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Old 08-04-2009, 04:51 AM   #1
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New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

New research studies based on more than 22,000 people is showing that lowering BP below the known target of 140/90 is not beneficial in terms of reducing mortality or morbidity. This Cochrane Review article was released on July 8, 2009 to all Health Care professionals. The article claims that many doctors have always been aware that blood pressure reduction mainly benefits the small population with very high consistent blood pressure values. For all others their is either no benefit or no proven positive results. In the mean time, multiple drugs (some with fatal side effects) are being prescribed constantly, to bring numbers below 140/90.

 
Old 08-04-2009, 05:57 AM   #2
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

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Originally Posted by ACE28 View Post
New research studies based on more than 22,000 people is showing that lowering BP below the known target of 140/90 is not beneficial in terms of reducing mortality or morbidity. This Cochrane Review article was released on July 8, 2009 to all Health Care professionals.
Lowering BP below 140/90 "might not" be beneficial in reducing mortality or morbidity, according to this study, but, in my opinion, it is beneficial to one's overall health.

I have always believed that one's blood pressure is not a disease, all to itself, but a body gauge that reflects upon the overall health of one's body. A blood pressure of 140/90 or higher reflects unhealthy conditions in one's body. If these unhealthy conditions are allowed to continue, then slowly, over long periods of time, body organs, glands and nerves will be negatively effected, like the Pancreas, and the Thyroid, and the Liver, and the Kidneys, and the Heart, and the Eyes, and the Nerves, etc.

In my humble, non-professional opinion, the article doesn't tell the whole story.

Quote:
In the mean time, multiple drugs (some with fatal side effects) are being prescribed constantly, to bring numbers below 140/90.
The alternative to "multiple drugs", in order to maintain a healthier body, is for the patient to eat a healthy diet and do proper exercise, plus avoid bad-health triggers. Since most patients are not willing or able to do this, then doctors must resort to the tools at hand, and what makes them the most money: Prescribing multiple meds and scheduling follow-up appointments and expensive tests.

Thanks for posting about this interesting research.
__________________
Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

Last edited by Machaon; 08-04-2009 at 05:59 AM.

 
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:58 AM   #3
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

I posted this article as "Food for Thought". When we are told that our numbers are not below 140/90, and we must be prescribed additional drugs, this should make doctors (and patients) reconsider whether adding more drugs or raising the dose to intolerable levels is a good or ethical choice. Unfortunately, doctors like many in other professions will justify their position in overtreating because of "The Accepted Guidelines for Cholesterol Values and Blood Pressure". The current guidelines are making many doctors and pharmaceutical companies very wealthy (at the public's expense). Besides, some of the mortality studies on almost all hypertension drugs prescribed fail to show any mortality benefit at all, and some classes of drugs such as calcium blockers have been shown to increase death rates from heart disease and cancer by almost 15 %, though they are neutral on Stroke risk. In conclusion, keeping a blood pressure level of about 140/90 may be a safer choice in the long run.....

 
Old 08-04-2009, 02:37 PM   #4
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

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Originally Posted by ACE28 View Post
In conclusion, keeping a blood pressure level of about 140/90 may be a safer choice in the long run.....
Wouldn't that only be the case if the only other choice were to use drugs to lower it further?

Wouldn't cleaning up one's diet, increasing exercise, and losing excess body fat lower blood pressure "the natural way" without needing (additional) drugs while giving other beneficial effects (lower risk of diabetes or better control of diabetes, improved blood cholesterol levels, etc.)?

 
Old 08-04-2009, 03:08 PM   #5
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

That's good news, also 140/90 without medication is better than 130/80 with medication. Today I reduced my dose of Cardizem SR from 180mg to 90mg and my bp is the same, I hope it stays that way.

 
Old 08-04-2009, 03:28 PM   #6
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE28 View Post
I posted this article as "Food for Thought". When we are told that our numbers are not below 140/90, and we must be prescribed additional drugs, this should make doctors (and patients) reconsider whether adding more drugs or raising the dose to intolerable levels is a good or ethical choice.
I have little respect for our medical system or our doctors. I don't think that most patients get proper diagnosis or analysis or evaluation of their health problems. That reality makes quality health forums, like Healthboards that much more important. At least here, we can learn what others have done to improve their lives and their health.

The only reason why I am alive today, and have a fairly good quality of life, after 20+ years of heart failure and chronic high blood pressure, is because I finally learned to consider doctor input, as to drugs and treatment, as recommendations rather than as gospel. So, in essence, I agree with you about questioning the validity and ethics behind doctor decisions.

Quote:
Unfortunately, doctors like many in other professions will justify their position in overtreating because of "The Accepted Guidelines for Cholesterol Values and Blood Pressure". The current guidelines are making many doctors and pharmaceutical companies very wealthy (at the public's expense).
I agree. But, to improve most problems with high blood pressure and unhealthy cholesterol levels, the patient needs to adhere to a healthy diet, and appropriate exercise. Those who "refuse", or "don't know how" to diet and exercise properly, will fall victim to our inept and self-serving medical care system. What's funny, so to speak, is that our medical care system is still one of the world's best. For instance, in Scotland, patients are pulling their own teeth because of long delays in getting professional care.

Quote:
Besides, some of the mortality studies on almost all hypertension drugs prescribed fail to show any mortality benefit at all, and some classes of drugs such as calcium blockers have been shown to increase death rates from heart disease and cancer by almost 15 %, though they are neutral on Stroke risk.
I find that difficult to believe, especially about the newer classes of drugs, like the Ace Inhibitors. I consider Coreg, a Beta Blocker, a miracle medication, which can save and extend lives and improve the quality of health and life for patients. It is truly a great discovery, IMHO.

Quote:
In conclusion, keeping a blood pressure level of about 140/90 may be a safer choice in the long run.....
Sadly, considering all things, you could be right about this. Without proper diet, exercise and avoidance of bad-healthy triggers, most patients might have to chose between doctor-prescribed multiple meds with nasty side effects, or living with unhealthy levels of blood pressure, and the slow damage to one's health as a result.
__________________
Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

 
Old 08-04-2009, 07:14 PM   #7
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Talking Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Hello:
Well, as a fellow hypertensioner heaven knows we have all been managed AND mismanaged by md's with b/p meds, et al. The most important thing for us all to do for our health is (good habits not withstanding) to be as well informed as possible.
Read read read and ask ask ask and challenge! Md's don't like it but it's your health and we've only got one brain so let's protect it!
Who knows what the truth is about b/p numbers. Some things are simply logic and as our hydraulics age we want to keep it running as smoothly as possible!

Coffy

 
Old 08-05-2009, 12:01 AM   #8
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Away from the huge business that could lead to war between companies, don't you think that the more we keep our arteries elastic the more we resist against the danger of hypertension?

For example, most hear attack patients we have been seeing in the last 25 years are due to bad lifestyle and eating habits. What if someone with a 150/95 who exercises, eats well and take natural supplements that protect his body and heart like omega 3, magnesium, vitamin C and alot of other supplements. We have to consider that medications are REALLY helpful but also have side effects, and may cause heart problems on the long term. It's a risk one might take

 
Old 08-05-2009, 05:22 AM   #9
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Quote:
Originally Posted by tjlhb View Post
Wouldn't that only be the case if the only other choice were to use drugs to lower it further?

Wouldn't cleaning up one's diet, increasing exercise, and losing excess body fat lower blood pressure "the natural way" without needing (additional) drugs while giving other beneficial effects (lower risk of diabetes or better control of diabetes, improved blood cholesterol levels, etc.)?
Yes - The natural way is always the best and most recommended. The problem is that most patients do not follow good rules of health, which of course, makes doctors eager to prescribe medications and add new lifetime patients to their records. The natural way is safe, healthy and pays off over time. The drug route can be dangerous (from what I've read) because of the "pressor" effect of drugs, when our numbers drop below 130/80, creates a kind of shock to our system, which effects our natural body reactions and over-all health. If you remove this medication, blood pressure can skyrocket again. It's a nasty cycle. If your blood pressure is dangerously high 160/100 +
then medication is definitely necessary to avoid heart and kidney damage. I believe milder numbers can go the natural route, with smaller doses of medications. The article makes it clear that overtreatment can be more detrimental to your health with no advantages.

 
Old 08-05-2009, 05:32 AM   #10
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffyDrinker711 View Post
Hello:
Well, as a fellow hypertensioner heaven knows we have all been managed AND mismanaged by md's with b/p meds, et al. The most important thing for us all to do for our health is (good habits not withstanding) to be as well informed as possible.
Read read read and ask ask ask and challenge! Md's don't like it but it's your health and we've only got one brain so let's protect it!
Who knows what the truth is about b/p numbers. Some things are simply logic and as our hydraulics age we want to keep it running as smoothly as possible!

Coffy
Agreed - It's the only way to really help yourself...

 
Old 08-05-2009, 07:25 AM   #11
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machaon View Post
I find that difficult to believe, especially about the newer classes of drugs, like the Ace Inhibitors. I consider Coreg, a Beta Blocker, a miracle medication, which can save and extend lives and improve the quality of health and life for patients. It is truly a great discovery, IMHO.

You are correct, COREG along with METOPROLOL and PROPRANOL showed such dramatic effects on all cause mortality, that the trials were stopped early. In the MERIT (Toprol) study, 203 patients not taking TOPROL suffered Cardiovascular issues, only 123 patients taking TOPROL had cardiovascular issues. That's a 34% risk reduction. How many other drugs (besides COREG) can make this claim. This is not a class effect, other beta blockers have not been shown to provide any strong significant benefits. COREG, LABETALOL and NEBIVOLOL (BYSTOLIC) are the newest beta blockers. COREG is the most researched of the three, and the best drug available for severe heart failure.
Beta Blockers are the most proven drug to prolong life, with almost 40 years of use treating most types of heart conditions and cardiovascular issues.

If you do not get the horrible dry nagging cough, Ace Inhibitors are safe.
Ace Inhibitors are probably the best of the HBP medications, also with plenty of research and great results. As a class of drugs, all Ace Inhibitors are not created equal. The Ace's with the best results according to large research trials are: CAPTOPRIL, RAMIPRIL and PERINDOPRIL. These are known as the highly lipophilic (penetrates the brain/blood barrier)drugs. All others with the exclusion of ENALAPRIL, have not been adequately tested to show positive results. According to some, the ACE research studies have been so positive not because of the ace-inhibitor but the combination with a diuretic, which yielded the most dramatic results. The diuretic called "INDAPAMIDE" alone has yielded dramatic effects on all cause mortality.

 
Old 08-05-2009, 07:59 AM   #12
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Quote:
Originally Posted by cartner View Post
Away from the huge business that could lead to war between companies, don't you think that the more we keep our arteries elastic the more we resist against the danger of hypertension?

For example, most hear attack patients we have been seeing in the last 25 years are due to bad lifestyle and eating habits. What if someone with a 150/95 who exercises, eats well and take natural supplements that protect his body and heart like omega 3, magnesium, vitamin C and alot of other supplements. We have to consider that medications are REALLY helpful but also have side effects, and may cause heart problems on the long term. It's a risk one might take
Cartner - I think your correct. Lifestyle and Eating habits are very important. I don't believe there's a magic bullet that can replace a good diet with weight management. The only exception is perhaps the supplement that you mention "Vitamin C" and perhaps "Niacin". Others are "Folic Acid, Vitamin E and GARLIC". The reason I mention these is because they are known to decrease arterial and systemic inflammation, and improve endothelial function. Niacin improves almost every lipid value, including lowering CRP, fibrinogen and LPa, regardless of your diet. Another Magic bullet may be a beta blocker, because it eliminates the negative effects of stress and tension, such as increased heart rate, palpitations, fear and anxiety. Which in turn increases blood flow to the heart. They also lower CRP and improve artery function. As we all know stress can kill us, regardless that beta blockers may also raise cholesterol levels and lower HDL slightly, stress, inflammation and dangerous heart rates will do more damage than cholesterol.

 
Old 08-05-2009, 12:04 PM   #13
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE28 View Post
COREG is the most researched of the three, and the best drug available for severe heart failure.
Coreg is great for any level of Heart Failure. It is also a wonderful blood pressure medication. Coreg has many documented benefits. It seems like, every time they did a new clinical trial on Coreg (of which they did many), new health benefits were discovered.

Buts...... getting back to your original discussion regarding whether or not to medicate a blood pressure around 140/90:

I will only offer anecdotal issues backing my opinion that a average blood pressure around 140/90 must be brought down to healthier levels, especially the "90". An average diastolic of "90" or above, indicates to me that the body is under constant unhealthy duress.

I am convinced that, in most cases, someone's blood pressure reflects the overall health of one's metabolism. The higher the "average" blood pressure the more unhealthy the body metabolism. Fortunately, the body is very tough and it takes many years of unhealthy metabolism to slowly damage the thyroid, liver, kidneys, heart, pancreas, nerves, eyes, etc.

In my case, I've taken my blood pressure an average of seven times per day since 1998. From 1998 through 2004, I tested many foods, drinks, irritants. I discovered some high-blood-pressure-triggers, like dust, which would immediately send my blood pressure soaring, but I couldn't get my blood pressure down to healthier levels until 2005, when I went on a strict, healthy diet.

The healthy diet improved my metabolism so much that it enabled me to discover other high-blood-pressure-triggers. After that, the more high-blood-pressure-triggers I uncovered, the healthier my average blood pressure, and the better my health. For July 2009, my average blood pressure, based on 187 readings was 120/71, and despite serious health problems, my overall health continues to improve, leading to a better quality of life for me.

Anecdotally, I am convinced that an average blood pressure of around 120/70, based on a healthy diet, proper exercise, avoidance of high-blood-pressure-triggers, and taking the most effective medication, will provide the best results for good health. An average blood pressure of 140/90 will slowly damage one's health, IMHO.
__________________
Greatly Improved CHF, A-Fib, HBP, Asthma:

⇒ Eliminate household items that are toxic!
⇒ Balanced, healthy, low glycemic diet
⇒ Lots of Exercise
⇒ Avoid night allergens, toxins
⇒ Coreg!

Last edited by Machaon; 08-05-2009 at 12:05 PM.

 
Old 08-05-2009, 04:02 PM   #14
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Hi, this is a very interesting topic, and I appreciate all of your knowledge about the different classes of BP meds.

Last edited by writeleft; 08-07-2009 at 07:55 AM.

 
Old 08-06-2009, 08:01 AM   #15
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Re: New research shows No Benefit in Lowering BP Below "Standard" 140/90

Hi Writeleft,

I'm sorry for the difficulties you had to endure at a young age. As far as medications are concerned, I'm sure your doctor has prescribed these medications with plenty of thought and concern regarding your particular health conditions. An area of focus which I find to be extremely important, is Vitamins and Supplements. Many doctors do not believe that Vitamin supplements offer anything beneficial. Besides, their job is to practice medicine. I do not want to comment on medication choices or the rational behind them, this is a doctor's decision, though I can comment on the benefits of vitamin supplements such as a good Multivitamin, Vitamin C, Omega-3 fish oil, Niacin and Folic Acid. I believe these nutrients assist us in the healing and rejuvenation process. God can help us with our Spiritual Rejuvenation.

 
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