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Old 11-20-2006, 10:02 AM   #1
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Guy_21D HB User
CBC and AIDS

Hey again...

Does anyone know that if an hiv+ person with a count less of 50 in their cd4 t cells will also have abnormalities in their CBC test...Is this a fact?

For ex, Lower/Higher than normal (24 - 45%), Total Lymphocytes count?

Or...Really high Eosinophils?? 0 - 4 is the normal rate, if you have lets say... 8% would that be considered hiv or should it be a lot higher (having in mind the infected person has less than 50 cd4 cells)

Cflas if your reading this...Please let me know, when u had 84 t-cell count did your cbc showed anything abnormal?

Thanx for your feedback...

 
Old 11-20-2006, 11:20 AM   #2
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Re: CBC and AIDS

The CBC can be quite variable in a person with HIV/AIDS. I'm sure many members can atest to their specific profiles, but I can give you some general tips. When a person's CD4+ count goes down it will generally manifest abnormalities on the CBC.

Total lymphocytes and white blood cells can be low and the person may show a low hematocrit (a component of red blood cells) when progressing to AIDS. If these parameters are normal or in the high range it may be a good sign that the body is mounting an appropriate immune response to an infection.

If the eosinophils are high, it usually indicates a parasitic infection. It could also suggest a systemic condition such as asthma, hay fever, or possibly an adverse drug reaction. If a person had a CD4+ less than 50 with an eosinophil count of 8%, I would suspect pnuemonia by Pneumocystis jirovecii (formerly P. carinii). Healthcare workers usually refer to it as PCP.

However, realize that there are no absolutes on the CBC, and it is up to your physican to use these values with the total clinical picture in order to direct treatment. Hope that helps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy_21D
Hey again...

Does anyone know that if an hiv+ person with a count less of 50 in their cd4 t cells will also have abnormalities in their CBC test...Is this a fact?

For ex, Lower/Higher than normal (24 - 45%), Total Lymphocytes count?

Or...Really high Eosinophils?? 0 - 4 is the normal rate, if you have lets say... 8% would that be considered hiv or should it be a lot higher (having in mind the infected person has less than 50 cd4 cells)

Cflas if your reading this...Please let me know, when u had 84 t-cell count did your cbc showed anything abnormal?

Thanx for your feedback...

Last edited by cgarmany; 11-20-2006 at 11:29 AM.

 
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Old 11-20-2006, 05:00 PM   #3
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Re: CBC and AIDS

Dear Guy_21D: I'd listen to GGARMANY as his advise appears sound. I agree, that a low cd4 count will show adverse indicators with your CBC. (HOwever, and this is so important: don't use you CBC to determine you HIV status, OK? You could levels of your CBC that are our of kilter for any number of reasons other than HIV.

I really would like to be able to remember what my CBC showed when my t-cells were hovering at 84 and I thought I had all the lab values from that time period but, for whatever reason, I am unable to put my hands on them at the moment. (By the way, my t-cells are at 278 not 244 as I previously had mentioned). But you have to understand, during that period, I was terribly anemic and had an enlarged spleen. THey removed the spleen and my hemotologist suggested that he doubted any of my lab work would have been normal because he was convinced the spleen had sequestered all the good blood and what was being drawn was peripheral. I have since come to find out that the anemia was not HIV related but was related to a bleeding ulcer and esophageal varises which were directly related to the degree of Excedrin I had been using to relieve headaches and lower back pain. (THe headaches and back pain have dissipated when I started get acupuncture treatments.)

Anyway, ggarmanry has much more interpretive experience about this than I do. chris

 
Old 11-21-2006, 12:26 PM   #4
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Question Re: CBC and AIDS

After 12+ years after infection with no treatment would it be normal/commen to have a total WBC of 8700 - lymphocytes being 2800(32%) and neutrophils being 5130(59%) and monocytes, eosinophils and basophils all with normal numbers/percentages as well. RBC, hemoglobin, etc all well within normal limits as well?

 
Old 11-21-2006, 08:14 PM   #5
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Re: CBC and AIDS

It’s difficult to say what’s normal with HIV/AIDS because the clinical picture can be quite variable. As I mentioned before, there are no absolutes on the CBC. In an HIV+ individual with normal immune function who receives no treatment, the average length until the onset of AIDS in about 8 years. Older patients tend to progress more rapidly and younger patients will usually have a later onset. When AIDS is diagnosed the patient will generally present with an array of opportunistic infections that will reflect on the CBC.

The CBC values you’ve given are “relatively” within the normal range. The neutrophils are a little high (percentage-wise), which could suggest a bacterial infection or inflammation. It could also reflect a relative increase if your lymphocytes are little low but your leukocytes are normal (and your leukocyte values are within a normal range). There are two basic stages of development for neutrophils: 1) band neutrophils (bands) and 2) segmented neutrophils (segs). Bands are immature forms and segs are mature neutrophils. The percentage you gave is for the segs. The percentage of bands would give the clinician more diagnostic information. Normally there should be 0% of bands detectable on the CBC. If there is an increase in the bands, we call that a “left shift” and that almost always indicates an acute infection.

The lymphocytes percentage is a little on the low side (slightly), which could be accounted for by the virus. However, lymphocyte counts can be low if you are taking corticosteroids or are in a high stress state. Lymphocytes can be divided into two categories: 1) T-cells and 2) B-cells. HIV attacks and destroys T-cells that have a special maker called CD4+. This is why your healthcare provider is constantly concerned with the “CD4+ count.”

If a person has been HIV positive for 12 years or more without treatment with that CBC, I would consider that pretty exceptional. Based on the “average,” I would expect more overt signs of AIDS with alterations on the CBC. But, those values are quite possible and would indicate a relatively healthy person given that there are no other issues involved. However, your physician should have the final say on that.

Remember as cflas mentioned above, the CBC cannot be used in and of itself to diagnose HIV/AIDS, and must be taken into account with the total clinical picture of the patient. Also keep in mind that many labs have their own parameters of normal ranges, which can vary slightly.

Hope that helps some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tracygirl
After 12+ years after infection with no treatment would it be normal/commen to have a total WBC of 8700 - lymphocytes being 2800(32%) and neutrophils being 5130(59%) and monocytes, eosinophils and basophils all with normal numbers/percentages as well. RBC, hemoglobin, etc all well within normal limits as well?

Last edited by cgarmany; 11-22-2006 at 05:17 AM.

 
Old 11-22-2006, 10:18 AM   #6
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Re: CBC and AIDS

Thanks for your reply cgarmany very much appreciated. Did you have any markers on your CBC? I was surprised to hear you say my lymphocytes were a little low.............I thought they were in the very middle of the "normal range"..............also my monocytes were 600(7%), eosinophils 170(2%) and basophils were 0. Again thank-you so much, you sound very knowledgeable!

 
Old 11-22-2006, 10:58 AM   #7
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Guy_21D HB User
Re: CBC and AIDS

Quote:
Originally Posted by tracygirl
Thanks for your reply cgarmany very much appreciated. Did you have any markers on your CBC? I was surprised to hear you say my lymphocytes were a little low.............I thought they were in the very middle of the "normal range"..............also my monocytes were 600(7%), eosinophils 170(2%) and basophils were 0. Again thank-you so much, you sound very knowledgeable!
Tracy...Lymphocytes count (ranges may vary on different labs)
Normal Adult Range: 18 - 48 %
Optimal Adult Reading: 33

My last cbc showed (im still waiting 2 more months to get an hiv test)

Lymphocytes: 27% ( 25% - 45% ) <-- normal range on this lab.

Hope this helps

 
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