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Old 07-17-2007, 02:24 PM   #16
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

Lenin,
My set has about 4 hours of excellent classical and an equal amount of what they call ambient. It sounds like New Age but without any whales or other silly stuff. I actually like it better than the classical, at least for this purpose.
I don't really think rap or even Sinatra would work too well. It has to be really slow and relaxing.
My CDs are real CDs. I don't even have an mp3 player.
So far as I can tell, I think the slow rate is 6 or 7 breaths a minute. Yes, there are pauses between breaths and you can adjust yourself to it. Sorry but I don't pay much attention to the precise timing. It would be hard to figure out. But I do know the exhale is much longer than the inhale.
I'll see if I can come up with anything more.

 
Old 07-17-2007, 04:04 PM   #17
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

From what I've read about breathing exercises and reduced bps, one can achieve results simply by doing exercises 15 minutes per day for two months...the goal is to achieve 10 breaths or less per minute versus the typical 16-19 breaths per minute.

Deep breathing is important here, though...I don't know how I would define deep breathing but perhaps, like a sigh. One should take in a long COMFORTABLE breath, and take twice as long to exhale.

I say deep breathing is important based on the studies of people with sleep disorders who often experience hbp...theory is that low oxygen levels (that one experiences when one stops breathing or takes shallow breaths) reduces the amount of nitric oxide (NO) in the blood, which is important for maintaining the elasticity of the arterial walls. Another theory suggests, people who take shallow breaths do not clear their bodies of sodium as effeciently as those who take deeper breaths.

Oh, and I took my bp "normally" and got a 131/82...after taking a few deep breaths with slow exhales, reduced it to 116/69...but my understanding is that in order to maintain the lower pressures throughout the day one needs to do one's "exercises" daily.

Bsheba

 
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:23 PM   #18
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

Beth,

Great info!!! You know I did my slow deep breathing while raising my arms up the side of my body) on the inhale. Then holding my breath a few seconds with my hands together above my head. After that I slowly exhaled with pursed lips. I think I went from 160 to 135 with a small decrease in diastolic. It's been a while since I did that experiment.

I've been thinking about the sleep apnea stuff & wondering if one reason some of us have HBP is lack of oxygen during the day as well as during sleep.
If c-pap causes a decrease in b/p, why not try to use some oxygen gadget during the day. I may do an experiement. Hooking up my c-pap in the kitchen when I'm cooking etc for about an hour & see if it helps. My husband will probably freak out seeing me with a mask & tubing flowing. As you can see I would rather do most anything than taking a med. Great b/p's BTW!!!
Fam

 
Old 07-17-2007, 05:41 PM   #19
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

Hello Fam!!

Sounds like you may have learned your breathing exercise by doing some yoga! I'm not surprised that it brought the pressures down a bit...have you tried doing the breathing without the arm movement? It may be even lower. Let me know what you find out and I'll try to experiment a bit here, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by famnd View Post
...I've been thinking about the sleep apnea stuff & wondering if one reason some of us have HBP is lack of oxygen during the day as well as during sleep...
I think you may be correct in your hypothesis...before I found out I had sleep apnea, I blamed my fatigue on "lazy" breathing. What I've since learned is that 1. People are supposed to breath through their nose. 2. People who don't breath through their nose sometimes have allergies. Either way, it can lead to shallow breathing and therefore reduced oxygen levels in the blood---which in turn reduce levels of nitric oxide (which help regulate blood pressure). It may also explain why asmatics are prone to sleep disorders and why their conditons respond so favorably to cpap...mind you, I haven't researched the "WHY" part of this correlation, but the asmatics in my sleep support group attest to huge improvements in their conditions. It may also explain why nerves and stress elevate pressures as nervous people and stressed out people take shallow breaths and are told to take deep breaths to relax.

Quote:
...If c-pap causes a decrease in b/p, why not try to use some oxygen gadget during the day. I may do an experiement. Hooking up my c-pap in the kitchen when I'm cooking etc for about an hour & see if it helps. My husband will probably freak out seeing me with a mask & tubing flowing. As you can see I would rather do most anything than taking a med....Fam
Oh, would I love to see you cooking up a storm in full attire! You should try doing this before the meter man is expected to do his reading, grin! Let me know if it works! I've read that some think that one of the benefits of exercise is that it forces one to breath harder...but of course, there are other benefits as well.

Fam, I was almost down another 10 pounds in weight but pigged out yesterday...what a downer. As for the bps? They're low tonight but not always. I'm a borderline...I don't add salt but if I watched how much salt I ate, I'd probably have good control until I took off my pounds. As for the bp meds, I'm convinced that the last one interfered with my sleep so much that it elevated my pressures...I suspect the same of the other meds but I had DIFFERENT sleep problems with them...I sleep through the night now, don't wake to pee, and DONT TAKE ANY NAPS....geez, I must be a grown up again, thank goodness.

How are you doing on your weight? I must get to the pool. I'm sweating between 2-4 pounds per day and would prefer to work out under cooler conditions.

Bsheba

 
Old 07-17-2007, 08:17 PM   #20
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

I'm quilty as charged too. Felt like having some treats, but I had my nutrious stuff first. I think you need a break now & then. I can't believe you are almost down another 10 lbs. Way to go, Beth!!! Read these success stories of people losing wt & decreasing their b/p's is encouraging.

My dogs here so I better go as she is starting to feel neglected. Fam

 
Old 07-17-2007, 08:25 PM   #21
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

This is all so interesting!

Congrats on losing even more weight, Beth! Way to go!
My girlfriend gave me a book and 4CDs by the same author recently. There are many breathing exercises on those. I tried several of them and gave up. I was not patient enough to keep trying to get them right. According to the author, you should not have to push or force it or try to breathe deeply, or change the pattern, or the rhythm of your breathing. This is the part I find very difficult and where I always go wrong. I force myself to change it and then it does not work, because it isn't my natural pattern. Breathing correctly plays a big part in being able to completely relax. I don't think I'll ever attempt the yoga stuff .

After reading these posts I feel inspired and motivated enough to give the breathing exercises another try. My friend has not given up and teaches me how to breathe properly everytime I see her, hoping I'll get it right eventually. She mastered several techniques herself and makes it seem quite easy to do. I owe it to her and myself to give the breathing techniques another try.

Flowergirl

 
Old 07-18-2007, 01:19 PM   #22
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

I'm encouraged by all the interest in breathing!
Flowergirl, I don't know which CDs you are referring to (Dr. Weil?) but I always find this type of verbal instruction to be very confusing. Maybe that's why you lost patience with it. I always did too until I got Breatheasy.
This uses a "breathing" track that you simply follow along with. It's so easy. You don't really need any instructions.
It may sound weird but the breathing sound is really pleasant and mixes perfectly with the music.
I've followed all the debate on how this works but I'm afraid I don't really believe in the oxygen shortage theory. Tests done by the Buteyko people show that we actually get too much oxygen. But maybe it's irrelevant. I think the correct type of breathing works to relax the blood vessels. It's almost like I can feel it happening. Of course there may be some other physiology going on too.
As for the rate, I know the research that says anything below 10 per minute is effective but I didn't get results until well below that. And they also say that the typical person breathes around 16 breaths per minute. I think that's way off. It's more like 12. Breathing at 16 per minute will hyperventilate just about anyone.

 
Old 07-19-2007, 03:56 AM   #23
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe86 View Post
...I've followed all the debate on how this works but I'm afraid I don't really believe in the oxygen shortage theory. Tests done by the Buteyko people show that we actually get too much oxygen....
Not being familiar with the Buteyko Method, I had to do a considerable search for research of this method done by clinics, educational, institutions, and governments other than the Buteyko people. I did find one small study that suggested Buteyko may be an effective treatment for asthma (an Australian study), but that study said more research needs to be done. I found no American research literature that supported the claims of the Buteyko people...only comments that the method is subject to skeptiscism by the medical community because it lacks large controlled trials and has no explanation as to why the method works.

On the other hand, there is considerable interest in this country in the role of oxygen and high blood pressure, much of which is being studied in the relatively new field of sleep medicine. One of the largest clinical trials in this area is being conducted by the National Institute of Health---but there are research studies reported by well recognized clinics and educational instituitions as well.

Quote:
...I know the research that says anything below 10 per minute is effective but I didn't get results until well below that. And they also say that the typical person breathes around 16 breaths per minute. I think that's way off. It's more like 12. Breathing at 16 per minute will hyperventilate just about anyone.
I've read that 6 breaths per minute is very effective and is perhaps the goal..but again, one has to do the exercises regularly. And as far as the 16 breaths per minute, as we say on this board "Everybody's different!" People have different cardiovascular conditions and different cardiovascular health...what may hyperventilate some at 16 breaths per minute, may not hyperventilate others...

Bsheba

PS One piece of literature I read said that the average respirations depend somewhat on age and range from newborns who average 44 breaths per minute to older children who average 16-25 breaths per minute, to adults who average 12-20 breaths per minute.

Last edited by bethsheba; 07-19-2007 at 04:42 AM. Reason: PS

 
Old 07-19-2007, 04:07 AM   #24
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

Flowergirl,

Thanks for the hearty congratulations!! Yes, I'm pleased with the loss but disappointed in my "1 step back". I do just fine with my diet if I spend time in my garden as I forget my preoccupation with food (except for growing it of course, grin!)

My primary problem in life is inconsistency--with food, exercise, breathing, you name it...oh well, at least I enjoy variety and spontaneity!

Bsheba

 
Old 07-19-2007, 08:48 AM   #25
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Re: Yogic Deep Breathing and White Coat Syndrome

Bethsheba, you may very well be right that there is more support for oxygen as the main therapeutic element. In fact, Buteyko has been very effective in treating asthsma but that's not hypertension, is it?
However you explain it I'm just happy that this type of breathing works so well!

 
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