptoms (postprandial hypotension), I believe there is a strong probability that I have already had considerable brain damage, even if it is largely asymptomatic at this point. Further damage could spoil my fun, so I think it worthwhile to see if I can delay that as long as possible.

There is a very strong link between high blood pressure and strokes in the research, so that is where I am directing my real focus with regard to my own health. The link between cholesterol and CVD for women is much weaker, so even though my cholesterol is considerably higher than my doctor would like to see, I'm taking a far less aggressive approach to dealing with that.

I do believe that there may be many people who are prescribed drugs for HBP who don't need to be on them, especially those who have "white coat syndrome." And I would like to see doctors put more emphasis on recommending lifestyle changes to those who are only mildly hypertensive. Unfortunately, in this society it is usually "out with the script packet" and out the door.

 
Old 11-23-2005, 04:21 AM   #3
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Re: Morning Readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenny76
Even if my pressure was high all day for 8 straight hours it is plain old proof that I am fine based on my morning readings alone.
Do you consider high blood pressure readings, for 8 straight hours, healthy?

Quote:
Even if my dr. told me it was high I would ignore him b/c the morning readings tell me all i need to know. obviously it is not consistently high b/c of the morning readings.
You are correct. High blood pressure is only high when it is high. When the pressure in one's circulatory is healthy, such as for you in the morning, it is considered healthy at that time of day. Consider the person who gets headaches all day long, except in the morning. Because that person doesn't get a headache in the morning, it doesn't mean that their headaches the rest of the day don't exist.

Quote:
I seriously beleive the entire high Blood Pressue industry to be a joke. I just get so sick of people worrying themselves sick b/c of something that dr's dont even treat correctly.
I agree with you. Doctor's can't treat blood pressure effectively. This is probably why most people, with high blood pressure, don't have their blood pressure under control.

Quote:
the Bp drugs are a joke and a money making device.
As we age, and our body's continue to wear out, there is more of a need for blood pressure meds. For my blood pressure problems, the ONLY effective BP med is a calcium channel blocker, without which I would be dead, or worse.

Quote:
Everyone should exercise ,eat well and not worry about it anymore.
Good advice. In my case, exercise and diet and taking the proper medicines are not enough. I've also got to avoid those things that cause me to suffer from high blood pressure and heart arrhythmias. I don't worry about it, I do research and take action.

Quote:
The doctors and media are scaring everyone. people have been living with HBp for years without all of this analysis and drug taking.
People have also been dying from problems caused by uncontrolled high blood pressure. High blood pressure is like smoking. It can take many years before the damage from either becomes life threatening. Of course, the elderly are much more susceptible to serious problems from smoking or uncontrolled high blood pressure.

Quote:
Many many people have HBp their entire life and live fine. I am just sick of seeing people freaking out b/c their Bp is 144/86. IT is not bad.
I disagree that most people with high blood pressure live their entire life and live fine. On the other hand, 144/86 is not all that bad. But, as with all health problems, the longer it is left untreated the worse it will get. 144/86 today, perhaps 150/90 next year, then ........
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Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

 
Old 11-23-2005, 05:57 AM   #4
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Re: Morning Readings

If you read enough studies, you see that those people researching these drugs consider control 140/90. MANY studies see success with averages of 145 systolic.
NONE of the large studies I've looked at have taken large groups of people, with persisten REAL hypertension, say over 160/100 and ever DREAMED of getting them even to 130/85.

Then we compare this to the fantasy land dreamed up by the AMA to get patients back on a weekly basis to fiddle drugs and try for 115/75...

If you don't believe me, look at studies that deal with treating hypertensives in the REAL WORLD...the internet is full of them, check the numbers they get.

Most of the VERY drugs that are being crammed down are throats were approved only because they managed to APPROACH 140/90 from the upside, and some never achieved THAT. So what do they DO to try for the 115/75 that the Wizard of Oz decreed, they give you 5 of these drugs to take every day.

As people age, their arteries stiffen...law of nature. As arteries stiffen, blood pressure increases unless the heart can be made to beat weaker or you have less and less blood to circulate. I'm waiting for the reintroduction of bloodletting to achieve the latter goal. We already have beta-blockers and calcium channel blockers for the first task. I guess if someone lives LONG enough, it will take stopping the heartbeat to get good numbers.

BP is made a big thing of because millions of doctors can get their "usual" fee several times a year by operating a piece of equipment that costs less than $100 and takes 2 minutes. Even the stupidest of them can mange to get the earplugs into the right holes...and then say "Hmmm, come back in 6 weeks...here's another prescription."

Last edited by Lenin; 11-23-2005 at 05:58 AM.

 
Old 11-23-2005, 06:55 AM   #5
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Re: Morning Readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin
If you read enough studies, you see that those people researching these drugs consider control 140/90. MANY studies see success with averages of 145 systolic.
NONE of the large studies I've looked at have taken large groups of people, with persisten REAL hypertension, say over 160/100 and ever DREAMED of getting them even to 130/85.

Then we compare this to the fantasy land dreamed up by the AMA to get patients back on a weekly basis to fiddle drugs and try for 115/75...

If you don't believe me, look at studies that deal with treating hypertensives in the REAL WORLD...the internet is full of them, check the numbers they get.
Most blood pressure meds only reduce blood pressure by around 5-8mm. That is why cardiologists prescribe multiple blood pressure meds. Their theory is, if a patient can tolerate four different blood pressure meds, each lowering the blood pressure by 5mm, then the accumulative effect might be 20mm.

The AMA also strongly suggests proper diet and exercise. What would you do, if you were in charge of the AMA and people were suffering from the ill effects of uncontrolled blood pressure? What would be your target blood pressure?

Quote:
Most of the VERY drugs that are being crammed down are throats were approved only because they managed to APPROACH 140/90 from the upside, and some never achieved THAT.
Not true. Most clinical trials show an average reduction of somewhere between 5-8mm from any given blood pressure medicine. The hopes of any blood pressure medicine is to get the blood pressure down to a healthy average, but the realization is that they only reduce a person's blood pressure by 5-8mm.

Quote:
So what do they DO to try for the 115/75 that the Wizard of Oz decreed, they give you 5 of these drugs to take every day.
What would be your targeted blood pressure for the general public?

OTOH, even with 5 blood pressure meds per day, most blood pressure victims still don't have their blood pressure under control, PLUS they suffer from all kinds of miserable side effects from the meds. In a perfect world, each patient would be monitored continuously, 24 hours each day, for months, until the doctor could find the perfect combination of medicines and avoidance and lifestyle changes, that would result in a healthy blood pressure for their patients. This is never going to happen, so it is up to the patient to do this, although most patients are not capable, or willing, to do this.

Quote:
As people age, their arteries stiffen...law of nature. As arteries stiffen, blood pressure increases unless the heart can be made to beat weaker or you have less and less blood to circulate.
Most blood pressure meds relax the heart and relax the blood vessels. The combination of this takes stress off of the heart and makes it easier for blood to pass through the blood vessels, reducing the blood pressure, and keeping the heart satisfactorily pumping the required blood to the body's organs and systems.

Quote:
We already have beta-blockers and calcium channel blockers for the first task. I guess if someone lives LONG enough, it will take stopping the heartbeat to get good numbers.
You need to read the descriptions of these meds and learn a little about how they work. These meds do relax the heart beat, but at the same time, they relax the blood vessels. The combination of both actions results in less stress and pressure on the heart, and in lower blood pressure throughout the body. These blood pressure meds, while they come with unpleasant side effects, are miracle medical breakthroughs that have saved many lives. People live longer and more healthy lives because of these meds. The proof is in the pudding!

Quote:
BP is made a big thing of because millions of doctors can get their "usual" fee several times a year by operating a piece of equipment that costs less than $100 and takes 2 minutes. Even the stupidest of them can mange to get the earplugs into the right holes...and then say "Hmmm, come back in 6 weeks...here's another prescription."
There are millions of people dying or suffering all kinds of health problems because of uncontrolled high blood pressure. There also are millions of people living longer, better lives because they have taken these wonderful blood pressure meds. No system is perfect. Are you suggesting that people stop worrying about their high blood pressure and stop going to doctors?
__________________
Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

Last edited by Machaon; 11-23-2005 at 06:57 AM.

 
Old 11-23-2005, 11:48 AM   #6
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Re: Morning Readings

I take an ARB and a CCB, and each, as far as I can tell, reduces my bp a lot more than 5-8 mg. I would have very high bp without them, with I'm sure predictable stoke, kidney, and heart enlarging effects eventually. Diet and weight loss have not helped me that much, the same with exercise. I do notice that both caffeine and liquor--esp. red wine (?) do raise my bp, the latter a lot if I have more than 2 glasses (one glass is pretty neutral or even lowers a bit). Anxiety bouts are the main cause of bp spikes for me, and the antidepressants are for me a cure worse than the disease.
So all in all I agree that bp medication probably saved and certainly prolongs my life.

 
Old 11-23-2005, 12:10 PM   #7
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Re: Morning Readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by pal7778
I take an ARB and a CCB, and each, as far as I can tell, reduces my bp a lot more than 5-8 mg.
They key words here are, "as far as I can tell". In order to really know, you would have to take your blood pressure many times during the day, or wear a 24 hour bp monitor, for at least a full month before taking the meds, and after taking the meds. There are a zillion things that influence the blood pressure.

I've taken my blood pressure about 17,000 times in the past 7 years, and have computerized the results, and produce reports and graphs. I am amazed at the variability of the blood pressure, and the zillions of influences.

But....... for conversation's sake, I think that it is great that your blood pressure meds have such a profound effect on your average blood pressure.

Quote:
I would have very high bp without them, with I'm sure predictable stoke, kidney, and heart enlarging effects eventually.
Before the drug industry spent hundreds of millions of dollars developing these relatively new heart meds, life expectancy and quality of life wasn't nearly as good as it is today. The public has benefited greatly from drug development. I remember, as a teen, having to take Marax for my asthma, a terrible asthma med with very nasty side effects. With the discovery of the synthetic steriods, the life of an asthmatic is longer and better.

Quote:
Diet and weight loss have not helped me that much, the same with exercise.
You are not allowed to say that. Just kidding. In my opinion, exercise and diet are the best medicines of all, and the price is right!

Quote:
I do notice that both caffeine and liquor--esp. red wine (?) do raise my bp, the latter a lot if I have more than 2 glasses (one glass is pretty neutral or even lowers a bit). Anxiety bouts are the main cause of bp spikes for me, and the antidepressants are for me a cure worse than the disease.
So all in all I agree that bp medication probably saved and certainly prolongs my life.
I take Verapamil. For me it is a wonderful blood pressure med at bringing down my blood pressure. I also have heart failure, so I have to be careful when and how I take it. I also take digoxin, which keeps my heart from going nuts. I feel lucky that these types of meds are available.

Have an enjoyable Thanksgiving and don't drink too much coffee and red wine!
__________________
Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

 
Old 11-23-2005, 03:09 PM   #8
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Re: Morning Readings

Diet and exercise are surely good things, but they don't do much for my bp. Maybe
that's because my hbp was longstanding and undiagnosed.

Thanks for all your comments and Happy Thanksgiving!

 
Old 11-23-2005, 04:56 PM   #9
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Re: Morning Readings

Quote:
Originally Posted by pal7778
Diet and exercise are surely good things, but they don't do much for my bp. Maybe that's because my hbp was longstanding and undiagnosed.
I know that may be true with some folks, but just so others reading this don't think it is true for all, I was able to reduce my SBP around 15 points through diet alone and get off my BP meds. And that is still just sitting on my duff. If I'm ever able to get back to exercising again, maybe I can trim a few more points off that.

Last edited by Uff-Da!; 11-24-2005 at 06:25 AM. Reason: 15 points, not 15 pounds! Sheesh!

 
Old 11-24-2005, 06:09 AM   #10
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Re: Morning Readings

For me diet and excercise is a way of life even though I feel it has done nothing in helping me not get high BP and high cholesterol. I do it becuase it makes me feel GREAT and look my best and stay happy and energetic. As for my BP I just took it and it was 117/70 and that is 30 min after an intense weight training and cardio session. I have unsucessfully experimented off the diovan with poor results in my opinion. Like a good little girl I take my diovan every morn because for me Diet and Excercise have done squat for my maladies..

 
Old 11-24-2005, 07:43 AM   #11
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Re: Morning Readings

Well, here's the irony: I'm sure bad diet, insufficient exercise, and lots of excess weight were causes of my hbp. But whatever they did turns out to be maybe impossible to undo. So I weigh 60 lbs. less than I did when my systolic was 200 (admittedly just after I broke my arm), and I think it would still be 190 unmedicated
now. I feel fine and all that, with no symptoms of heart problems etc. and blood sugar
under 100, even without fasting. My bp is generally under control, although rampant anxiety can negate the medication and cause my systolic and my pulse to go nuts.

 
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