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<removed> how come some doctors just don't wnat to put people on BP meds? My old doctor, no matter how many times i went to see him with my high BP did not wantt to put me on anything! always said it would cause more harm in the long run ( made no sense to me) and just said my spikes are cause of anxiety and i need to take care of that first. Duh, but spikes are still spikes and they aren't good no matter what form they come in. it was only after going to the hospital during a bad panic attack and my BP hovering around 155/118-120 that they put me on beta blockers at the hospital.
I have since been seeing a new doctor and have continued taking beta blockers. But now what worried me is my sister is still seeing my old doctor, and she ALWAYS has a reading of like 145/90 and higher when they test her. Even when i checked her BP with my home monitor and she was relaxed it was still around 140/90! I keep telling her to get on something (my dad has high BP and is on a calcium channel blocker) but she wont listen to me.
Last edited by mod-anon; 03-11-2009 at 11:43 PM.
Reason: starting a new thread with this post.
Re: Blood Pressure extremes for each hour of each day for an entire year.
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Originally Posted by Lourage
Very informative Machaon!
I am glad that you find it interesting. Thanks for the feedback!
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Not sure if you already stated this, but did your doctor get you on BP meds right away with those numbers? or were you on medication during this time and it was still elevated?
I had been on Blood Pressure/Heart Failure medications since 1986, because I've had Heart Failure since then. Heart Failure meds and High Blood Pressure meds are basically the same, since the meds attempt to block or inhibit over-active or over-reactive NeuroHormonal systems.
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My old doctor, no matter how many times i went to see him with my high BP did not want to put me on anything! always said it would cause more harm in the long run ( made no sense to me) and just said my spikes are cause of anxiety and i need to take care of that first.
You are correct, IMHO. High Blood Pressure is High Blood Pressure is High Blood Pressure. Just by claiming that it's the fault of the patient's anxiety or stress, that is causing the High Blood Pressure, doesn't mean that the patient doesn't have High Blood Pressure.
It's scary to think that there are so many incompetent doctors who really don't know the value of the meds that they prescribe. Many do not realize, or care about the harm that High Blood Pressure can cause, and many don't know about the warnings and interactions of the meds that they prescribe, even though it is a simple thing to research the meds on the Internet.
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Duh, but spikes are still spikes and they aren't good no matter what form they come in.
I totally agree!
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it was only after going to the hospital during a bad panic attack and my BP hovering around 155/118-120 that they put me on beta blockers at the hospital.
An over-active NeuroHormonal system can cause over-production of adrenaline, which can cause panic attacks, anxiety and stress.
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I have since been seeing a new doctor and have continued taking beta blockers.
Which beta blocker do you take? I'm on Coreg.
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But now what worried me is my sister is still seeing my old doctor, and she ALWAYS has a reading of like 145/90 and higher when they test her.
She still has to pay him, whether he is effective, or competent. Sad, isn't it?!
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Even when i checked her BP with my home monitor and she was relaxed it was still around 140/90! I keep telling her to get on something (my dad has high BP and is on a calcium channel blocker) but she wont listen to me.
Most people hate to take medications, especially for life. Many are effected by nasty side effects. Most people also refuse to go on a health diet, especially if their unhealthy diets are enjoyable and don't seem to be causing them any problems.
Even though I suffered from Heart Failure, and High Blood Pressure FOR YEARS, I refused to diet. I still drank my beer, ate my chicken wings, french fries, bacon-cheese omelets with pancakes dripping in sirup, pizza, etc. It was only after my health deteriorated badly and I was in misery, in my late fifties, that I was forced to diet.
Being the good brother that you are, I'm sure that you will keep nagging her to take better care of herself.
Re: Blood Pressure extremes for each hour of each day for an entire year.
Thanks for the reply Machaon!
well for me i'm on propranolol 40 mg twice a day. While i think and feel that beta- blockers are best for anxiety suffers, they will do nothing for more spikes when i need it. Hard to explain, and i'm sure you heard it all, but if i'm anxious enough no matter what my BP still spikes and my heart rate still hits the high 120's. Keep in min di got every test done, and i fall into the category of " we do not whats causing your high BP, it's anxiety"
so i brought that up with my doctor! i said, i'm taking this med to stop the spikes, yet i'm still spiking! but since i seen so many specialists it's the " well your cardiologist wants you on it since it keeps your heart rate down" BUT, it only keeps it down and my Bp down when i'm relaxing! It even dips to lows like 89/56!!! But still, if i get nervous i go right though the beta blocker and everything gets jacked up high.
Off topic, but i tried a few anti-depressants, still gets high. No matter what. it's like my mind just makes it rise through no matter what med i'm on.
So it brings me to the point where i think the best thing for me in my situation would be a benzo. I know, addictive, i know, but heck! like you once did i love my beers and thats the only thing that makes me feel relaxed. Do you think i should bring up a benzo next time i visit my doc? Whats weird is ( and i done my research cause i'm crafty :P) it only seems like she wants to prescribe me the meds that the doc gets the most benefit from. Like, not sure if you ever heard about it but there is a drug called trazodone that helps with sleep and anxiety. i told her i read up on it and think i should try it and she said ' i don't like it" Keep in mind i'm haven't slept in months lol which also aint helping my BP or anxiety i'm sure, but she don't want to put me on sleeping pills, and i don't blame her. I don't want to be on a nother med, especially an addictive one for sleep. But the trazodone isn't even addictive! which is why i don;'t understand! UNTIL i read up that it's a cheap med for doctors to prescribe, so they usually go for stuff like ambien where they get a nice kick back from the insurance company.
So i left the docs being taking off my anti-depressant i was on for anxiety ( effexor) which did nothing for my anxiety lol. And now i'm on buspar and my propranolol.
Long story short, and i'm sorry for the ling post, do you agree that i should just tell her flat out that i think i should try a benzo? Like a months worth to see how it works? I really think that it would help with my BP issues. I just feel like she will think i'm just trying to score them to get high or something, that or they are so cheap she wont prescribe them to me
Thanks for the help and i wish you luck on your fight!
I am on 3 meds, Azor 5/40 and hydro 12.5 (Azor is 2 meds in one) I kept having spikes and higher numbers on my medication. My Doctor put me in Adderall 20mg 2x a day Adderall is an amphetamine and my blood pressure dropped to 98/60 - 108/69 and it's been steady no matter what I do so far. only side effects is a higher pulse at times, waking up in the morning and it's 84-90 but settles down usually later on to 67-70.
No more spikes or slighty high pressure.
You might want to see another doctor or maybe you stressing over your blood pressure numbers too much.
I have a question though... who says that spikes are bad? I mean, where does that knowledge come from? I would agree that nobody wants to spike all the time, but what's wrong with 145/95 "spikes". It's a fact that our blood pressure rises when we work out - should we not work out in order to avoid the rising pressure?
I'm just not sure that I think we should try to prevent our blood pressure from ever rising about the "normal" zone. Shouldn't the goal be to have a nice average?
Re: Blood Pressure extremes for each hour of each day for an entire year.
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Originally Posted by Lourage
Thanks for the reply Machaon!
well for me i'm on propranolol 40 mg twice a day. While i think and feel that beta- blockers are best for anxiety suffers, they will do nothing for more spikes when i need it. Hard to explain, and i'm sure you heard it all, but if i'm anxious enough no matter what my BP still spikes and my heart rate still hits the high 120's. Keep in min di got every test done, and i fall into the category of " we do not whats causing your high BP, it's anxiety"
...
Long story short, and i'm sorry for the ling post, do you agree that i should just tell her flat out that i think i should try a benzo? Like a months worth to see how it works?
You are on a relatively low dose of propranolol. So...... you have a choice between asking your doctor to slowly increase the propranolol, to see if that is more effective at lowering your blood pressure, heart rate dysfunction, and your anxiety; or adding another medication, such as a Benzodiazepine.
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so i brought that up with my doctor! i said, i'm taking this med to stop the spikes, yet i'm still spiking! but since i seen so many specialists it's the " well your cardiologist wants you on it since it keeps your heart rate down" BUT, it only keeps it down and my Bp down when i'm relaxing! It even dips to lows like 89/56!!! But still, if i get nervous i go right though the beta blocker and everything gets jacked up high.
It is obvious, especially to you, that your current treatment IS NOT WORKING! Your doctor is either not listening, or hasn't a clue how to help you, or both!
There are many doctors, making large salaries, who should have become car mechanics rather than people mechanics. That way these ineffective doctors would only be able to mess up people's cars, not their health.
As an obvious sign of the many bad doctors, just look at the large number of unhelped, ailing patients who can't get relief from their miserable health problems, from their doctors, and desperately and constantly seek any help they can get, through non medical professionals on the Internet.
Anyways....... what do you think? Do you feel that you are interested in slowly increasing the propranolol up to it's safest, highest dose, and see if that helps you, or do you feel that it is better to just add a benzo?
Are you exercising? are you at a healthy weight? Your doctors have run many tests and said you are fine. You are obessing over your blood pressure way too much and you are too young and healthy to living like an old man tethered to a blood pressure machine and taking a boat load of pills.
Some people have tried bio feedback with some success, you might want to give that a shot.
If that doesn't work, you might want to see a physchatist who has a larger arsenal of medications that might help you with the anxiety issues better than your current treating physcian.
Thing is though guys about increasing the propranolol is that if i'm relaxed it makes my anxiety pretty low, lowest was 96/51 it's only during the times of anxiety when it spikes right through the anxiety. Which is why i think i should been told to take the propranolol as needed, BEFORE anxious situations.
So now i'm working out and i'm worrying myself again that my BP is spiking high. Funny how this happened right when i stopped my effexor , although it wasn't working for my anxiety, it did help with the OCD about my blood pressure! but i don't want to be on anti-depressants, especially since i'm not depressed. Oh an dnow those hot flashes of adrenalin came back after stopping the effexor also. Sucks though cause if i tell that to my doc i know she will wnat me back on it. I think i'd be better off with as needed meds. But i'm not a doctor, i'm just a caveman
Anyways i'm probably missing some questions, i came in from working out and checked this real fast and now i got sidetracked and cooled down replying to this, so i'll check again later for anything else i missed.
Oh zekat everything i read says spikes are bad, well when doing nothing for no reason and it just spikes up. Different if your working out and it goes up, then you cool down and it gradually comes down. I just read an article online how people with anxiety induced blood pressure spikes are 70% more likely to have a stroke
I'm 28 151 pounds.
Mach, thing about the propranolol though is i thought the 40mg was even considered high? especially when it used for anxiety symptoms. I read some scary things about if you take too high of a dose it can cause a heart block, mess up your heart rhythm and you would need a pacemaker put in
I definetely could up my dose myself little by little, like by 5mg and see what happens, but like i said when i'm relaxed the propranolol gets it down pretty low! maybe i would have been better off sticking it out with the labetalol and giving it time to work or try another alpha-blocker.
I'm taking buspar right now, been 6 days .So far nothing Love the anxiety medication! it all does NOTHING for me. I need to be sedated. Yea a psych would be better at describing these meds, but i try and tell my GP that i read up on these things and know what works. She actually agreed with me about trying buspar though, but so far nothing.
My cardiologist didn't want to see me for another year, but maybe i should make an appointment for sooner? i'm not due back till October, but maybe some damage has occured since ( especially the way my heart races when i drink alcohol.
No history of strokes in my family, but my dad has high BP and my grandfather had a double bypass in his 40's. Ok i have to get back to the garage and finish exercising Thanks for the help.
Lourage you might want to post in the Aniexty forum, you might do better if you take medication to help you with stress. I can tell you are stressed just from reading your posts. I take low dose valium and it really knocks my BP down a lot. I take it for dizziness believe it or not. Just 2.5 mg, a half a pill and my pressure is really low. I was told it is not as addictive as Xanax and given at such a low dose.
Doesn't help when we have people here telling you you're doctors aren't doing their jobs I'm sure.
Re: Blood Pressure extremes for each hour of each day for an entire year.
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Originally Posted by Lourage
But the trazodone isn't even addictive! which is why i don;'t understand! UNTIL i read up that it's a cheap med for doctors to prescribe, so they usually go for stuff like ambien where they get a nice kick back from the insurance company.
I don't think that doctors get kickbacks for prescriptions. In fact, I believe there are various state and federal laws prohibiting a doctor from receiving compensation for writing a prescription. Doctors could be influenced to write certain prescriptions by the pharmaceutical reps who drop by and provide samples, free pens and paper, and whatnot (and the reps are under pretty strict guidelines as to what they can and can't do--my cousin is one), but as far as a doctor receiving direct compensation for writing a certain scrip--don't think it happens routinely (or legally).
LOL flutterbye, but i already post on there too Thing is it's so cluttered, should have sub boards for anxiety such as agoraphobia, social anxiety. You don't know how mad i get when i read "i don't know what to do" then as you read the post you find out the person has has anxiety for 3 weeks and want to be put on meds cause they are nervous about a test coming up or something.I always think "try having it for 20 years" LOL then again you guys probably get mad when you read peoples posts like me who complain about spikes here and there, probably think "try having constantly high blood pressure" :P
Yea i do sound stressed again, maybe the effexor was doing more good than bad. My spikes always seem to only trigger after drinking a few beers. I remember reading a bunch of your posts how alot of you get that too with drinking, high heart rate and raised BP.. What the heck though alcohol should lower it i thought? what the heck is wrong with our bodies. The other night i got home after drinking and i was at 145/94 pulse of 125 or something. Is it just stupid of me to even take it when/after drinking? i know the best thing is too not drink at all, but it's the only thing that helps my anxiety at the moment.
Oh good news! i got 2 hours of sleep last night, bringing m y total since monday to about 8 hours sleep all together. Ever since getting off the effexor and being put on buspar my sleeping is WAY worse, i mean it was worse before, but this is ridiculous.
I'm getting fed up and need to take something. i haven't slept a full night without waking up a million times every hour since last summer.
Please tell me their is something i can take over the counter that wont put me in a coma, since i'm taking buspar and propranolol, i also take omega 3 fish oil 3 times a day. Alot of things say don't mix with sleep aids, but i know some people do it and it's safe. Something like Tylenol PM or something? My eyes are starting to look like raccoon eyes from lack of sleep, and i just worked out for 2 hours! My body is so tired yet i can't sleep!
seems to me doctors don't think not sleeping is important, they don't care about blood pressure as much as we do, they like to treat anxiety with meds that don't work.
I must be feeling so down cause it just hit me, i was on effexor, it's not a SSRI, but a SNRI (serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor) but it also works on the dopamine. So stopping probably made me crash and it's some residual depression or something.
Oh good news! i got 2 hours of sleep last night, bringing m y total since monday to about 8 hours sleep all together.
I would work at this issue, maybe. That's not nearly enough sleep, as you know. When I am over-tired (maybe only get 4-5 instead of 7-8 hours), I'll have higher BP readings. Don't know what the science behind that is, but lack of sleep must be cause the body to go into a stress mode.
Personally, I've come to the decision that I would rather deal with occasional spikes than be medicated all the time. Living is a risk I'd like to take with the least amount of side-effects I mean, either way you go, you have to take a risk. No other choice. You go the medicated route, you stave off some spikes, and you deal with the occasional low blood pressure and whatever side effects the meds might bring. You go the non-medicated route, you have some spikes that might damage your blood vessels over the years. I suppose it's a quality of life vs. dealing with the risks issue. But, personally, I do not think you should worry so much about having a stroke from occasional "spikes" into the 145/95 zone. And, the only reason you know you have those spikes is because you take your blood pressure all the time. I am positive that if everybody took their blood pressure as much as we do that we'd find more and more people spike. I think you just need to learn to accept the fact that living is taking a risk and no matter what you do, there are risks. You've cut down your risk factors as much as you can. Now, go enjoy things!
Also, tell your doctor you want a sleeping pill! What about Lunesta or Ambien? Lack of sleep sucks!
Given my own experience with stress-related BP, I have to believe that any doctor who wants to medicate for occasional spikes into the 145/90 range is a quack, plain and simple. From what I have read and what not only my own PPO, but 3 others at my hospital told me, occasional spikes even higher then that (my own would reach the 150s systolic) are nothing to worry about...it is when the spikes are so frequent that they are in effect stable and consistent high BP that medical attention is required.
I went through a year long spiral where the more I worried, the higher my BP would go. Its not a place you want to be, trust me. Finally my doctor and a shrink told me to simply stop taking my BP. I deal with the anxiety by having my readings taken at my clinic and forwarded to my doctor unseen by me with the caveat that if there is a problem he will call me. That, plus going on a full court press anti-HBP regimen (exercise, DASH diet, supplements) has given me a peace of mind like nothing has. And if I develop HBP in spite of all this? Well I've made peace with the idea of ultimately being on meds as well.
I am not in any way being cavalier about the risks of HBP, but I think having a sort of zen fatalism towards it helps enormously psychologically.
oh man guys, no sleep yet again. it's gotta be the buspar thats making my sleeping worse. Even when i do sleep it's for about an hour at a time, then i wake back up. I also usually get sleep paralysis, but only when i try sleeping on my back, well last night i got it while sleeping on my side, and it was the worst i ever had it and was laying on my side and started hearing what sounded like a demon screaming at me LOL, i knew what it was from, but it still scared the heck out of me still and i couldn't stop shaking. I just remember trying to scream and i couldn't took a minute to break out of it, and my heart was pounding by then.
I'm not scheduled to see my doc for another month, but should i call today and make an appointment for sooner? I can't wait till April 4th, but then again i feel like an idiot going to the doctor so much, i shouldn't right?
I'm going to bring up a sleeping pill yet again zekat, seems like some doctors just don't want to prescribe them and don't thin insomnia is that big of a deal. The no sleeping could be why i'm getting those hot flashes again, plus i know for a fact it's not helping my anxiety.
I guess 'lli have to go back on an anti-depressant, Prozac or zoloft i'm thinking. Go right to the good stuff, i know my doc brought up some weird no name one last time i was there, Cymbalta or something, but then i brought up prozac and she said it would help with my ocd towards my BP as well, i really don't want to go on one again though.
Also i usually drink like 4 cups of coffee a day, when i stopped for a few months it didn't help with anything, yesterday i decided to not drink any and sleep if it would help with my sleep and it didn't.
I just don;t get why i'm getting those hot flashes again just by thinking about them since coming off the effexor. Just that just prove it's my OCD causing them? cause even when i feel the hotness sweep across my body, when i usually take my BP and that happens it's still normal numbers! So why does that happen then? it feels so uncomfortable and sometimes it gets so bad i just start sweating. It feels like it's my BP going up.
The weird thing is i also read having LOW blood pressure can causes it also, i guess your body tries to compensate for how low it so the blood surges or something.
Last edited by mod-anon; 03-13-2009 at 09:01 AM.
Reason: removed quote
I think your flashes are a response to your anxiety - like maybe it's a response to adrenaline in your body. I think the sooner you can disassociate the hot flashes/blushing from your BP, the sooner you will be off to wellsville.
Also, I wouldn't bother going in to see your doctor. I would simply call and leave a message for his nurse. Just leave a message for her that you are still dealing with terrible amounts of insomnia and need something to help you sleep - like yesterday Leave your pharmacy number and a call back number.
I think if you go in, you might get swept up in dealing w/ BP, anxiety, and everything else. They really shouldn't have a problem with doing this for you since you are a patient they see on a regular basis and are familiar with.
I think i tried that once, but the nurse was like ' well it's says nothing in your chat about taking this medication, so you would need to come in and see the doctor, we can't just call in for a drug you haven't taken without seeing the doctor first, or something like that.
I don't mind the fact of actually going in, since i go in like once a month anyway lol. cause of the anti-depressants i was taking for anxiety. Had to go in so much for progress reports.
or maybe i should call in and just ask the nurse what she thinks i should do, of course she will say come in for appointment , i was just there last week. Actually my doctor isn't in on Fridays, so we shall have to wait another weekend.
Can i just go get some tylenolol advil Pm for the time being? would it interact with buspar or propranolol? what if i take the sleeping pill muhc later? LOL listen to me, not afraid to drink alcohol on top of these meds though right? , but i'm afraid to take a stupid sleeping pill with them.
Aslo the adrenaline response sounds right. I remember someone posting about that on the anxiety board and saying tis' harmless, you were in that topic too. Sure doesn't feel harmless though!
But what also doesn't make sense is how come i still dream in the hour or so i get to sleep? i always thought dreams don't occur until your in deep REM sleep?
ok i called and she wasn't in, so i asked the nurse if i can take tylenolol PM or something and she said she can't give out medical advice. So we decided to make an appointment for Tuesday.
I'm just trying to think what i should ask to take. Aren't all sleeping aids mild benzos? So it will also help with anxiety? LOL not that i would take it during the day. But wouldn't a regular benzo like say valium ativan or klonopin also help with sleep PLUS anxiety?
Should i still stay on the Buspar though if my sleeping is this wacked out on it? if i do then i wont be on anything for anxiety and just propranolol... Prozac or zoloft here i come! Atleast it will get rid of my hot flashes though.
zekat how did you feel when you took your full dose of propranolol at 80 mg? didn't that knock you for a loop? I take 40 twice a day but nephro said eventually might have to start taking it at 80. No way though in only like 3 months my body is already used to the 40, doesn't it take years for beta blockers to stop working at their prescribed dose?
Your doctor is either not listening, or hasn't a clue how to help you, or both! 
