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Old 01-15-2008, 09:46 PM   #1
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Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

I had a history of borderline hypertension ~145/90. I went to a chiropractor for headache and neck pain. He took a thorough history and exam and x-ray. He told me that my x-ray showed missed alignment of my atlas and may be due to a couple rear-ended accidents and couple falls that I had had. He used a very gentle technique to realign my atlas (upper neck), no pop. I was amazed how good I felt after the adjustment. I noticed my blood pressure dropped significantly. 3 weeks after my first and only treatment, my BP is now 118/72.

My headache is gone, my neck pain subsided. I called him up with the happy news, and he said that he was not surprised. He said that I may only need to come in for check up but not necessary another treatment because my atlas is already in alignment. He also point out a research article on chiropractic and BP on *****.com.

Here's my summary from Pubmed.com and *****.com search:

A double blind study published in Journal of Human Hypertension 05/07 was done by George Brakis MD from Department of Preventive Medicine, Rush University Hypertension Center, Chicago shows that a special chiropractic adjustment (NUCCA) reduced bp in treatment group by -17 points +/- 9 while placebo (sham adjustment) -3 points +/- 11 systolic, and -10 points +/-11 treatment vs. -2 +/- 7 placebo for diastolic. or a net change of -14 points systolic and -8 points diastolic after removing placebo effect.

The story behind the research:
I <removed> watched a link of a news video from Chicago tonight show. I learned that a family physician, Dr. Bell MD referred thousands of patients to a chiropractor Dr. Dickholtz, DC over a period many years. Dr. Bell found that many of his patients who had hypertension before they went see Dr. Dickholtz came back with no hypertension. Dr. Bell contacted Dr. Brakis MD at Chicago Univ of Medicine to find if Dr. Brakis interested in forming a study based on this phenomone observed by Dr. Bell in his pracitice. Dr. Brakis setup the study with 50 patients sample size, 25 treatment 25 shame groups, patients were supplied by Dr. Bell. Dr. Brakis said that he was surprised when the statistician brought him the results said *****. According to Pubmed.com he study concluded that "No adverse effects were recorded. We conclude that restoration of Atlas alignment is associated with marked and sustained reductions in BP similar to the use of two-drug combination therapy." Did you see the word SUSTAIN???? Can it be that one adjustment cuts blood pressure and sustain it at 8 weeks following treatment? I'm hopeful. In the video, Dr. Brakis went on and said that this chiropractic procedure works on a subgroup of hypertension, someone who had a previous history of trauma to the neck (e.g. car accident, slip and fall, sport injuries, etc.) that cause atlas misalignment. I wonder how many of us slip and fall and don't remember? I barely remembered mine. There is a specific screen test developed to identify qualified patients for atlas misalignment. Dr. Bell went on and said that quite many patients of the original 25 in treatment group have their BP lowered and sustained longer than the 8 weeks (2 months) recorded in the study from one single adjustment. I am amazed. Has anyone else experienced this???

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Old 01-16-2008, 04:13 AM   #2
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

I've heard of this before but have no personal experience with it. I would be very afraid for to have that treatment. Who knows it may be helpful in the long run for some pts. I would see an MD before having that kind of treatment because manipulating that part of the body could result in serious impairment. Fam

 
Old 01-17-2008, 11:08 PM   #3
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Eddie,
I noticed that ***** article over the summer but never had the guts to go to a chiropractor. I'm glad to hear that it worked out for you. Did you see a special type of chiropractor?

 
Old 01-17-2008, 11:21 PM   #4
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Eddie,

I know one such doctor. He is truly amazing! You can crawl into his office in terrible pain on your knees and (depending on the problem) walk out feeling absolutely no pain after an alignment. This method of treatment is used for some back/neck problems. I don't know what - if anything - it might do for the blood pressure control. I haven't read the article you refer to yet.

FG.

 
Old 01-18-2008, 11:15 AM   #5
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

2muchdrugs28 brought this study [sic] to our attention on this board in June of last year so you might want to check out some of the posts there.

I will repeat myself, somewhat....a study of 50 people is not a study, but simply a "pilot" to see if there is anything worth studying.

The participants of this pilot had early stage hypertension (pre-hypertension?), and were not taking medications for hypertension. I did not review the data in the professional journal so I do not know what the actual pressures of these people were. According to the material I did review, their average systolic pressure dropped 14 points, and their average diastolic dropped 8 points in eight weeks. BUT similar/better average systolic bp reduction ranges can be achieved with weight reduction (5-20 mmHg /10kg), DASH eating (8-14 mmHg), sodium reduction (4-9 mmHg), and moderate alcohol consumption (2-4 mmHg). I would like to note that people on the DASH diet noticed drops within 2 weeks....I would also like to note that a change in lifestyle wouldn't incur addtional costs or unnecessary risks for the individual.

Interestingly enough, despite the many scientists, doctors, and other health professionals interested and invested in hypertension management, the only interest in this pilot seems to be coming from the chiropractic community (who would directly benefit from this kind of publicity.) I would think more health care professionals would show an interest in this pilot if they thought it was worth investigating (although apparently federal money will be spent for the upcoming clinical study).

If I was interested in trying this treatment (and I'm not), I would enroll in the actual clinical study scheduled for this year. That way I would, at least, have the benefit of an experiment that is scienfically monitored and controlled. But, signing up for another study is another post.

Bethsheba

Oh, and if you want to find out more about this pilot, the doctor's name is George BAKRIS, and not Brakis...

Last edited by bethsheba; 01-18-2008 at 02:47 PM.

 
Old 01-18-2008, 09:00 PM   #6
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Hi Beth,

Thanks very much for that information and saving us some time by looking into this. I enjoy your insights and comments. I believe blood pressure regulation is much more complex than believed. I also don't see how any of the endogenous BP regulators - the baroreceptors, renin-angiotensin system and the aldosterone release by the adrenals could be affected by any type of neck manipulation. I am sure there's some explanation given in the article.

By the time I was told about this doctor, I'd had a number of conventional chiropractic treatments with zero success rate. My back pain was horrific. I needed help getting into the doctors' office. After taking and reviewing the x-rays the doctor informed me that I would benefit from the alignment and could be treated. I was. I am glad there are doctors out there who specialize in this method of treatment. I believe these alignments work well for SOME people in treating SOME back and neck problems. I doubt they'd do much for a high blood pressure.

flowergirl

 
Old 01-19-2008, 08:12 AM   #7
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by flowergirl2day View Post
... I believe blood pressure regulation is much more complex than believed. I also don't see how any of the endogenous BP regulators - the baroreceptors, renin-angiotensin system and the aldosterone release by the adrenals could be affected by any type of neck manipulation. I am sure there's some explanation given in the article....
Yes, it is much more complex than believed, at least believed by the average person. I know I certainly have learned how much it can impact me. Although I don't understand how any of the regulators could be affected by neck manipulation, some people think there may be a correlation and this will be studied by credible scientists. I try to keep an open mind about these things...it may very well be that some type of injury to the neck area impacts directly/indirectly the regulation of blood pressure, which is what the people interested in this procedure theorize. BUT, we'll have to wait and see. My main concern here is that people will forego tested and proven therapies with the hope that the manipulation will help them. Or they will benefit by traditional therapies and credit the manipulation, giving others false hope.

Again, I think we need to keep an open mind about these things, but like traditional drug therapy, we need to know the risks before hand. Based on my experience, we're still guinea pigs even if the drugs have been "well tested".

Quote:
...I believe these alignments work well for SOME people in treating SOME back and neck problems. I doubt they'd do much for a high blood pressure....flowergirl
Yes, and if you're the person it works for, it would be worth it!!! ..but again, like anything else, one should look at the costs, the risks, and the benefits before making a decision.

I'm glad your manipulations helped flowergirl...hope you're doing ok.

Bethsheba

PS Didn't sleep with my cpap for a few nights (humdifier isn't working) and my pressures were 136/99 this am...must get going and get it fixed but it costs money...of course there's always EXCERCISE, .

 
Old 01-19-2008, 12:13 PM   #8
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

I've gone to three chiropractors. The current one I go to is one I would feel comfortable trying out the atlas or C-1 adjustment for hbp because he uses this small instrument that pushes parts of the spine in such a subtle way. Just as there are different companies that make herbs, some I find more credible than others, there are MDs and DCs I find more talented/skillful than others.

I found the original study cited in the article and will show the abstract to my chiropractor. I find this thread very interesting.

 
Old 01-19-2008, 02:41 PM   #9
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Mountainrain,

Just be careful and inform yourself about the possible risks beforehand. You might change your mind about wanting to try it. I hope your chiropractor if familiar with your health history and back problems (if any) and has had a lot of practice in this. Finding doctors who specialize in this procedure is not easy. Where I live, there are only two (one has just retired which leaves only one actually). The wait for an appointment can be very long. I am pretty sure special training and/or certification is required for this type of manipulation. You should look into it when doing your research.

flowergirl

 
Old 01-20-2008, 01:12 AM   #10
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Well, I hope this belongs here. While watching mystery diagnosis tonight I thought of this thread. A 26yr old woman had a very minor fall on the slopes. She didn't think much of it but several month or weeks later, she had a stroke. It seems one of her carotid arteries was torn slightly & blood started seeping into the inner part of the arteries & finally clotted & blocked off the blood supply to her brain & caused a stroke. The carotid arteries are in the neck & supply blood & oxygen to the brain.

She had a 2nd stroke & then a heart attack. She ended up having to have 1/2 of her brain removed because of swelling & infections.
The bottom line is that the Dr. said although her accident may have looked very minor she probably twisted her neck quickly in the fall plus hit her head which caused the carotid artery to tear.

So be very cautious when someone even a Dr. says he is going to cure your hypertension by maniplulating your neck. Fam

 
Old 01-20-2008, 08:13 AM   #11
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Thank you for the story, famnd. I think it is good to hear stories about the harm, the caution and also about the success (or possible success) of a procedure.

For me, the issue is more about effectiveness.
The question for me is this--does this subtle manipulation of the atlas or C1 really help with hbp or is it a waste of time and money? I really would like to hear from the profession as well as from an independent party, in the interest of fairness and also in the hope for a drug free support. When it comes to hbp drugs, we are also shooting arrows towards a target. I see this as another one arrow. Like my need to understand a drug, I also want to understand this procedure a bit more.

I have going to the same chiropractor for over 5 years. I can say that the "cracking" usually attributed to the practice is not really done very much by most "modern" chiropractors. When my DC needs to do something in the neck area, he uses this instrument with a spring to move or activate nerves. It is still a mechanical manipulation, but very very small.

Chiropractic helped me with a knee injury. By manipulating my lumbar 5 vertebra in the back, a small muscle near my knee became more responsive. So I now want to know where nerves in the base of the head lead to and if this affects blood pressure.

Last edited by Mountainrain; 01-20-2008 at 08:22 AM.

 
Old 01-20-2008, 10:24 AM   #12
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

I'm all for drug free treatment for HBP. Were you on the board about 6 months ago when I talked about the pace maker device for HPB that fits under the skin near the collarbone? Anyhow I went ahead & called the company that is making the device. They are in the 2nd phrase of FDA trial all over the country. They called me about a month ago & said that they need more patients as some who signed up didn't meet their criteria. I had asked to be notified if there are any new b/p treatments. I don't think I will do the present device because of my surgical risks with Latex allergy etc.

Keep us posted of your findings. Fam

 
Old 01-20-2008, 10:31 PM   #13
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

I will look for your post from the past, famnd. I've only been around for a couple of months. I will post an update when I get more info or results on the treatment on this thread and my HBP.


Mountainrain

 
Old 01-22-2008, 11:04 PM   #14
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

I had my spine re-checked 2 days ago. My chiropractor told me that my atlas is holding so he didn't adjust me. I paid for the office exam. My blood pressure is 110s/70s. I am happy. I asked my chiropractor if chiropractic adjustment in general work for hypertension. He said no, only a selected group of individuals with hypertension benefit from a specific type of chiropractic technique/procedure. I asked him how did he know if I benefit from it. He said that the good new is there is a specific screening test for it, follow by precision x-ray procedure to determine if my atlas is out of place. He said that if my screening test and x-ray identified that I belonged to that subgroup, my probability of receiving benefits from an atlas adjustment increase significantly. I asked if my atlas is out of placed, will any neck adjustment work the same? He said no. He pointed to that study which showed 25 patients received specific NUCCA (National Upper Cervical Chiropractic Association) atlas adjustment while 25 patients in placebo group also received neck adjustment (sham adjustment) a couple bone below the atlas. The results showed that NUCCA adjustment works better than sham adjustment. I asked him if he performed NUCCA on me? He said yes. I asked him if there are serious complications involve in neck adjustment? He asked me what specific complications I have in mind. I said stroke. He said that the risk of stroke is extremely rare, 1 in 1 to 5 millions associated (but not definite) with neck adjustment depend the sources of standard literatures. He asked me if I know anyone stroked out after a neck adjustment. I said no. I only heard it in some chatrooms on internet. He asked if I know how many adjustment chiropractors in the US delivered a day? I'm not sured. He said that there are about 60,000 chiropractors in the US and assume an avg day they see 20 patients each, that would be 1.2 millions adjustment a day, and in a year 300 million adjustments delivered. He asked me if how many cases of stroke i heard since last year? I said that I heard one or two cases mentioned repetitively, other than that, not much else. I walked a way with a good experience, and feel very safe under his care. I have a followup exam with him 2 months from now.

I just purchased an original article of the research from the Journal of Human Hypertension May 2007. After I read it, I will post my summary.

 
Old 01-24-2008, 03:32 PM   #15
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Re: Warning: "Chiropractic Cuts Blood Pressure" said *****.com

Eddie007,

How much did it cost you to get treatment for HBP from a chiropractor? I just would like to know the ballpark figure for the initial examination and followup visits.

thanks

 
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