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Old 07-03-2008, 05:58 PM   #1
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CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

Hi fellow Mav'rs,

There is a symptom typically associated with "mal de debarkment", where people have the illusion that the world is shifting around, making it difficult to keep their eyes fixated on an object they are looking at. When they look at the object, it feels like their eyes are possiby "slipping off" the object, even though their eyes are not visibly moving to anyone examining them. Usually, the further away the object is, the harder it is to hold it still, and the closer the object it is, the easier it is to hold it still.

The point is, the things we look at always appear to be slightly shifting around. Could be left to right, up to down, forward to back, back to front, or any oblong way. it's just a constant shifting, which makes it difficult to focus your eyes on a particular object. Just to be clear, one particular object in a room doesn't move out of place, but rather, the entire room, or world, is shiftin and moving out of place, but anything we look at is difficult to hold in our field of vision. I believe this is called "gaze stabilization". This happens to mdds sufferers who debark from a cruise, airplane, or long car ride (longer than 2 hours) and is usually felt immediately upon debarkment. The shifting vision symptom has to have happened to you SPONTANEOUSLY as part of your migraine symptoms, and NOT as a result of exposure to motion. Here are the criteria:

1. spontaneous aquisition of "shifting vision", and subsequently diagnosed with "migraine" or MAV. the shifting gets BETTER when moving around, or when driving in a vehicle. If your vision WORSENS from movement, you most likely have oscillopsia, which is something different. If standing still HELPS your gaze, you have something else. You can't have gotten this symptom immediately following a plane ride, train ride, long car ride, cruise, or high speed elevator ride.

2. you can have the symptom intermittently. In other words, the symptom CAN come and go, but for the most part, it should be pretty constant, although there are reports of it lifting at certain times of the day, or for periods during the week or month, only to return again later.

That's it. Lastly, if anyone has successfully CONQUERED this symptom, please explain the circumstances of how the symptom went away. I can tell you right away, that there is a man who posts here who had this symptom for 3 years, then it just went away, only to come back 7 months later. I have a friend who was diagnosed with mav who gets this symptom at SOME point every day, but it is not constant. So it seems that it's related to the SEVERITY of the migraine. For me, this is one of my most annoying symptoms, so i'd like to look into it further, and see what else is going on out there. thank you to all who respond in advance!

Rich

Last edited by moderator2; 07-03-2008 at 06:37 PM. Reason: to change the title and text because polls and surveys are not allowed

 
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:00 PM   #2
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

well rich...i know you probably know my symptoms already, but i'll post here anyway

yes, my constant shaky, jumpy, jerky vision is still here--a year and almost a month later. i don't know if mine qualifies as the same "shifting" vision as you. it's so hard to describe this and to try to compare (or for me at least anyway).

a few examples of my vision....

i cannot tell if i'm in my car at a stop light---and it is windy--if the wind is shaking the light pole up and down or if it is my vision doing it.

it's almost as if you grab your outer corner of your top eyelash and just slowly move it up and down---that is how t hings usually appear. sometimes it's different if something is closer up than a bit further away. it's almost sometimes as if you look at the corner of a door entrance (for one example) is blurred by gas fumes???does that make any sense? just a weird illusion almost. like if you were in the desert loL! craziness-----is any of this how it is for you????

then sometimes it feels as if it's going with my heartbeat--then it goes all crazy. i can't really tell.

i don't know if any of this makes sense, but it has literally made me think i'm going insane. i just cannot see how this constant problem is caused by migraine, that is essentially not even there most of the time.

 
Old 07-03-2008, 08:41 PM   #3
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

well, let me follow up with another question then....for you, does it seem that your vision is affected only looking at certain objects, or only out of the corner of your eye? Or does the WHOLE WORLD, at ALL TIMES, appear to constantly shift around and move? That's really what I'm talking about. Not really something that difficult to describe. If you are having a difficult time piecing it together, it could be some other visual distortion. With this symptom, it just appears as though the world itself is acting like a cruise ship. It's moving around, and the eyes just can't seem to make anything stay perfectly still. The further away the object, the more obvious the movement. There COULD be some jumping, shaking, shimmering, and those effects along with it, but the one symptom that should be in common here, is that nothing is ever STILL. That's what I am trying to establish, and I have found 5 people so far who have this, and have migraine, and no exposure to motion (no mdds). Thanks Alexa.

The next time you are at a traffic light, try to pay attention to ALL of your surroundings, and not just the traffic light. You might notice that EVERYTHING is moving, or you might have described it right the first time, and it's simply that your vision is doing a bit of jumping around on you from time to time. that could be RELATED to what I'm talking about so i'm glad you mentioned it. I also have some vision shimmering, and some jumping from time to time, but the shifting/movement is constant

Rich

 
Old 07-03-2008, 09:15 PM   #4
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

ok..this may sound weird, but for me it can be different--some days worse than others. however, the movement---no matter what kind is always there and is CONSTANT--it has yet to go away for one whole minute since it all started so long ago. it has morphed actually. it kinda started like objects or what i was looking at would move away from eachother--for example...if i were to be looking at a picture framed on the wall....it would move toward me, and the wall away from it and vice versa. the world was constantly moving. now it is more shaky, jumpy, jerky, but some days i do have the slow sense of motion of like the walls or whatever in slow motion--in addition to the jumpiness. mostly, my whole range of vision--if say i'm looking across the hall at work--will be jumpy quickly back and forth from side to side--with the smaller objects having the shimmering to the borders of them....i don't know if that makes any sense. whatever it is, it's constantly disorienting and sucks--as you know. i had no long plane ride or boat ride before this...just the six flags thing about 2-3 weeks prior. that is it. and i've never had ANY migraine symptoms prior to this either--never really had headaches either....never bought tylenol. i've been flying on planes since i was 8 years old as well--not that it matters--or does it? so i still have yet to be convinced--until medication magically whisks these symptoms away--that it is all migraine....maybe i'm just being stubborn

Last edited by alexiwildchild; 07-03-2008 at 09:15 PM.

 
Old 07-03-2008, 10:08 PM   #5
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

sounds very similar alexi! thanks very much for sharing! i personally believe it's a part of the migraine. granted, i only know 5 people who have it, but i have read posts on other sites of many others as well, so i know its out there. lots of things can happen to vision in migraine. i am also suffering from a touch of tunnel vision 24/7 and its also very uncomfortable. are you still just taking the nort? ever think about trying to add a second preventative to it? topamax? verapamil? Dr. hain's approach, according to his site, is to use all three classes of migraine preventative if one doesn't do it alone. he'll use an anti-depressant, anti-convulsant, and calcium-channel blocker. you have the AD covered. maybe have a look at one of the other two? just a thought. Thanks again Alexi!

Rich

 
Old 07-04-2008, 07:06 AM   #6
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

Hi, guys--

I find it hard to focus well and gaze stability is not perfect, but I don't perceive the world to be shifting around me. I still can't watch quickly moving things, such as look out the side window of a car or watch lots of movement on TV.

For the first five weeks when I was having the acute vestibular attack, I could not read b/c I physically could not follow the words on the page (couldn't watch any TV either).

I've learned that I had nystagmus during that time--my eyes were moving around on their own, so they couldn't follow anything properly. I know I'm not having nystagmus anymore, but I guess the damage just makes it harder to focus until one heals or gets rid of the migraine problem. ???

Violet

 
Old 07-14-2008, 02:26 AM   #7
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

mine is the WHOLE WORLD, at ALL TIMES, appear to constantly shift around and move not even a secound still but i never was disembarked from any thing and alezi mine kind of worped into this too. it use to be that objects would pulsate back and forth to and from if you know what i mean now it is always shifting in all different directions back and forth side to side up down you name it shimmers like mirages in the dessert and sometimes it is with my heart rate ive had this for 3 and half years not a secound of relief and i am very pessimistic that it will ever go away doctors are in awe some think its anxiety etc. i just hate this wobbly world of mine if only i can be normal agian

 
Old 07-14-2008, 02:29 AM   #8
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

o yea richard mine is better with any kind of movement whether i am moving or the object is etc like watching tv riding in car running walking any thing even if i watch people or things moving it is better. also it is worse trying to focus on far away objects than it is for close but they both are contantly shimmering wobbling shifting shaking jerking or whatever you want to call it 24/7 this truley is a a living nightmare

 
Old 07-14-2008, 08:23 AM   #9
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

tbissell, have you been diagnosed with MAV?? If so, what medications have you taken in your 3 1/2 year nightmare?? have you tried Vestibular Rehibilitation Therapy?? I am trying to figure out if those who still have this horrible symptom have done all they can to get rid of it, or if it's just one of those symptoms that just seems to be unresponsive to any kind of treatment.

Rich

 
Old 07-14-2008, 08:26 AM   #10
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

I never had the "spins". I always explained mine to be a "shifting" feeling. I had 3 mini episodes of this and then one so bad, that my world did not stop shiftinf for 24 hours. It included vomiting, and of course the need to close my eyes. I landed in the ER and was DX with VN. The doc examined my eye movement and there was Nystagmus. My dx has changed several times since then with the final and correct dx of Migraine Syndrome or Non-Headache Migraine. I have not experienced this Shifting since then and that was 14 months ago. I think all my meds have raised my threshold enough where I still have some sx.
It was very frustrating though, trying to explain this "shifting" to doc. They wanted to keep calling it vertigo,spinning, and I had to keep correcting them!!!!

Pam 3

 
Old 07-14-2008, 09:10 AM   #11
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

If there was nystagmus Pam then you had something else. With this symptom, there is no nystagmus that can be seen, even with frenzle goggle examination. I'm sure the symptom you experienced seemed very similar, but this symptom is something that plagues us 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and never stops for some reason. Some people have been going on for years this way. Mine has been going on for almost 6 months straight now. I am considering going to a balance center that understands these visual phenomena to see if there are any visual VRT exercises that can overcome it. I have a feeling that the brain has a "crises", and somehow just never compensates in this regard. I would imagine that VRT is needed. I am also trying to establish if anyone here with this symptom has ever done SERIOUS vrt for this and really stuck it out tooth and nail and weather it worked or not. I know there is at least ONE member, i think her name was linda, who did VRT for this symptom, and recovered. I think the exercises were called "gaze stablization" exercises.

Rich

 
Old 07-14-2008, 10:33 AM   #12
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

Then I wonder if the doc was right with the initial dx when he said VN. The only thing is that my recent doc thinks I never had VN because I had no inner ear damage with the attack. I remember asking for VRT anyway just to see if this would help me recover. The doc sent me to a PT and she put me on a program. She had a hard time getting a program for me because the series of tests she put me through showed no issues. She gave me gaze stabil exercises to do. I continued to get worse sx. it was shortly after that I found out we had a family history of Migraine and then the case was settled. I had MAV...so I began the nortriptalyne and stopped the VRT because it really aggrivated the movement sensation. What are your thoughts on what my big attack was?

Pam 3

 
Old 07-14-2008, 11:14 AM   #13
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

Pam, how did all of this start?? what happened to you, and under what circumstances?? Was there any stressful situation at the same time, or did this sort of just come out of the blue??

Rich

 
Old 07-14-2008, 01:18 PM   #14
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

Hi Rich,

Long story short, I noticed a woozy head feeling. Started off slowly and then began to increase in the times it happened. very stressful time in my marraige, 3 teen boys, harmones,lack of sleep, eating horribly etc. I had alot of the sensation that if I turn my head, my brain keeps on moving, this began to increase in times per day as well. I had the 3 shifting experiences where I began to feel that everything was off kilter and then the shifting. 3 of those lasting maybe 5-10 mn each time. and then the last one began while I was in the shower. I had that feeling that I would get before each shifitng experience. I tried to focus and slow my breathing down. I couldn't hold my eyes still in one place. I managed to get out of the shower and then began vomiting. Everything was bothering me, my neighbor who came to help had on tons of perfume. every time I smelled that I would vomit. I called 911 and went to the ER. They asked if I had a headache, I said no. I was checked in and stayed over night getting fluids and much Valium, which was my 1st doc's protocol to help get over the VN.
So in a nut shell, that was really the beginning of my story. I got the book "Heal Your Headache" and realized that in fact I had had migraine sx for years and didn't realize that it was due to migraine. I had lots of nausea most of my life, sensativity to smells, 1 major, major headache in my early 20's etc. and a family history of migraine. When I was getting no where doc to doc, I kept reading the info on MAV and this seemed to fit me to a T. where the VN never seemed to quite be it.
So, I have been on Migraine Preventatives for about 7 months now and am about 95% better than I was!!!!!

Pam 3

 
Old 07-15-2008, 01:56 AM   #15
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Re: CALLING ALL MAV'rs - "shifting vision" symptoms!

Individuals not likely to benefit from vestibular therapy include mainly persons without a vestibular problem, for example:
low blood pressure
medication reactions (other than ototoxicity)
Migraine associated vertigo (although it has been reported to be helpful nonetheless, e.g. Whitney et al, 2000)
Transient ischemic attack -- TIA
There are some conditions where it is not clear whether rehabilitation is helpful, but it seems likely at this writing that it is not helpful, or if beneficial, it might be a minor effect.

i just read that so if it is mav vrt wont benefit one of my dx was mav but i have so many they just dont know what it is i have had a referal to audiologist cause now it might me vertigo and vrt exercises can do that now but i just had a baby and would perfer to stay with her. i ve tried topamax and some beta blocker called propanol nothing worked nothing ever does i am afaid iam going to have to accept the things i cannot change even if it is a dizzy world sadly i am tired of going to doctors 3 and half years will do this

 
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