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Old 10-25-2008, 10:01 AM   #1
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Perplexed About My High Blood Pressure

Hi everyone.

For the bulk of my life I have not had high blood pressure. It has only been over the last couple of years that it has at times gone sky high.

I might say that my recent baseline has been about 140/90, but many times, especially in the afternoon or late morning, it can rocket up to 160/110, while sometimes in the morning it can drop to as low as 125/82. My blood pressure is mostly lower in the morning and higher in the afternoon, although this is not always the case.

Aside from my wildly vacillating blood pressure, my biggest concern is that the traditional methods for lowering blood pressure seem to have no effect at all on me.

For example, because my blood sugar was also slightly high, I have converted over to a diabeticís diet, and that is supposed to be good for lowering blood pressure as well. However, in addition, I have reduced calories, and have lost about 13 pounds so far, and I have stepped up my exercise, although I have always pretty much exercised regularly anyway. Iím eating so many vegetables and fruits for my carbohydrates now, that I almost smell like vegetables.

I have been on this new diet for about 4 weeks so far, and I have been exercising all of my life, including both aerobic and strength type exercises. My motherís father had high blood pressure, and my mother and her brother also have it, but my father has low blood pressure.

I am 57 years old. So far, this new approach has had zero effect upon my blood pressure, so I also tried a diuretic. This too had no effect on my blood pressure, and I felt like crap on it, so I quit using it.

I take supplements like a good mult-vitamin, along with separate B-Complex, magnesium, potassium, Coenzyme Q, Spirulina, and a few other things. Still, no reduction in blood pressure.

I monitor myself with a deluxe OMRON wrist blood pressure monitor. Whenever Iím in the doctorís office, Iím always much closer to my baseline, and never in the very high range, so the doctor is skeptical about my allegations that sometimes my blood pressure goes very high.

I know my monitor is pretty accurate though, because I have had high readings from other commercial blood pressure monitors that mirror my own readings I take at home.

The only thing that seems to temporarily bring down my blood pressure is something I take called BP Manager. It is an herb complex. However, I have to take it throughout the day in order to see any reduction, and as soon as I stop taking it, my blood pressure goes right back up again.

I am at a total loss as to what I should try or do next. Maybe I need to allow more time to see the benefits of the dietary changes?

If anyone has any ideas at all for me, it would be much appreciated.

I was shocked to discover that very little is truly known in the medical and scientific fields concerning the causes of high blood pressure.

Thanks!

LD

 
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Old 10-25-2008, 04:39 PM   #2
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Re: Perplexed About My High Blood Pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by conanld View Post
For example, because my blood sugar was also slightly high, I have converted over to a diabeticís diet, and that is supposed to be good for lowering blood pressure as well.
I had been fighting chronically high blood pressure for many years. I thought that, because I had heart failure, it was causing my high blood pressure, and there was nothing I could do to lower my unhealthy blood pressure. I was wrong. While Heart Failure does result in higher blood pressure, if the other causes of high blood pressure are eliminated, and the most effective blood pressure medication is used, even someone like me, close to age 70, with Heart Failure, can obtain very healthy levels of blood pressure, which, in turn stops Heart Failure from getting progressively worse.

In 2004 I started a diet for the first time, and it reduced my blood pressure, but not enough. I then went on a stricter diet targeting Insulin Resistance, which was much more effective at lowering my blood pressure.

I started documenting my progress with the diet on a thread, in January 2005, here titled: Does an "Insulin Resistance" diet improve blood pressure?

If you are interested in reading through that thread, you can copy the following link and paste into into your browser window: http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=242229

Quote:
If anyone has any ideas at all for me, it would be much appreciated.
I took my blood pressure an average of seven times per day, from 1998 through 2008, and have amassed over 25,000 readings with comments documenting my struggle. I've started a thread under Heart Disorders, titled: "The four essential steps, that I've taken, that help me live with Heart Failure", which documents what I've found out, over the past four years, during which time I was able to lower my blood pressure from chronically high, 24 hours per day, to very healthy levels 24 hours per day, all day long. My blood pressure from 1998 through 2004 averaged 147/93, based on almost 15,000 blood pressure readings. For all of 2007, my blood pressure averaged 126/74 based on 2720 readings. And..... my average, daily blood pressure for 2008 is 121/72, based on 1887 readings.


Quote:
I was shocked to discover that very little is truly known in the medical and scientific fields concerning the causes of high blood pressure.
Doctors DO know, or they are just incompetent. The drug companies tell doctors exactly what causes higher blood pressure, because they make blood pressure medication that tries to calm the over-active Immune System. If you examine the names of the blood pressure medication, you'll notice that they are either blockers or inhibitors. That begs the question, Blockers or Inhibitors of what? The answer: Of hormones produced by one's Immune System.

Or, in the case of diuretics, doctors try to reduce blood pressure by reducing blood volume. But, diuretics can cause other health problems and can have nasty side effects.

Doctors almost NEVER try to research or analyze why their patient's Immune System is over-reactive. Instead, doctors throw multiple medications at their patients, which to me, most of the time, just makes things worse. The drug companies don't test all the different combinations of drugs to determine which drugs are good to combine, and which ones aren't. So, in essence, by throwing multiple meds at their patients, doctors are playing Russian Roulette with their patients' health.

At any rate, I am just another patient, without any medical training or medical education, so my views are just from personal experience.

Regards, and best of luck getting your blood pressure down to healthy levels!
__________________
Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

Last edited by Machaon; 10-25-2008 at 05:00 PM.

 
Old 10-25-2008, 06:38 PM   #3
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Re: Perplexed About My High Blood Pressure

Machaon,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response; it gives me hope once again. I was beginning to believe that I was doomed to my unchangeable fate.

I suspect that I will find the answers to my additional questions arising as a result of your post, in your linked thread but if not, then I am very curious about some things.

Which hormones are produced by one's Immune System, (when in an overactive state)? Could Insulin be one of them perhaps?

Iím also assuming that when you say ďoveractive immune systemĒ, that you are referring to a specific aspect of the immune system as it relates specifically to the cardiovascular system, rather than from a generalized perspective. By generalized I mean where an overactive immune system might be beneficial in some cases such as fighting viral infections etc.

In any case, this is exactly the kind of information that I was hoping to find, because itís not really something that is easy to garner from an Internet search. My eyes would start to cross after reviewing so many links saying the same old same old Ė lose weight, exercise, and improve your diet yadda yadda yadda ad nauseam. Itís the why that really matters.

I will now go read your link. Thanks again!

LD

 
Old 10-25-2008, 09:14 PM   #4
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Re: Perplexed About My High Blood Pressure

I'm starting to do some of my own research based upon your lead about the neurohormonal system's relationship to cardiovascular dysfunction, and it seems that increases in noradrenaline is definitely connected with higher blood pressure.

Stress is a trigger for it, and I certainly have more than my share of stress. I should probably get back to the TM that I used to do back in the 70's.

Iím just getting underway on my internet research, so thereís probably a lot more involved with the neurohormonal system than just noradrenaline.

LD

 
Old 10-26-2008, 06:16 AM   #5
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Re: Perplexed About My High Blood Pressure

Quote:
Originally Posted by conanld View Post
... Which hormones are produced by one's Immune System, (when in an overactive state)?
A major researched, documented and targeted hormonal system is the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS). The drug manufacturers manufacture renin blockers, angiotensin I and II inhibitors (AceI,ARBs), aldosterone blockers, etc.

So...... the cause of high blood pressure, according to the drug manufacturers, is an over-active hormonal system, whether caused by the Immune System or the NeuroHormonal System. But when you go to most doctors, or specialists, they completely disregard the relationship between the hormonal system and high blood pressure (and other nasty diseases like Chronic Fatigue Syndrome). The doctors don't want to appear less than God, so they blame the patient for the patient's health problems. The doctors tell their patients that it is stress or anxiety that is causing the high blood pressure, and then charge big bucks for having to do very little work.

Does stress or anxiety raise the blood pressure? Of course! But stress and anxiety are just two of the many factors that can cause an over-active NeuroHormonal response. If stress and anxiety was the major reason for high blood pressure, all that would be required to cure high blood pressure would be anti-stress/anxiety medication. This is not the direction of the drug companies. The drug companies target over-active/over-reactive hormonal systems. The doctors target their patients' psyche and wallet.

Quote:
Could Insulin be one of them perhaps?
Insulin is one of the main villains of High Blood Pressure, for those that are Insulin Resistant, Diabetic or Pre-Diabetic. But, IMHO, Insulin is not produced by an over-active, over-reactive hormonal system. The body's mishandling of Insulin will damage the Immune/NeuroHormonal System, or worsen an already over-active immune system, or do damage to our organs, glands and nervous system. Insulin is one of the most important chemicals in our bodies, but when over-produced, Insulin becomes damaging. When the handling of Insulin is "out of whack", all kinds of havoc occurs in our bodies.

So...... the very first step towards recovery, or improvement, of ANY disease, is to improve the way that our bodies handle Insulin. This can be done through diet. I have experienced that frequent, small, low calorie meals are very effective in lowering my blood pressure and greatly improving my Insulin Resistance and general health. Most people either don't want to get serious about a healthy diet, don't believe that a healthy diet matters, aren't able to diet properly, or are not in enough pain in order to be forced to diet, so they keep popping many different pills (willingly given to them by their financially successful doctors), and keep getting worse.

Quote:
I’m also assuming that when you say “overactive immune system”, that you are referring to a specific aspect of the immune system as it relates specifically to the cardiovascular system, rather than from a generalized perspective. By generalized I mean where an overactive immune system might be beneficial in some cases such as fighting viral infections etc.
I actual meant to refer to the overactive Immune System AND the overactive NeuroHormonal System. I sometimes refer to both systems as the same system, and that is incorrect, as they are two different systems. Shows my lack of medical education.

The key wording is "overactive". The immune system is a wonderful system that tries to protect our bodies from invasion, while our NeuroHormonal System gives us extra strength when we need it and tries to keep our bodies running at 100%, by pumping out hormones from the Adrenal Glands. However, as wonderful as these Immune System and NeuroHormonal hormones are, when they are over-produced they turn from helpful chemicals to damaging chemicals. Like the old say: "Too much of a good thing is bad".

Quote:
I'm starting to do some of my own research based upon your lead about the neurohormonal system's relationship to cardiovascular dysfunction, and it seems that increases in noradrenaline is definitely connected with higher blood pressure.

Stress is a trigger for it, and I certainly have more than my share of stress. I should probably get back to the TM that I used to do back in the 70's.
I agree about stress. Stress can really drive up one's blood pressure. Reduced stress WILL reduce blood pressure. Just sitting back, taking in deep breaths and letting them out slowly and fully, for a few minutes, as I have done many times over my 25,000 bp readings, will temporarily lower blood pressure. But, stress is just one of many catalysts of high blood pressure.

Anyhow..... thanks for your posts. I appreciated the questions and the feedback and am interested in hearing the results of your research. At my age, with my memory problems, and with my lack of medical training and education, my learning has been slow and difficult, and for years my heart failure and health was getting worse. Now, with a very healthy blood pressure, diet, exercise, effective medication and avoiding Hormonal System triggers, my health and heart failure is improving, and I am feeling better day by day. I may be wrong about some things, and not have the Is dotted, or the Ts crossed exactly right but........ the proof is in the pudding.
__________________
Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

Last edited by Machaon; 10-26-2008 at 09:16 AM.

 
Old 10-26-2008, 11:09 AM   #6
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Re: Perplexed About My High Blood Pressure

Very interesting....

I have another condition that resembles something like fibromylagia, or chronic fatigue syndrome, but it is primarily cnetralized in my buttocks and upper rear thigh area where I have these terrible aches that feel like a very bad case of flu. It's always worse late at night when I'm trying to sleep.

The problem started after I had a particularly virulent and terrible case of the flu a couple years or so back. It seems like the aches in that area really never left me after that.

One other area that I am looking at is cholinergic sources and stimulation as a possible culprit. I have been taking Citicholine & Centrophenoxine for some time now for the purpose of sharpening up the mind, and improving age related declining memory.

For that purpose it has worked wonderfully, but now I fear that it might also have the undesirable effect of over exciting the neurohormonal system in some manner.

So far, what I have read has been somewhat inconclusive. I'm not in the medical field either, although I do have a decent layman's understanding of Neuroscience related topics, so I can peruse various medical and pharmacological journals and understand them to some degree from that perspective.

Some studies suggest that there is indeed a connection between colinergic over stimulation and the release of stress hormones, while other studies seem to indicate that colinergic deficiencies reduce colinergic signaling related to the neurohormonal system, and this causes the body's immune system to kick into high gear, thus resulting in excessive inflammation.

So perhaps the key is finding the right balance in there somewhere - something that both benefits me cognitively as well as from a neurohormonal perspective.

I very much mirror your feelings about over reliance upon the medical field for all of our answers. I have a real life story that illustrates this point all too well.

About 13 years ago, I had a hemangioblastoma brain tumor surgically removed from my cerebellum. None of my standard practitioners or ENT docs could figure out what was wrong with me. They all thought that I had Meniereís disease (an inner ear abnormality). I knew that I didn't so I started doing my own medical research out of desperation.

Eventually, I stumbled upon something in a medical journal that described a test that could be conducted to determine whether a particular lesion was central or peripherally sourced. It was an easy test that I could conduct on my own, so I did.

The results unequivocally pointed to a central lesion, so this immediately ruled out Meniereís disease (a peripheral lesion). I then made an appointment to see a neurologist. I was given an MRI, and the problem immediately popped out on the MRI.

Had I not taken this step of self-diagnosis, I very well might have died 13 years ago, because by the time I made it to the operating room, I was very close to death from the related fast growing cyst generated by the tumor.

LD

 
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