It appears you have not yet registered with our community. To register please click here...


 Home Message Boards Videos Join for Free User Blogs Board Index
Search
 
Forgot your username or password?


High & Low Blood Pressure Message Board
Post New Thread   Closed Thread
Share
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-14-2005, 07:43 AM   #1
Senior Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,546
Hugs: 0
Hugged 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Lenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB UserLenin HB User
Cardiac Risk From Treated Hypertension

This is about the third time I have run into this vexing data...this time from the NIH (National Institute of Health). It's reprinted in a VERY good book called THE HARVARD MEDICAL GUIDE TO LOWERING YOUR CHOLESTEROL by Mason Freeman, M.D.

A common method of quantifying cardiac risk by adding points for various risk factors such as age, sex, systolic blood pressure, smoking, total cholesterol, and HDL. The government does so and comes up with a percent probability of getting heart disease in the next 5 years.

The contribution from hypertension is fairly large...whether it's cause and effect I'm still not sure, I think not, but that's another discussion.

Anyhoo the risk of systolic contribution for women looks like this:
<120.......... Untreated: 0........Treated:0
120-129...... Untreated: 1........Treated:3
130-139...... Untreated: 2........Treated:4
140-159...... Untreated:3.........Treated:5
>159.......... Untreated: 4.........Treated:6

OK, what does this show?
It shows that a womaen with an untreated 140-159 systolic has the identical risk as a woman taking hypertensive drugs and getting a systolic between 120-129. Thus a woman who drops her BP between 20 and 39 points is doing NOTHING to lower her cardiac risk.
In fact, if a women goes from 158 to 140 her risk actually goes UP from the medication.

The numbers for men are slightly less dramatic but still show almost the same discrepancy.

If these numbers are true, then what they pretty much indicate is that while low blood pressure is highly desirable for avoiding heart disease, artificial lowering with drugs is of amost no benefit, in fact can be detrimental.

Your thoughts.

Last edited by Lenin; 12-15-2005 at 08:10 AM.

 
Sponsors Lightbulb
   
Old 12-14-2005, 09:08 AM   #2
Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 379
Hugs: 0
Hugged 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pal7778 HB User
Re: Cardiac Risk From Treated Hypertension

Reading this, three conclusions come to mind:
1. Maybe hbp medication fends of heart attacks only if it gets bp very low.
2. The main benefit of hbp medication has little to nothing to do with heart attacks, which has always been my thought. The benefit is marginal at best, but better with strokes and much better with heart enlargement and kidney disease.
3. It's possible that the artificial lowering of bp interferes with the blood flow required
to get around blockages and developing the collaterals that might naturally bypass blockages. It's not clear to me that hbp actually contributes to the development plaque, blockages, and all that--although it may be a symptom of them. Lowering bp
would mainly be masking the symptom, not dealing with its cause.
--On all this I know little and am guessing.

 
Old 12-14-2005, 02:49 PM   #3
Senior Member
(male)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 154
Hugs: 0
Hugged 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rigel434 HB User
Re: Cardiac Risk From Treated Hypertension

This study seems in conflict with the ALLHAT study against which all other blood pressure studies must be measured. That study showed that diuretics and ACE inhibitors reduced heart attack and strokes considerably. CCBs reduced strokes a lot, but had less benefit for heart attack and may have even caused them in some people.

 
Old 12-14-2005, 11:07 PM   #4
Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 379
Hugs: 0
Hugged 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
pal7778 HB User
Re: Cardiac Risk From Treated Hypertension

If the ALLHAT is right, does anyone have any explanation for those differences?

 
Old 12-15-2005, 06:16 AM   #5
Veteran
(male)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 334
Hugs: 0
Hugged 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Palamedes HB User
Re: Cardiac Risk From Treated Hypertension

How does ALLHAT conflict with what Lenin has posted? ALLHAT merely compared different antihypertensive drugs. ALLHAT didn't have a placebo arm (i.e., no drugs). EVERYONE in the ALLHAT study was taking medication.

Pal

 
Closed Thread

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
Cardiac symptoms with hypo? funkadelica Thyroid Disorders 7 06-04-2008 10:09 PM
Cardiac CT Scan, anyone? CircusSquirrel Heart Disorders 12 08-11-2006 09:32 AM
PVC's, Ablation, and Fear & Loathing in Cardiac Land dreambetter Heart Disorders 11 02-16-2006 08:47 PM
anyone had cardiac rehab in UK? happybunny Heart Disorders 2 04-25-2005 11:59 AM
Nine Heart Risk Factors SafetyJ2006 Heart Disorders 3 09-03-2004 07:48 PM
Newly Diagnosed Cardiac Hypertension, patience 50 Heart Disorders 0 05-21-2004 09:11 AM
Radio Frequency Cardiac Ablation and Electrophysiology Study chazaf2004 Heart Disorders 3 02-12-2004 06:24 AM
Had a Cardiac Cath and a Gallium Scan--what next? spirlhelix High & Low Blood Pressure 5 11-06-2003 06:46 AM
CVD Risk Assessment Tables maxjasper High & Low Blood Pressure 1 10-06-2003 12:37 PM




Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off









Top 10 Drugs Discussed on this Board.
(Go to DrugTalk.com for complete list)
Atenolol
Benicar
Clonidine Cozaar
Diovan
  Lisinopril
Lotrel
Norvasc
Potassium
Toprol


Message Boards
  • Open to All Other Health Topics
  • It's Life - Off Topic Discussions
  • Natural Disaster Sympathies and Support
  • Health News
  • HealthBoards Testimonials
  • Suggestions for New Boards
  • Registration/Membership/Site Problems
  • Health Issues
  • General Health
  • Abuse Support
  • Acid Reflux / GERD
  • Acne
  • Share Your Acne Story
  • Acne Tips
  • Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS)
  • ADD / ADHD
  • Addiction & Recovery
  • Addison's Disease
  • Aging Issues
  • Allergies
  • Alternative Medicine
  • Alzheimer's Disease & Dementia
  • Amputation / Prosthetic
  • Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS)
  • Anemia
  • Aneurysm
  • Anger Management
  • Angina
  • Anxiety
  • Share Your Anxiety Story
  • Anxiety Tips
  • Arthritis
  • Asperger's Syndrome
  • Asthma
  • Autism Spectrum
  • Autoimmune Disorders
  • Back Problems
  • Beauty & Cosmetics
  • Bell's Palsy
  • Bipolar Disorder
  • Birth Control
  • Blood and Blood Vessel
  • Bone Disorders
  • Bowel Disorders
  • Brain & Head Injury
  • Brain & Nervous System Disorders
  • Brain Tumors
  • Breastfeeding
  • Burns & Injuries
  • Cancer
  • Cancer: Bladder
  • Cancer: Bone
  • Cancer: Brain
  • Cancer: Breast
  • Cancer: Cervical & Ovarian
  • Cancer: Colon
  • Cancer: Esophageal
  • Cancer: Kidney
  • Cancer: Lung
  • Cancer: Oral
  • Cancer: Pancreatic & Liver
  • Cancer: Prostate
  • Cancer: Rectal & Anal
  • Cancer: Skin
  • Cancer: Stomach
  • Cancer: Testicular
  • Cancer: Throat
  • Cancer: Thyroid
  • Cancer: Uterine
  • Candida
  • Caregivers
  • Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
  • Celiac Disease
  • Cerebral Palsy
  • Chemotherapy
  • Children - Special Needs
  • Children's Health
  • Chronic Fatigue
  • Codependency
  • Colds & Flu
  • Swine Flu (H1N1)
  • Cosmetic / Plastic Surgery
  • Costochondritis
  • Crohn's Disease / Ulcerative Colitis
  • Cystic Fibrosis
  • Death & Dying
  • Degenerative Diseases
  • Dental Health
  • Depression
  • Share Your Depression Story
  • Depression Tips
  • Diabetes
  • Hypoglycemia
  • Diet & Nutrition
  • Digestive Disorders
  • Disabilities
  • Divorce & Separation
  • Dizziness / Vertigo
  • Down Syndrome
  • Drug Interactions
  • Dyslexia
  • Dysphagia
  • Ear, Nose & Throat
  • Eating Disorder Recovery
  • Endocrine Disorders
  • Endometriosis
  • Environmental Disorders
  • Epilepsy
  • Epstein Barr Virus (EBV)
  • Exercise & Fitness
  • Eye & Vision
  • Family & Friends of Cancer Patients
  • Family & Friends of the Mentally Ill
  • Family Planning / Adoption
  • Fibromyalgia
  • Foot Problems
  • Gallbladder
  • Genetic Disorders
  • Grief & Loss
  • Hair Loss / Alopecia
  • Hair Problems
  • Headaches & Migraines
  • Health Insurance Issues
  • Healthcare Professionals
  • Healthy Lifestyle
  • Hearing Disorders
  • Heart Disorders
  • Hepatitis
  • Hernia
  • Herpes
  • High & Low Blood Pressure
  • High Cholesterol
  • HIV Prevention
  • HIV/AIDS Living With
  • Hormone Problems
  • Hospice
  • Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
  • Hypochondria
  • Hysterectomy
  • Immune Disorders
  • Incontinence
  • Infant Care (up to 18 months old)
  • Infectious Diseases
  • Infertility
  • Share Your Infertility Story
  • Inner Ear Disorders
  • Interstitial Cystitis (IC)
  • Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)
  • Kidney Disorders
  • Knee & Hip Problems
  • Lasik Eye Surgery
  • Learning Disorders
  • Leukemia
  • Liver & Pancreas Disorders
  • Lung & Respiratory Disorders / COPD
  • Lupus
  • Lyme Disease
  • Share Your Lyme Disease Story
  • Lymphedema
  • Lymphomas
  • Men's Health
  • Menopause
  • Mental Health
  • Mesothelioma
  • Military Health Issues
  • Miscarriage & Still Birth
  • Mononucleosis
  • Multiple Sclerosis
  • Muscular Dystrophy
  • Myositis
  • Nail Problems
  • Neurofibromatosis
  • Neurology
  • Neuromuscular Diseases
  • Neuropathy
  • Nutritional Disorders
  • Obesity
  • Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)
  • Occupational Health & Safety
  • Orthopedic
  • Osteoporosis
  • Pain Management
  • Chronic Pain
  • Share Your Pain Management Story
  • Panic Disorders
  • Paralysis
  • Parenting Issues
  • Parkinson's Disease
  • Personality Disorder
  • Phobias
  • Pituitary Disease
  • Polio
  • Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS)
  • Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
  • Postpartum Depression (PPD)
  • Pregnancy
  • Share Your Pregnancy Story
  • Pregnancy Tips
  • 2010 Mommies
  • 2011 Mommies
  • Pregnancy-Teen
  • Prostatitis
  • Psoriasis
  • Rape / Sexual Abuse
  • Rare Disorders
  • Raynaud's Syndrome
  • Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy
  • Relationship Health
  • Restless Leg Syndrome
  • Rosacea
  • Sarcoidosis
  • Schizophrenia
  • Scoliosis
  • Self-injury Recovery
  • Senior Health
  • Sexual Dysfunction Treatment
  • Sexual Health - General
  • Sexual Health - Men
  • Sexual Health - Teens
  • Sexual Health - Women
  • Sexually Transmitted Diseases
  • Shingles
  • Shoulder / Rotator Cuff Problems
  • Shyness
  • Sickle Cell Anemia
  • Sinus Problems
  • Sjögren's Syndrome
  • Skin Problems
  • Sleep Disorders
  • Smoking Cessation
  • Speech & Language Disorders
  • Spinal Cord Disorders
  • Stress
  • Stroke
  • Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS)
  • Teen Health
  • Thyroid Disorders
  • TMJ Disorder -TemporoMandibular Joint
  • Tourette Syndrome
  • Transplants
  • Trigeminal Neuralgia
  • Trying to Conceive (TTC)
  • Urology
  • Vaccination & Immunization
  • Vitamins & Supplements
  • Weight Loss
  • Weight Loss / Surgical
  • West Nile Virus
  • Women's Health



  • TOP THANKED CONTRIBUTORS

    High & Low Blood Pressure

    JJ (34), Machaon (30), soflsun (22), atengnr (19), Flutterbye77 (17), zuzu8 (12), flowergirl2day (12), wolverinete (10), cartner (10), brandonb (8)

    Site Wide Totals

    thanbey (581), janewhite1 (528), BlueSkies14 (511), SpineAZ (484), DGabriel10 (464), tetonteri66 (419), mscat40 (419), jennybyc (402), sammy64 (390), jgrangran (359)

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:46 PM.



    Site owned and operated by HealthBoards.com™
    Copyright and Terms of Use © 1998-2012 HealthBoards.com™ All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!


    SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.