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Old 05-26-2004, 10:28 PM   #1
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Question Should I see an immunologist, and how do I find one?

Hi,

I'm brand-new to this site and have a general question about immunologists, but first, a little background:

I suffer from three (so far...) autoimmune disorders: Hashimotos' thyroiditis w/ hypothyroidism, myasthenia gravis, and vitiligo. These have all been dx'ed in the last 10 months, despite my having been fairly sick for at least 10 years.

I am seeing a neuromuscular specialist for the MG and an endocrinologist for the thyroid disorder. I also have fibromyalgia, but I have not been to a rheumatologist in a couple of years because mine stopped participating in my insurance plan.

In seeing the two specialists for the autoimmune disorders, I feel as though I might be the victim of "tunnel vision" of sorts; in other words, each doctor is concentating on his area of expertise, and the rest of me is "falling through the cracks". Actually, my endo is trying to address the autoimmune aspect of my conditions within the confines of his speciality, but I'm still wondering if I should be trying to find another rheumy, or, possibly, an immunologist.

How does one find an immunologist? Any time I see a doctor described as an immunologist, he/she is also an allergist -- primarily the latter. I live in NJ, not too far from several teaching hospitals. Would they be good places to start? Would I be better off with another rheumy? Should I not bother with either, and just stick with the n/m doctor and the endo? (I should point out that I am taking CellCept for the MG and might eventually need to begin IVIG.)

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions regarding my dilemma.

Best,
Pat

 
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Old 05-30-2004, 08:29 AM   #2
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Re: Should I see an immunologist, and how do I find one?

Hi,

I'm brand-new to this site and have a general question about immunologists, but first, a little background:

I suffer from three (so far...) autoimmune disorders: Hashimotos' thyroiditis w/ hypothyroidism, myasthenia gravis, and vitiligo. These have all been dx'ed in the last 10 months, despite my having been fairly sick for at least 10 years.

I am seeing a neuromuscular specialist for the MG and an endocrinologist for the thyroid disorder. I also have fibromyalgia, but I have not been to a rheumatologist in a couple of years because mine stopped participating in my insurance plan.

In seeing the two specialists for the autoimmune disorders, I feel as though I might be the victim of "tunnel vision" of sorts; in other words, each doctor is concentating on his area of expertise, and the rest of me is "falling through the cracks". Actually, my endo is trying to address the autoimmune aspect of my conditions within the confines of his speciality, but I'm still wondering if I should be trying to find another rheumy, or, possibly, an immunologist.

How does one find an immunologist? Any time I see a doctor described as an immunologist, he/she is also an allergist -- primarily the latter. I live in NJ, not too far from several teaching hospitals. Would they be good places to start? Would I be better off with another rheumy? Should I not bother with either, and just stick with the n/m doctor and the endo? (I should point out that I am taking CellCept for the MG and might eventually need to begin IVIG.)

I would appreciate any advice or suggestions regarding my dilemma.

Best,
Pat



Hi Pat,

This may not be of much help but I did want to reply anyway.

I too have Hashimoto's, am currently being tested for MG, and have been and am being tested for everything under the sun currently; with the doctors now concentrating on possible lupus, mixed connective disease....anyway something in the autoimmune disease arena due to a very high ANA titer - 1:2560 speckled pattern. I have felt generally ill (often significantly so) for a couple years now with numerous symptoms and abnormal MRI (with numerous white matter brain lesions), abnormal EEG's with suspected seizures too.

So... I have felt the "tunnel vision" effect of the many "specialists" who do just that - rule in or out stuff that is within their area of expertise and then refer you to another doctor in another area or just shrug their shoulders and tell you "you may just have to learn to live with it" ..>! despite several ER visits due to symptoms and pain. I told the last doctor who said that, "Well.... obviously I AM LIVING with it or I wouldn't be here but that doesn't make it go away or make me want to just accept pain and suffering as a way of life. I am TRYING to find out WHY I feel this way and with all due respect - JUST AS YOU WOULD IF IT WERE YOU! DOCTOR." Then I thanked her for her time and said at least I know it is not ".........." (whatever) and that in itself helps me along this long, very arduous road to understanding what is going on in my body.

SO.. .now I have an appointment with an autoimmume specialist at a large renowned teaching university in my state. I sent them an email addressing the many symptoms, test results and doctors I have seen, etc. and they sent me back a letter with an appt. date with the chief of staff of immumology there.

So... from my viewpoint and where I am right now......YES, do your best to get an appointment at a good teaching university... You may even want to contact several at the same time and see what kind of responses you get. (I have) And then carefully research the doctors they set you up with, the track record of the facility and the doc, their experience, etc. After all... we shop for a car for goodness sake...! Why not something that is so very important to our life - OUR HEALTH...!

Whatever, it is your decision and if you decide not to now, maybe you will later, maybe not. I personally am being driven by a need to know why I feel like I am dying often and feel halfway there at the age of 50 (just turned that!), when I used to be very active and have so much to live for - kids, grandkids, just life!, etc...

It is so hard today to find a doctor who is not so overwhelmed and stressed out by pressures of insurance rules and time that they will take a real interest in you - more than the quick, cursory, well....it's not this so....??? But ANY doc worth his/her salt will accept and care enough about you to be supportive of your seeing whoever it takes to try to get better... AFter all... isn't that what their profession is supposed to be about....!?!?!

Sorry, so long...... Hope you get at least something out of all this...

Take care...

Linda

 
Old 05-30-2004, 03:31 PM   #3
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Re: Should I see an immunologist, and how do I find one?

Well said, Linda! Let us know how this goes for you.

 
Old 05-31-2004, 12:13 PM   #4
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Smile Thank you, Linda. You are a doll!

Hi, Linda,

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a thoughtful, articulate response to my post. Your comments and obversations were inordinately helpful.

First of all, I have to tell you how very sorry I am about the suffering -- both physical and psychological -- that you have endured over the last few years. Your courage and resiliency are an inspiration.

I, too, have been derided in my efforts to find out why I was so sick, tired, and in so much pain for some 15 years now. My many visits to specialists were labeled "doctor-shopping", and the only condition that my friends and family members could agree upon was "hypochondria". I am certain that the doctors I saw agreed with them, but most of them were more subtle about it, telling me that I just needed to "exercise", "get a job", and "'get over' my depression" (I was indeed depressed, and am still taking antidepressants). One neurologist, however, told me, as he walked into the exam room, reading over my new-patient medical history form, before even looking at me, that he usually advised patients "who present with so many complaints that they should see a psychiatrist."

Even now, there are those who question just how much the hypoT and the MG are causing my symptoms, and how much is due to, well, me. My endo thinks that as long as my TSH and T4 and T3 values are "normal", then I am "fine". But this is the winner: Despite a positive SFEMG, my neuromuscular specialist doesn't think that my muscle fatigue and weakness are caused by MG. I have been suffering from chronic double vision for two years, so he is willing to "grant" me a dx of ocular-only MG, but he does not yet believe that I have generalized MG, because his clinical exam of me at my first appt. (in the a.m.) was "normal" with respect to muscle strength. "Normal"??? I can't even take a shower every day any more, never mind doing any cooking, cleaning, or shopping. He seemed to think that because I could get out of a chair without using my arms (at that one appt., which, as I said, was in the morning) and was able to climb some stairs down the hall (which I often can't do), I could not possibly have generalized MG.

Do even the most severely disabled MGers just wake up one day, or week, or month and find themselves completely incapacitated? Isn't it a fairly gradual process? Isn't it possible that I have what might be clinically called a "mild" case of MG, but it is still generalized?

The n/m guy must have "gotten to" my endo, because when I saw the endo about ten days ago he started questioning the extent to which my muscle weakness was truly caused by MG. He ordered blood work to rule out myositis, which I don't think I have. I really think it is MG, complicated by hypoT and fibromyalgia.

Does it make any sense to you that when I got the positive SFEMG result, I actually felt "happy"?? Finally, after all those years, I had a diagnosis that was "legitimate" in the eyes of everyone (hypoT and fibro were not deemed to be so), and now even that is being questioned by the so-called "experts"?? I don't think I even have to ask you if you understand how frustrated I feel right now.

This is such a coincidence, Linda, but we are just about the same age (I'll be 49 in August). I wonder if our age and gender are why we have not been taken seriously by so many doctors in recent years.....

Speaking of age, I went into menopause at 46, almost three years ago. I was dx'ed with osteoporosis, not "-penia", at the same age. My endo did say something interesting to me at my recent visit. He believes that my relatively early menopause was due to an autoimmune reaction against my ovaries. Apparently, some research is being conducted right now to look into possible a/u disorders affecting the ovaries.

At any rate, returning to my original question in my original post, I truly appreciate your sharing your own journey with me. Thank you for understanding my frustration and for your excellent advice. It never would have occurred to me to e-mail the heads of Immunology at my area teaching hospitals, before wasting their time and mine in making appts. to see them.

The big question is "Should I tell Drs. N/M and Endo first?"

I can't believe that you're just now having a lupus work-up, having been so sick for so long, and having such a high ANA (my highest was only 1:320, and I've been tested probably a dozen times over the years for lupus).

And what conclusions were drawn about your abnormal MRI? With the presence of the white lesions, I would have thought that MS would be a likely dx. (Have you had any EMG studies yet, or will they be part of your MG work-up?) But what do I know? I have MG, but I really don't have MG!! Along with everything else, it's all in my head....

You sound so sick and so desperate, Linda, and I wish there were something I could do to help you. As horrible as I feel, I am not in nearly the same shape that you are.

I do wish you tons of luck at your appt. with the immunologist and with your pending and upcoming lupus, MCD and MG work-ups. You will have your answers soon, and, yes, you will live a long, happy, and productive life!! When you feel down and become convinced that such a future is not meant to be, please know that Pat in NJ is cheering you on and praying for you.

If you don't mind and are up to it, please keep me posted. I will be thinking of you often.

With warm wishes,
Pat

P.S Belated Happy 50th Birthday wishes!

P.P.S. Have you considered exercising?!?!?!

 
Old 05-31-2004, 06:47 PM   #5
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Re: Should I see an immunologist, and how do I find one?

Hi Pat,

I'm glad when I can be of "support" to someone going through the agonizing journey of chronic illness since I am too and we often just need a listening, sympathezing ear... as opposed to a brush off like: it's probably depression, stress, etc, etc, etc. or as you said... you need to get out more, get a job, exercise more or just get over it... or the hypochrondriac diagnosis... ha.. I am a thinker by nature and ramble a lot sometimes so never know how folks are going to take me...!

I too have been helped by responses here and tho more often than not as of late, I am just too tired to even respond.. glad I can return a caring deed whenever possible... There is much courage and resiliency to be learned of and learned by reading posts in this board...=)

I too have recently been diagnosed with fibromyalgia and it is NOT a "fictitious or made up" disease as one doctor said but a very real entity. Just think of how many of the today recognized (by the medical society) diseases were however many years ago never even thought of and then had to go through being "officially" deemed REAL by, like you said, the so-called "EXPERTS" before being accepted... (the experts are the ones who lives with illness and why, just why in the heck do they even have the gall to think we WANT to (FOR ANY REASON) have to keep going to them for illness.... ! If we just "learned to live with everything... we'd not have the so called "modern" medicine that we have today... and they wouldn't have their current job..>! Learning in whatever area of life is a lifelong process!

I too suffer from chronic double and blurry vision and often just about collapse trying to climb the basement stairs... wow! I had a hysterectomy last year due to massive fibroids (I had 6 surgeries last year). I have Interstitial Cystits (which is suspected to be autoimmune related), had stoneless gallbladder disease (which is only seen in about 5% of gallbladder disease cases and thought to be autoimmune related), gastrointestinal problems, IBS, erosive esophogitis, recent kidney problems (was in ER for this 2x a few weeks ago), and anemia too... but don't ya know..... I'm just stressed, and depressed... Welllllll DUH...! I got to the point where I like to say that now..."uh... yeah, with all this going on, I think I have a right to be... Do you really think I've always been this way, so it's normal for me, and I'm racking my brain, my pocketbook, risking losing my job (when I still worked) and time out of my life trying to figure out what is wrong just for the heck of it...? @^%#*^$%(*&&(#$#@^$#^%@$

It is widely thought that autoimmune disorders are at the base of many things now... makes sense to me...! As far as getting out of bed without using your arms... some doctors just seem to not consider the fact that the small, very short amount of time you see them is rarely indicative of how you are able to perform on a sustained daily or regular basis. They send you to a psych doc for a half hour (at most) to test your ability to think by asking you a few "DUH" questions ..... Well... some half hours are better than others depending on how you feel at any one given moment! and to be ill.. you do not have to be laying on the floor at their feet for goodness sakes ! uh......or do you....?

As far as answering much about MG right now, I still haven't researched that too much (I like to research) but I'm sure other things going on in your body can aggravate it just as with any disease. But I did read that MG gets better with rest so getting out of a chair w/o using your arms is certainly not of any significance. Where in the world do some of these doctors get their licenses...??!! Ok, ok... I really do try to remember that that doctors are just people too.. who get tired, only have so much time and deal with life just like we do... That's why I like to research a lot. I find I often know much more than they do... about a certain condition but then... it's my body and I have to assume some responsibility for that. I'm glad for the computer age...=)

I don't know... telling my PCP about seeing other docs depends on how I'm feeling at the time. He doesn't really seemed affected unless it is something he has recommended. Of course, if & when I have to go back to my PCP, I let him know what's going on... since one doctor really does need to know at that point what the other has found (or not found).

Haven't had an EMG ... yet... MRI's were done for suspected MS but with neg. spinal taps...pretty assured not that. And tho, I have thought from beginning (several years really with me too) that I might have lupus or something like lupus, they concentrated on the MS possibility for the last 18 months more... I had a ANA of 640 last Aug. Then 160 this Feb. which the rheumy shrugged and said was probably due to Hashimoto's. BUt then when it came back 2560 in April, the neuro doc asked the head of immumology about it and just had more tests run for immune disorders last week. They wanted to send me back to the same rheumy I saw before but although, he is very nice, he specializes in RA, bursitis, ostearthriitis and gout and shrugged when I asked him about fibromyalgia (PCP diagnosed that)... I told them I wanted to see someone whose interest and #1 specialty is immune related diseases such as SLE, MCTD, etc. and they wouldn't give in. So... I took the initiative once and got myself an appt. with the immumologist I spoke about who is at a renowned teaching hospital in my state. Then when they sent me the appt. (July 1) paperwork, I got on-line and researched just who this doctor is, etc. Given my ever increasing ill health, I simply do not want a "newbie" this time. I've spent enough time being bounced back and forth between and waiting for appts. with several doctors.

I don't know that I am in any way worse off right now than you or anyone here. When your sick, your sick! and after awhile, through the process, you begin to learn better what to do or not to do -- and like life... that's a never-ending (least til your dead!) process.

As far as exercise goes... I do walk when I can... sometimes I'm so fatigued (my muscles burn intensely too) I cannot shower or even brush my teeth... and I eat mostly, microwavable, frozen foods. I do get periods of "relative" feeling better... but they do not last long at all and I am learning to guage my activity carefully - to keep reserves for necessary shopping, etc. All it takes is just one day of "normal" activity (ignoring how I feel) and I'm usally laid up for days afterwards... ie. my son's graduation Sat. -- felt pretty good for it but really felt miserable yesterday and not too hot today.

Hey... just had a thought... when people say it's all in our heads, maybe we should respond with "well, now it seems if it were all in our head that we could just THINK it away..." hmmmmm...?


Thanks for the birthday wish. =) And I've always heard you were supposed to fall apart AFTER 50... not before...=)

Will try to keep in touch... Here's hoping & prayers for you too... : angel:

Take care...Linda

 
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