Greetings, Please help.
I've been hypertensive over 25 years with blood pressure under control with and behavior modification. Now my pressure is out of wack with meds. I was taken off of vaseoretic (which worked well at the time)because of severe cough and some other meds because of adverse reactions. Each years seems as if my pressure is getting higher. It also seems that since I have stopped drinking a pint of milk a day that my pressure as gone up. I am now taking Micardis 80mg, Verapamil 240mg, low asprin, (daily in the morning) Cardura 8mg (nightly), Lasix 80mg only as needed for adema which is about once a week since i have reduced sodium intake. Within the last 6 months, my pressure has gone from 120/80 to fluctuating between 140/90 - 163/110. Dr. has tried addding Norvasc 10 mg, it lowered my pressure but gave me muscle pains and caused wheezing so it was stopped. We tried the verapamil twice daily and it caused chest pains so it was stopped. We tried adding a 4mg to the 8mg Cardura and I became too sedated, so it was stopped. I've tried Bystollic (caused wheezing and bad feeling). Since I am so senstive, the Dr. tried Clonidine .01 for two weeks then ..02. After taking one pill of the .01 with my other meds, I became so out of it--I lost my desire to eat, I had laboured breathing and I nodded all day when I was not actually sleep. I could not leave the house. I did not take another. I am now awaiting orders from the Dr. I am so afraid. Is this normal reactions to Clonidine? I am asthmatic and take Levoxyl for hypothyrodism. I have been on 5 mgs prednisone for 4-5 years for SLE and the asthma. Can this be an issue with my blood pressure. Thank you for any help
You got that right, Clonidine is a b/p med disquised as a b/p med
Do you get the mental cloudiness too for a 2-3 hrs? It is very addictive & very difficult to stop taking it without severe withdrawal.
Clonidine does have it's place but is not for anyone who wants any kind of life.
Have you revamped your diet & tried the DASH diet for HBP? What about exercise? No smoking I hope. Need to lose weight? I still haven't accomplished that!!!
Taking a steriod will most certainly raise your b/p. Fam
I am surprised you do not take any diuretic as your first-line antihypertensive!!!
When people go to hypertension clinics seeking help for their uncontrollable/drug resistant high blood pressure, a DIURETIC is the first place the doctors look when reviewing their existing drug therapy.
You take a loop diuretic on as needed basis. It is one that's not regularly used for high blood pressure control - though it certainly helps relieve edema. This one is used usually only for brief periods of time, quite often by people with CHF, because it is so effective. It is also very potent and can be harmful if used excessively - causing an electrolyte imbalance.
In my opinion, you should be on a regular dose of a diuretic, such as Hctz. Even a fairly small dose would make a huge difference in your blood pressure control. You would not need as many drugs to control your blood pressure. Did you know that increasing the doses of most drugs past a certain point will make no difference in blood pressure control whatsoever? I got to see it firsthand recently when for some strange reason I started getting consistently hypotensive readings. (I still am, but my doctor thinks they are great). As a result of my newly LOW readings, and fearing further reductions in blood pressure, I reduced my dose of the ACE inhibitor and another one of my drugs.
I strongly resisted going back to my regular full dose of both, when directed to by my doctor, fearing severe hypotension. He assured me that my blood pressure would remain UNCHANGED, because my regular dosing of these drugs exceeded the optimal therapeutic doses. (Besides the blood pressure control, these drugs are used for other indications, thus the high dosing). Anyway, it sure was interesting to see!!! Of course, the doctor was right and my blood pressure has remained unchanged in spite of the increased dosing.
As you and I both know, the more drugs a person takes, the more side effects there are to deal with. Seriously, I feel for you as I am in the same shoes and know exactly what it's like. Try to find the therapy that's best for you. You should ask your doctor if there's a reason you are not on a regular diuretic. Get rid of the Lasix, if your edema is not a big problem. Mine is. I don't use Lasix. I am on two diuretics, Hctz and Spironolactone. They don't do anything for the edema. I just put up with it.
Have you tried taking an ACE and Hctz concurrently? If not, you should. I think we develop a resistance to some of our drugs over a period of time - a good reason to try new ones!
flowergirl
Last edited by flowergirl2day; 08-01-2008 at 08:03 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to flowergirl2day For This Useful Post: baska (03-17-2012)
Given your history it's understandable you'd be afraid of meds.
Although diuretics may be the first line of defence for hypertensives with a simple health history, someone with SLE, hypothyroidism, and asthma does not have a simple health history. And given the terrible breathing problems that diurectics can cause, it isn't surprising you're taking other bp meds instead.
My thoughts? Your other sle and asthma medications and other conditions are creating your problems with blood pressure...address those conditions differently (with different meds and/or different dosages) instead of meds for blood pressure...and do some reading about the DASH diet, the importance of CALCIUM, magnesium, and potassium for controlling blood pressure, and the Mediteranean (spelling?) which is similar to the DASH diet for asthma. Note: these are not weight loss diets...nor are they gimmicks...but researched by a respected scientific community.
In my opinion, your doctors are prescribing pills for blood pressure instead of treating your other conditions differently keeping your bp levels in mind.
greetings once again. thank you all for your responses. i must say they have helped to put my mind at ease. Bethsheba and Famnd, i believe you both have hit the nail on the head with your assessment. when my blood pressure begain to rise so high, my pulmonary dr. said that we must try and get me off of the prednisone. not only does it cause hypertension, it can also raise glucose and cholesterol levels--i hate it. i am not sure if the plaquenil is having any adverse affects. i have looked up the DASH diet and so far it is very close to the way i eat. since on the prednisone, i have gained over 75lbs. i have become more conscious of what i eat and drink and have lost 26 pounds within the past 3 months. however my blood pressure seems to be rising. i am continuing to work on weight loss. Flowergirl, i was allergic to Maxide at that point my dr. switched me to Lasix. at the onset i took 20mgs daily. the dr. has tried me on so many other meds that did not agree with me. i called the dr. and told him of my experience with the clonidine. he then told me to try the verapamil again because the symptoms i had taking it twice daily was very unusual for verapamil. so now it is day two of me taking the verapamil twice daily and thus far--ok. i hope this works as i continue to work on all other aspects of my health--smile. Bethsheba, Famnd, Flowergirl, thank you all so very much. i shall keep you posted, as two days on a med is not much to know the outcome...smile...peace
oops..also, i eat potassium enriched foods. when taking the lasix, i take 40 mgs of potassium prescribed by my dr. i must look into the magnesium. how much should i take as a supplement? what do you think of CoQ10? should i take that also?
A new medication has been added to my assortment to help deal with an acute problem. Guess what it is?.....Lasix. How ironic is that?
So far, it has not made any difference whatsoever. I am in the bathroom every 15 minutes though, being on three diuretics now.
I thought it served me right for having made that suggestion in an earlier post to dump the Lasix.
Is your b/p still so low? Does the DR. have an explanation? I feel for you having to take another diuretic. Hope you have a pretty bathroom at home . It's always something isn't it? Fam
My bathroom could use some updating! I might as well just move in. Having to go all the time is really quite annoying. Especially at work!
I just phoned the hospital to book the tests. I have to wait three weeks...and go in twice, because they don't have a long enough time slot open to do both. That is ridiculous. The only way to get the tests done sooner is to go through emergency. I wonder what my doctor will decide on next. There is a chance things will return back to normal by the end of the week.
My blood pressure is holding (low 100/70s to 125/80). It's never been better! Strangely, there's been no change in blood pressure in the four days with the additional diuretic. It is potent and has not affected my blood pressure at all. I am curious, and will try to find out why. I won't be taking it long, anyway, since it isn't helping with the swelling. The last couple of weeks have been pretty bad for me. Now things can only get better.
I am glad I don't have to worry about my blood pressure though. That is a huge relief.
A new medication has been added to my assortment to help deal with an acute problem. Guess what it is?.....Lasix. How ironic is that?
So far, it has not made any difference whatsoever. I am in the bathroom every 15 minutes though, being on three diuretics now.
I thought it served me right for having made that suggestion in an earlier post to dump the Lasix.
FG
greetings flowergirl
i am so sorry that you have to add another med to your list. maybe the doctor has added the lasix to prevent fluid retention around the heart. although it may not be lowering your pressure, it is relieving you of extra fluid in your body that can cause damage. after a while of use, you will no longer have the running to the bathroom, or loosing rest because you have to relieve yourself. once i deleted sodas totally from my diet and cut back on sodium in foods, i rarely have edema or have to use the bathroom more than 4-5 times daily. did your dr. add the klor-con/potassuim supplement?
as of today, i am taking double dose of the verapamil. (verapamil 240 mgs twice daily along with the micardis 80 mg, cardura 8mg and lasix 80 mg 1xs daily as needed; levoxyl 25 mcg daily, albuterol, qvar 80 mcg 2 puffs 2xs daily, low aspirin 1x daily, prednisone 5 mg daily, plaquenil 200 mgs 2xs daily, vitamin c 500 mgs daily, vitamin b-12 shot monthly. i feel fine on the verapamil, but i have noticed that since started it twice daily, i have had bloody mucous from my left nostril. i have problems with chronic sinusitis and wonder if the blood is from the added verapamil or just my sinus.
Several. The first two I need done ASAP are the abdominal and pelvic ultrasounds. Then the upper and lower GI scopes. My stomach is huge and I am anemic. I don't think it's connected to my peripheral edema. I am also in pain and can hardly walk. So, basically, a fishing expedition...It will be fun, especially the scopes!
I can't take any potassium supplements, because of a reduced kidney function. Yanni, you sound just like me!!!! Don't you wish we could just flush our meds down the toilet.......My hubby says all my problems are a result of taking all these meds. What a scary thought.
flowergirl
Last edited by flowergirl2day; 08-05-2008 at 06:15 PM.
-smile- You have such a wonderful attitude Flowergirl. I pray that all will be well for you. I believe the meds create so many more problems while helping others. I blame everything on the years of taking meds for the SLE. So far I don't think the added verapamil is working as expected. I'm getting a slight sharp pain in my head on the right side followed by bloody mucous out of my right nostril--sometimes no pain at all, just the bloody mucous from the right nostril. I have chronic sinusitis, but I do not seem to have this problem when not taking the extra verapamil. Any thoughts? Oh well -sigh-
Remember I got anemia from being on Cozaar for 13 days-wonder if yours is from one of your b/p meds. I can't remember the red flags with Lasix but I know after reading about about it, I didn't want to take it.
What symptoms othe than the edema are you having? Are your hands swollen too?
My rash is getting a little better since I have been taking a sun bath three times a week for 15 min. Heard Dr. Oz say that that amount of time results in a lot of Vit D making in the skin. I'm adding up my calcium & Vit D intake so that I will be armed when I see my Endo in a few wks. He always wants me to take more as he can't believe that I consume so much because of my dairy intake.
I'm going to read my Derm book cover to cover. My PC won't do a skin screening for cancer either-my Derm won't until the rash clears up. It's been two yrs-give me a break!!! My PC did say that she would look at maybe one or two lesions. Then we hear all the commercials about getting skin checks.
Hope your tests should something that can relieve your health issues. Fam
Unfortunately, the types of problems you describe are difficult to avoid for those of us who take numerous medications.
Since your hypertension has been treated for 25 years, and your current blood pressure readings are less than ideal, I think you don't have the option of giving up your antihypertensive medication in favor of a healthier lifestyle and an improved diet. I'll bet you eat healthy food and have been for some time...most responsible people alter both right after their hypertension is diagnosed and before any medication is prescribed.
The remaining option is fine-tuning your existing drug therapy. This can be done in several ways. Some drugs can be eliminated and new ones added. Dosing adjustments can be made to the remaining drugs.
Certain drugs we take are essential to the success of the therapy, and often cannot be downtitrated or completely eliminated. I think that in your case it is Prednisone.
This drug is causing you a number of problems you might not even be aware of. It has the highest number of interactions with your other medications. You'd be shocked to see just how many interactions there are. The number of interactions increases with the number of drugs. Unfortunately, you need the Prednisone for your SLE, as well as your asthma. You probably take a higher therapeutic dose because you're treating two conditions with it. (I take several meds like that in high doses). Most likely, that medication must remain a part of your therapy. I know you tried a beta blocker and Amlodipine. I am not surprised you didn't like them. They each interact with more than one of your other meds and are contraindicated due to your other health problems. Also, if you have any cardiological issues, (probably even if you don't) the CCBs might not be best for you, simply because you take so many other drugs. They have additive effects -one enhances the effects of another, resulting in hypotension, reduction in heart rate, changes in conduction and contractility, etc. The serum concentrations of the drugs can markedly increase, thus intensifying the side effects and causing other problems. I have big issues with these drugs (CCBs), but take mine faithfully.
One drug I don't see listed is an ACE inhibitor. You'll probably say you'd tried it and had no luck with it (Did it make you cough?)
The problem is, there are not that many remaining drug classes to pick the meds from. One of my doctors said we'd run out of options when figuring out what new drug to give me. Luckily, my blood pressure is perfect right now and no change in medications is needed. You must get yours under control! I don't have any suggestions as to how you might go about it. I will give it some thought and if I can think of anything, I'll post it. I think that treating patients like us may pose quite a challenge for our doctors!!! I believe that the key to success is the right drug combination. Since you take medication that causes elevations in the blood pressure, it might take a while to find one that will offset its negative effect on your blood pressure in just the right way.
I was very surprised to learn that anemia is found in over 50% of people with SLE. Do you have it by any chance? I am quite shocked, actually. I have to find out more. We are looking for the cause of mine so that a treatment can be started. I am looking into the possible causes of anemia. Just another condition I know absolutely nothing about.
P.S. I had a much beter day today. Lasix is not the answer though. My doctor did not think it would help. It looks as if he may have been right. I did not resarch this drug and don't know how long it takes to be effective. Perhaps I should, even though I do not anticipate staying on it for long.
take care,
flowergirl
Last edited by flowergirl2day; 08-06-2008 at 11:05 PM.
You would think we should be used to living with rashes by now. A rash lasting two whole years is much more than a nuisance. How horrible! I hope you'll be able to get rid of it some day in not so distant future.
I am rash-free momentarily. (For how long remains to be seen ). I have some interesting skin markings on my forearm. Looking at it, you would think I've had an intriguing design painted on my forearm with henna dye, just like some women who paint the tops of their hands with it. I don't know what the heck it is, but it's not in our derma book. I'll look again just in case I somehow missed it. I think it is from anemia. Well, at least I am putting the book to a good use! I knew I would.
As for the symptoms, I won't list them all, but here are several that bug me - my peripheral edema is worse, (than usual) my nausea is much worse, reflux symptoms worse. My hands swell often but not too badly. Just enough so that I can't get my rings on. I have OA in my fingers I learned recently. For five days, I had very sharp pain in my side, making it difficult to walk. Each step hurt. Not there today...just a dull, slightly achy feeling. I look ready to deliver a baby any moment, (walking around looking like this is what bothers me the most!!!) I think that is the most awful part for me. I look really fat. I'd gone from looking normal (except for a not so bad spare tire and not so bad (compared to now) leg swelling, which I hide by wearing long pants) to looking like an elephant, in the space of several days. This was a couple of weeks ago. Trying to hide my stomach is useless. In desperation, I even thought of shopping for maternity clothes. A pair of dress pants and a couple of tops would come in handy. Geez. At my age (though I don't look it) I am not a good candidate for having a baby. The next person that asks me when my baby is due is gonna get it!!! You will probably think I must be experiencing some mental fogginess...or have consumed something I shouldn't have had..... Seriously, being pregnant is one thing that I don't need to worry about. It's got to be something else. I seem to be having all the symptoms though, including an achy back from all the extra weight. I find myself patting my belly when no one is looking, like I used to when i was pregnant so many years ago. How is that for mental fogginess...Good thing I have the drugs to blame for it!!!
I learned that Nexium (which I take) and similar drugs can cause anemia by inhibiting the acid production. Acid is needed for an iron absorption. There are many other drugs that could be interfering with the iron absorption. I am just starting to learn about anemia.
greetings,
flowergirl thank you for you responses. i hope you are feeling better today. the edema was in my hands and ankles. i called the cardiologist dr. he said to stop the douible dose of the verapamil and continue to take the one dose. he was surprised of the nose bleed. he said to just continue to take what i am taking and he will see me at my next appointment. i saw my PC dr. concerning the sinus infection and was again asked to take the tekturna for my hypertension. 150 mg daily to be added to my present regime.
i have cold feet and praying. what i have read of the tekturna, it really scares me, but it may just work for me. sigh... i have to really think about this.
Here is a book you might want to add to your growing collection. Anemia-The Iron Disorders Institute Guide to Anemia. It certainly helped me when I developed anemia from Cozzar.
You might want to start cooking with an iron skillet as it adds a little iron to food. I switched to eating a hamburger (organic etc etc) a day when I develped anemia. I gagged everytime I ate it as I have eaten vegetarian for about 30 plus years. It took about 2 yrs for my hemoglobin to go back up. I only lasted for 2 months on the hamburger.
I looked quickly this AM in the book. One thing it said was the importance of not taking iron supplements unless one has a diagnosis of confirmed iron deficiency anemia. I guess supplemental iron can feed bacteria & possibly cancer cells. Our Too much iron can hurt the heart. If there is something you would like me to look up, I would be glad too.
The book is about $16 & takes a fork-lift to move Oh & its 2,003.
Do you have pain in your wrists, upper arms, & shoulders? Just checking to make sure you don't have drug induced Lupus like I had from Cozaar. Fam
I too have just had a new med added, and a dose of an existing one increased. I just finished reading the pharmacy printout about the new drug. It says there that not all side efects are listed. (Why not???) I know this drug is going to make me sick (though it should help with some other issues) and, for that reason, don't really want to take it. I have a lot more reading to do about it before I decide whether to take it in the morning or not. The printout says that taking this drug (a dopamine receptor antagonist) can have fatal consequences on the nervous system in some people. (???!!!) It just makes me wonder how badly I really need it, and if I might be better off not taking it at all. I'd rather be alive with side effects, than dead without them.
I feel about the same (perhaps a little bit bigger than yesterday), but not bad overall. I am still a bit worried about the yet to be determined reason for the swelling. I will be off work for a few days, then get some labwork and tests done (hopefully). The funny thing is, while waiting for my prescription to be filled, I talked to a young lady I know. One of her friends, who has asthma, had a problem similar to mine - a lot of swelling in the stomach area (a 50 pound gain) over a short period of time. Turns out a steroid she had been taking for her asthma had caused it. I don't know what was done to clear that up. The point is, our drugs sometimes cause this type of a swelling (and other problems). I do not take any steroids, though I did briefly last year, for asthma.
Yanni, I hope that your sinuses start feeling less congested soon. I am hoping that Tekturna agrees with you. Would you please stay in touch and inform us about your progress and the ups and downs of treating hypertension with Tekturna? It is a new drug classs and it will be interesting to hear from someone actually taking it.
Who prescribes your meds most of the time? I find that my doctors are very reluctant to make any changes to the existing drug therapy, even if they question the use of some of the drugs. They figure if it seems to be working, why rock the boat? (I think.) Yet everyone has asked who prescribes my meds. Then they just say....hmmmmm...and that's it. Why do they ask? It makes me wonder. Believe it or not, a cardiologist insisted that beta blockers do not cause shortness of breath, when I begged him last year to take me off off them because I could not breathe. He lied, instead of switching me to something else or recommending that it be done. What does that tell you? Never believe everything they say. Sorry if I sound like a pessimist. I don't want to come across as one, because that is not my true nature. This is just a practical advice, based on a personal observation, for someone who is in the same shoes.
I should have the book within a few weeks. Thank you for the recommendation! Because this is new to me, I have no knowledge of this condition whatsoever. This book should prove very helpful. It has 480 pages and was published in late 2002.
Did you know that more than 40 drugs can cause Lupus to develop? That is a pretty serious blood and autoimmune system disorder, which, among other things, has anemia as one of its symptoms. I mentioned that already in another post, and am repeating myself. BUT, I am doing it for a good reason: I am pretty mad that the drugs we are given to treat one condition can cause OTHER disorders, making us SICKER. I hope that everyone is aware of the possible consequences of taking drugs for treating any condition. They can also do us harm. Reading about the drugs that cause Lupus and other diseases when taken to treat another condition made me so angry! Why are these drugs on the market?
Though I do not wish this on anyone, in a way I am glad you've been through the wringer yourself and can share helpful tips. It helps to know that these things also happen to others.
I bought fresh beef and spinach a few days ago and cooked that. I ate a little bit of the beef, wondering what my cholesterol would be like when next tested. I am finding it hard to eat more meat. Too bad it has to be the RED meat!!! The kind I've been staying away from. I have a cast iron frying pan, which never gets used. I will cook something in it. Spinach, maybe? That goes down better than the meat.
My hemoglobin is borderline, but ferritin is only 6. That is very low. How low did yours get? Anyway, I can only worry about one thing at a time. Right now, it's my belly. I am not very hungry - not much room there.
P.S. I forgot to mention the joints. Luckily, it's just the fingers on the hands (two) that are affected. Very early stages. So, it is not too bad. Unfortunately, I have no idea whether the hip pain I often get is connected to osteoarthritis, or a side effect of medication. How did you find out about your Lupus, and that Cozaar was responsible for it? Lupus is difficult to diagnose, I read.
Your help is much appreciated. Thank you!
flowergirl
Last edited by flowergirl2day; 08-09-2008 at 08:20 AM.
Reason: Adding P.S.
